My own rebuttal, and an MHAnnouncement

[Sorum]

Part I

Going into GWIII, I was Consul of the Blue Turtle Alliance. I was MD's right hand man, and I worked hard with him to grow BTA. We were friends, and I went to war under the impression we had an ODP with GATO. Hah, turns out we got screwed by MD and his invisible treaty.

Left sitting in ZI as CIS pulled out a beatdown on us, MD walked out on negotations. In my mind, that abandonment of his alliance when it needed him most, leaves him no right to claim the AA now.

As I stepped in to negotiate for BTA (with the help of my co-reformers Count Rupert and +Zeke+, and general CN badass CptGodzilla), CIS demanded that MD be permanently banned from BTA. As BTA govt at the time, I signed off on this without hesitation. He deserved it. Since BTA simply changed their name to TAB, and was never disbanded, it makes sense that TAB would keep to the agreement made: that MD would not be allowed into BTA.

E-lawyering aside, MD simply does not deserve to remake BTA. He walked out on the alliance, leaving us to pick up the pieces. If Count Rupert, or even the current TAB govt wanted to remake BTA, I would back it in an instant. Because they put the work in to ensure that BTA/TAB stayed alive. They earned the right to choose to revert to the old alliance name.

BTA is more than just a name. It's an alliance of like-minded people who shares similar opinions on CN politics and how they want to play the game. That now resides in TAB. BTA is TAB.

At the end of the day, history has spoken. MD will run BTA into the ground just like he did the first time. But the matter at hand - should MD be allowed to reform BTA? Sure, he can reform it. But if TAB chooses to attack for it, he shouldn't have anyone but himself to blame.

Part II

MHA have long been close allies of TAB, and stand strong in support of them. We hope that a peaceful resolution can be reached, even if Francesca can't help but hope for a war.

[23:10:45] <Francesca> I've had enough of boredom in CN.

[23:10:55] <Francesca> BTA needs to be attacked already.

[23:11:01] <Francesca> Then we'll put these new Karma values to the test.

This can be done without a FIREfight.

- Sorum

[Sileath]

I applaud this call for a peaceful solution and a clarification of MHA's position as a strong ally of TAB.

o/ MHA

o/ Sorum the Glorious

[King Xander the Only]

I still love you Sorum. But I also want to see a FIREfight.

[Jgoods45]

Very Well Said Good Luck to all parties on finding a peaceful resolution.

o/MHA

[aaannndddyyy]

Nice post.

I just want all this to disappear now.

<3 to everyone.

[Groucho Marx]

Very well worded, Sorum. Good luck to TAB and MHA on this.

[Starfox101]

Attack us. I dare you.

Otherwise, get over it, and go cry in the corner and think up some clever insults and jabs about MD's leadership ability. If you are so convinced he is terrible, and going to run it into the ground, why even bother attack us? Obviously, that's not going to happen.

[Matthew Conrad]

Sorum I believe you handled this as well as can be. While it would be interesting, I doubt anyone truly wants a war here for such an easily reconcilable difference in opinion. And Francesca... why? I thought you were knee deep championing Karmic values seeing as you left VE immediately after the terms were presented in what you thought would be a symbolic gesture, as misguided as it was.

[crushtania]

I hope we can put this all to bed soon. So I can go to bed soon.

o/ MHAil

[Wa Mu]

Attack us. I dare you.

Otherwise, get over it, and go cry in the corner and think up some clever insults and jabs about MD's leadership ability. If you are so convinced he is terrible, and going to run it into the ground, why even bother attack us? Obviously, that's not going to happen.

Now, Starfox. I can simply not believe you are saying this. Sorum not once called for war. On the contrary, he called for a peaceful resolution. Even Commander John called for no war. Do better than a "No u."

[Sorum]

If you are so convinced he is terrible, and going to run it into the ground, why even bother attack us?

Thus why we aren't attacking?

[aaannndddyyy]

Attack us. I dare you.

Otherwise, get over it, and go cry in the corner and think up some clever insults and jabs about MD's leadership ability. If you are so convinced he is terrible, and going to run it into the ground, why even bother attack us? Obviously, that's not going to happen.

Best. Post. Ever.

Sarcasm? You be the judge.

[SunnyInc]

Part I

Going into GWIII, I was Consul of the Blue Turtle Alliance. I was MD's right hand man, and I worked hard with him to grow BTA. We were friends, and I went to war under the impression we had an ODP with GATO. Hah, turns out we got screwed by MD and his invisible treaty.

Left sitting in ZI as CIS pulled out a beatdown on us, MD walked out on negotations. In my mind, that abandonment of his alliance when it needed him most, leaves him no right to claim the AA now.

As I stepped in to negotiate for BTA (with the help of my co-reformers Count Rupert and +Zeke+, and general CN badass CptGodzilla), CIS demanded that MD be permanently banned from BTA. As BTA govt at the time, I signed off on this without hesitation. He deserved it. Since BTA simply changed their name to TAB, and was never disbanded, it makes sense that TAB would keep to the agreement made: that MD would not be allowed into BTA.

E-lawyering aside, MD simply does not deserve to remake BTA. He walked out on the alliance, leaving us to pick up the pieces. If Count Rupert, or even the current TAB govt wanted to remake BTA, I would back it in an instant. Because they put the work in to ensure that BTA/TAB stayed alive. They earned the right to choose to revert to the old alliance name.

BTA is more than just a name. It's an alliance of like-minded people who shares similar opinions on CN politics and how they want to play the game. That now resides in TAB. BTA is TAB.

At the end of the day, history has spoken. MD will run BTA into the ground just like he did the first time. But the matter at hand - should MD be allowed to reform BTA? Sure, he can reform it. But if TAB chooses to attack for it, he shouldn't have anyone but himself to blame.

Part II

MHA have long been close allies of TAB, and stand strong in support of them. We hope that a peaceful resolution can be reached, even if Francesca can't help but hope for a war.

[23:10:45] <Francesca> I've had enough of boredom in CN.

[23:10:55] <Francesca> BTA needs to be attacked already.

[23:11:01] <Francesca> Then we'll put these new Karma values to the test.

This can be done without a FIREfight.

- Sorum

Well, it looks like whatever happens to MD will be too good for him.

Francesca buying into fights she does not understand, again? Never!

[Captain Flinders]

This is getting ridiculous. By changing the name to TAB, TAB is no longer BTA. Crazy I know, but stay with me here. When you change the name of your alliance you are no longer called or represent the name of the previous incarnation.

[George the Great]

A lot of the arguments on both sides make sense, and I'm not sure what to think about this situation. Luckily, though, (for me) this seems to be an issue involving former members of BTA and its founder. It's not really my place to lay any judgment at all on the issue, but if you guys (Ex-BTA/New-BTA) would like some help mediating, I wouldn't mind lending a hand.

Hopefully this whole mess ends well. Maybe a tea party will come of this in the future, one that is hopefully free of jam thieves.

[Starfox101]

Now, Starfox. I can simply not believe you are saying this. Sorum not once called for war. On the contrary, he called for a peaceful resolution. Even Commander John called for no war. Do better than a "No u."

That was in reference to this:

"But if TAB chooses to attack for it, he shouldn't have anyone but himself to blame."

[Wa Mu]

That was in reference to this:

"But if TAB chooses to attack for it, he shouldn't have anyone but himself to blame."

And who, so far, has given an indication that war will occur? From what I have seen, this will not happen and it will end up everyone hating everyone and doing nothing about it.

[Choader]

Everyone involved here has shared friends and allies, posturing is unnecessary, this dispute will be resolved diplomatically and peacefully. It pains us in FoB to see vitriol between allies and alliances we respect. All we ask is for TAB, MHA, and other concerned parties to recognize that while they may not view BTA as a sovereign alliance, others do, and we are behind them and their right to exist.

[Londo Mollari]

I wasn't around for GWIII, but I have known that TAB has always considered themselves as BTA as long as I've known them. Because I have friends involved on both sides, I wish for a peaceful and amicable resolution to this issue.

o/ MHA

o/ TAB

[Captain Flinders]

And who, so far, has given an indication that war will occur? From what I have seen, this will not happen and it will end up everyone hating everyone and doing nothing about it.

Who gave the indication? You guys did. You guys are you ones who apparently refuse to recognize their sovereignty. Now what that exactly means in practice is yet to be seen but it sure is calling them out. Don't be surprised when they react.

[Wa Mu]

Who gave the indication? You guys did. You guys are you ones who apparently refuse to recognize their sovereignty. Now what that exactly means in practice is yet to be seen but it sure is calling them out. Don't be surprised when they react.

First, please do not say, "you guys" when referring to TAB. Just say TAB. There are some in TAB who may recognize the sovereignty of BTA. TAB, as the alliance, doesn't. Thank you.

Second, all leaders of TAB have said no to war.

[Francesca]

Pfft. That was said in a rather unserious manner, and anyone who has been talking to me recently knows that I've been slightly drunk anyway. Perhaps more than slightly drunk. If I'd been putting effort into starting the war, do you think I'd have gone and demanded it in public channels? For God's sake, people.

[Captain Flinders]

First, please do not say, "you guys" when referring to TAB. Just say TAB. There are some in TAB who may recognize the sovereignty of BTA. TAB, as the alliance, doesn't. Thank you.

I assumed the leadership and those representing the alliance in public spoke for their people. Silly me*.

It doesn't change the fact that TAB is the aggressor in this situation.

*Not really. That's how things work.

[D34th]

Another topic about this drama? I will not discuss anymore if he have or not the right of recreate it, but creating more topics about it wont make one side right or the other side wrong. Use private channels to resolve it or start war and bring us some fun, karma war is so boring already

Edited June 29, 2009 by D34th

[Wa Mu]

I assumed the leadership and those representing the alliance in public spoke for their people. Silly me*.

It doesn't change the fact that TAB is the aggressor in this situation.

*Not really. That's how things work.

Okay, you still said, "you guys." It is an informal way of speaking for a group. As I said before, it would be better if you said, "TAB," instead. By saying that, you would express the idea of the leadership.