An Announcement from The Sasori Initiative concerning the War

[Augustus Autumn]

You fought well and have done what is both honorable and best for your members as a whole.

o/ TSI

Firrked, coming from you that means a lot. Terra Prime will never die so long as one of us remembers it. Don't become a stranger all of a sudden .

[Deruvian]

you all collectively peed in my cornflakes with this rampant hypocrisy. and i am very protective of my cornflakes.

the facts are, karma isnt all that it chalks itself up to be. the 'big' alliances in this are mostly going to get harsh terms and its going to set a dangerous precedent for the future. conversely, if they dont get harsh terms, theyll pop right back up and take back their spot in no time. in other words it's lose-lose as far as 'changing the world' is considered

What have we chalked ourselves up to be? Ask people who can consider themselves Karma and you'll have a million different answers.

If they get harsh terms, they won't be as harsh as the harshest terms the 'big' alliances have dished out in the past. If they don't get harsh terms, who's to say that they'll stick together after the war? Even if they grow back (they won't immediately get back to where they were as was the case with Polaris) then there's a good possibility that it'll add to the flavor of the multipolar world.

On topic, I salute TSI for an extremely honorable fight (from what I can tell). I don't know you but if it were up to me I'd help pay these reps which I believe you absolutely don't deserve. Congratulations on peace!

Edited May 5, 2009 by Deruvian

[Ghostlin]

I am sorry that TSI was not granted the opportunity to have their friends in Apocalypse represent them in the negotiations as I wanted in my absence, however, I would be willing to dig into my pockets to help with any tech deals from my own personal nation, and I am sure Apocalypse as a whole would be willing to take some of the burden off our allies hands.

We are glad to see that TSI is doing well and out of harms way, however.

[nish81]

tsi, a tech selling alliance? disgusting.

why?

[Smacky]

To me this war is about karma with a little K, as you've done so shall you receive, an eye for an eye, blah blah blah ect. I'll be highly disappointed if Q/1V alliances get light or non existent terms from the alliances they attacked in this war. That said, TSI didn't deserve this. There are many alliances who owe atonement for their bullying over the years. Ones in this fight only through honoring treaties and without a sordid past deserve better, TSI is owed respect for putting themselves on the line for their friends.

To NPO, TPF, GGA, Valhalla: The alliances lumped into "Karma" don't owe you !@#$, it's laughable to hear you scream about hypocrisy when someone on your side gets less then white peace. Who told you that we were all white knights fighting to bring love and daisies to the world? You collectively tried to pull out your garbage one too many times and got called on it. When your peace terms come around think about GPA. Think about NAAC. Think about VE. Think about GATO. Think about Fark. Think about LoSS. Think about Legion. Think about FAN. Think about BAPS. Think about MK. Think hard about the way you treated them, then try to honestly claim you deserve better. No one is going to make you destroy wonders, no one is going to install a viceroy over you, no one is going to force you to disband, no one is going to keep you in war for two years unless you want it. Even if you get the harshest foreseeable terms it won't be enough to repay your crimes. Be grateful for that and stop trying to pin arbitrary standards on Karma, it's a sad commentary on yourselves when you pout about us "being no better then you". We are better then you and no matter how much you piss and moan that wont change. I'll offer up my nation as an eternal tech and cash farm if any Cit or C&G alliance requires you to destroy wonders or requires your disbandment.

[Kevin Cash]

why?

because you guys deserve to be more than a tech farm. tsi is one of the most honorable alliances i've ever seen, and that response was just a low blow.

thankfully, it looks like many honorable people from across bob are coming together to offer their hand in assisting with your payment, so my fears perhaps are unfounded.

@smacky: fark? who gave fark harsh terms? oh yeah old school goons did... but wait, theyre dead... never mind the facts lets just pin it on someone else, these guys wont know the difference, they werent around for that

also i dont know if baps or legion will appreciate you using their name like that

Edited May 5, 2009 by Kevin Cash

[Smacky]

@smacky: fark? who gave fark harsh terms? oh yeah old school goons did... but wait, theyre dead... never mind the facts lets just pin it on someone else, these guys wont know the difference, they werent around for that

also i dont know if baps or legion will appreciate you using their name like that

Okay. you got me on Fark, they aren't a perfect example but NPO did have a part in that too.

Regardless of Legion and BAPS's current Stockholm syndrome, the fact remains that Legion was humiliated and viceroy'd and BAPS was perma-ZI'd by Valhalla.

[Joe Kremlin]

To NPO, TPF, GGA, Valhalla: The alliances lumped into "Karma" don't owe you !@#$, it's laughable to hear you scream about hypocrisy when someone on your side gets less then white peace. Who told you that we were all white knights fighting to bring love and daisies to the world?

Well, Karma alliances have been saying things to that effect for a while now.

Think about VE.

iirc the terms were that VE leaves green. They chose to disband instead (didn't really fight for other terms either, not that it would have worked).

[mhawk]

Okay. you got me on Fark, they aren't a perfect example but NPO did have a part in that too.

Regardless of Legion and BAPS's current Stockholm syndrome, the fact remains that Legion was humiliated and viceroy'd and BAPS was perma-ZI'd by Valhalla.

You realize valhalla removed the leader that gave the order and elysium attacked him for his other "issues". The best and fastest way to fix things isn't always via conspired plotting behind false treaties. Sometimes it comes from frank talks with friends on contested issues. Your generalization of events is the cheap way to unleash an anger on parties less involved in "crimes" than one would be led to believe by the mob.

[boscher]

booohooo no white peace :'(

[mhawk]

Even if you get the harshest foreseeable terms it won't be enough to repay your crimes. Be grateful for that and stop trying to pin arbitrary standards on Karma, it's a sad commentary on yourselves when you pout about us "being no better then you". We are better then you and no matter how much you piss and moan that wont change.

I don't believe I've ever stated we're better or you're no better. I'd just like an honest assessment of my "crimes" which seem to drive you guys so far up the wall it's quite shocking.

[Augustus Autumn]

booohooo no white peace :'(

From someone who openly said they wanted to see the Initiative destroyed I find your mockery of my alliance and I offensive in the extreme. Should the day ever come when you and your chosen alliance-of-the-moment have been defeated on the field of battle I assure you that my behavior shall not resemble what you have shown here today.

Impero has shown the quality of the Viridian Entente - you, sir, are not living up to it.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tokugawa Mitsukuni

[nutkase]

I love this

KARMA bags out all the alliances that dumped treaties to avoid war. But when a alliance does honour a treaty, fights honorably and surrenders you ask for idiotic terms for a small NS alliance on the back of threats. All I see is profiteering

First time ever, I have agreed with RV

o/ TSI

[boscher]

From someone who openly said they wanted to see the Initiative destroyed I find your mockery of my alliance and I offensive in the extreme. Should the day ever come when you and your chosen alliance-of-the-moment have been defeated on the field of battle I assure you that my behavior shall not resemble what you have shown here today.

Impero has shown the quality of the Viridian Entente - you, sir, are not living up to it.

Sorry I'm not another fanboy of your alliance. I respect the players but I'm not sad to see you lose this war, and all this crying over reps for an alliance that supported TPF in every way they could is ironic to say the least.

[Kindom of Goon]

If TFO and IS didn't want to suffer damages you shouldn't have entered the war.

I do find it amusing that this has reached 16 pages for a handful of overpriced tech deals. The irony being something like this would have been virtually ignored in any of the previous global wars by both sides, with most saving their outrage for the 80,000 free tech terms. But hey, can't let an opportunity to call Karma hypocrites can we?

Edited May 5, 2009 by Kindom of Goon

[mhawk]

Sorry I'm not another fanboy of your alliance. I respect the players but I'm not sad to see you lose this war, and all this crying over reps for an alliance that supported TPF in every way they could is ironic to say the least.

I'm curious of these horrible actions TSI shouldn't have supported by TPF since the initiative formed?

[Augustus Autumn]

Sorry I'm not another fanboy of your alliance. I respect the players but I'm not sad to see you lose this war, and all this crying over reps for an alliance that supported TPF in every way they could is ironic to say the least.

Let's hope that you never find yourself tied to an alliance or series of alliances who have behaved questionably in the past toward others then.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Tokugawa Mitsukuni

[Max Rockatansky]

Yes, for all your bleating about not showing your enemies any mercy keep on crying about not getting any. We don't have nearly enough of that, you cowards. You wanted to fight, you got the fight. Take your medicine.

EDIT for clarity: This isn't about TSI, but about NPO and their dogs. I like TSI.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Max Rockatansky

[JBone]

The logs are correct. They brought it up as their terms, I went to Twisted about it and asked them to talk to them. However, for those saying it, I guess it was the original terms.

As for the RAD comment, yes, we can't handle a full offensive of RAD, and that was basically the reason we threw in the towel. I didn't want to bring that up, but if you want to, that's fine. We could handle TFO and IS, and wanted to continue the war. When you mentioned RAD, yes, I thought about my alliance, what that kind of attack would do to them, and what reps to a third alliance would mean.

So there, the reasoning for TSI's surrender, all on the table. I hardly think anyone could blame me.

Thanks for all the help Shuru, it was greatly appreciated, glad to see you have peace.

If you need a hand with the tech extortion, send me some links in game, I have a bit excess at the moment and would be glad to ship some to the new bullies.

[JBone]

I believe the overall and for the most part unified displeasure towards these terms do indicate a fresh way of thinking that karma as a whole has brought into the cyberverse. These were generally accepted in the past but are now being argued, which in my opinion is a lot better and an amazing step.

I eagerly await the next time crappy terms for an alliance are handed out, by someone fighting for the change Karma has so obviously brought to this world. We can all show our unified displeasure again. What a breath of fresh air.

Fresh way of thinking indeed, fresh way of acting.....not so much.

Change my $@!.

[Alterego]

Don't be too shocked. That was the going rate in the NPO market for their members up until relatively recently.

Whats good for NPO is good for Karma alliances.

[Kindom of Goon]

I eagerly await the next time crappy terms for an alliance are handed out, by someone fighting for the change Karma has so obviously brought to this world. We can all show our unified displeasure again. What a breath of fresh air.

Fresh way of thinking indeed, fresh way of acting.....not so much.

Change my $@!.

Come back and moan when you see pretty much the entire tech stockpile of an alliance extorted out of them along with the destruction of wonders

Yes, compared to the terms I've linked to, compared to the terms the likes of NpO and MK got, there is still pretty significant change. And oh look, that thread reached 4 pages and is mostly full of hails.

Edited May 5, 2009 by Kindom of Goon

[boscher]

Come back and moan when you see pretty much the entire tech stockpile of an alliance extorted out of them along with the destruction of wonders

Yes, compared to the terms I've linked to, compared to the terms the likes of NpO and MK got, there is still pretty significant change. And oh look, that thread reached 4 pages and is mostly full of hails.

Oh no we are just as evil as NPO/TPF now

[VIdiot the Great]

I am glad my friends in TSI finally got peace.

I will say that I think these terms, frankly, suck.

They honored a treaty, no less than many others were doing, and far more than some were willing to do.

Hail TSI, you're good folks.

If I can be of any assistance, please let me know.

Regards,

VI

[Sir Keshav IV]

Congrats on peace. The reparations are a little harsh but nonetheless good luck on rebuilding.

EDIT: All the whiners, you know Hegemony would probably have given worse surrender terms if TSI had entered the war on the losing side. The entered a treaty, so did Athens, so did C&G and NpO in WoC. You all saw how that ended didn't ye?

Edited May 5, 2009 by Sir Keshav IV