Kevin Cash

indeed, but the lack of other very large alliances, notably iron, i would argue, could indicate that you are trying your best to make the rorschach test look like what you want it to besides that minor point, it was more-so directed at those claiming 'hey look npo kills all the big alliances' as if that is the only explanation for the pattern seen, which consists of merely 4 data points over a three year span. the stats are indeed cherry-picked as it does not include other major alliances for comparison purposes, again, notably, iron. please expand it, as critical as i sound, seeing three years of data plotted is incredible, and i commend your work, but still ask that more be included.

not your name, your title

either npo is evil and likes to take them out, or alliances tend to get rather $@y when they approach/exceed npo in strength. i tend to lean towards the latter. note that goons was not killed by npo but by polaris, who were actively working to undermine the political position of npo at the time.or you can chalk it up to coincidence, as much as people dont do that, there are only what, three examples of npo or its allies taking out a top alliance (of the 4 examples given), 1 of those (legion) was not a direct attack, and given the even sides in that war as far as ns goes, their fall was more the result of poor strategy both internal and external, more than anything else. also they were fighting fan, who can bring the pain even when they're getting curb stomped. which gives you two workable data points, fan and gpa. gpa has already been demonstrated to have had inferior growth and was $@y, and fan, well, if you know your history you know why fan 1 occurred, its almost silly to call gpa $@y in the same line. furthermore, we have the outlier of iron, who have been hovering right below npo since forever. i question whether unspeakable evils title has ever been more appropriate

in my eyes this shows at least with regards to gpa that it was not a war to 'claim the top spot,' even without whatever incident caused gpas drop before the war, npo was very clearly outpacing gpa by 2 to 1 or better after the formulas switched. simple growth plans would have regained the top spot without pr implications, so there was absolutely no reason for them to declare war as far as the data is concerned.which leaves politics, gpas many blunders, and admissions to this day by the leaders that they intentionally delayed their response to continuum issues due to un-neutral feelings of dislike. basically, gpa thought they could use their reputation of neutrality and peace as a tool to do as they please. but thats all politics, which isnt nearly as easy to work with as the raw power held in numbers.

the lack of gun pron in this thread is disgusting.

i wouldnt say they organized it, but they were certainly happy to plunge a knife into the backs of their allies in a bid for power.

fan has by far the biggest pair on 'em out of anyone in this world, and i have nothing but complete respect for them.

well this is certainly change in cn, but i wouldnt argue that it is for the better.heres an idea: lay off the guy. you already badgered himself into not defending his current livelihood, as despicable as that is of you lot to do, but now when he tries to correct your blatant ignorance you start to throw around threats because, holy crap, used ultra big font? the horror anyone who had the slightest doubt about karmas true nature should be clear on things now. you dont stand for anything at all, its just a mask you use to rally the gullible to your side as you make a bid for power. the fact that you cant feign sincerity before the war is even over speaks volumes about where digiterra is heading.

you mean like the way tfo cried at the start of this war

ad hominem attacks do nothing to weaken my point; rad is still just as pathetic as they were before you decided to attack my character instead of my argument

i think its funny that some alliances like rad and tfo have trouble pulling off a curb stomp. i mean sure its not like karma has had a lot of practice with it, but this should be easy guys. you shouldnt get to the point where youre asking for help from people you dont even have a treaty with. that is just sad

congrats karma, i am eating my words. with the exception of the npo, gga was the last alliance i expected to get off with any sort of light terms, and they probably deserved crippling terms more than anyone. to see this... well, it shows that (most of) karma is serious about ending the past cycles of extortion. im not exactly sure why athens alone got reps in this. in my opinion, demanding reps from anybody besides the primary aggressor (in this case npo) and demanding payments to anyone besides the primary victim (in this case ov) is still extortion, unless there is a detailed reason that these are for a historic crime committed by gga against athens in the past. im reserving judgment until this war is finally over, but if karma keeps doing things like this, well, perhaps they are serious about change. or perhaps they're trying to make friends in time for citadel vs superfriends, but only time will tell on that one, won't it

the ooo you mean? i was under the impression that npo was just acknowledging the fact that polars treachery from the unjust war onwards had rendered it a one-way treaty

even if you did strong arm loss into granting white peace, i do not think that is such a bad thing. loss should have known better than to demand reps from an innocent alliance, one who was only defending their allies, and whose history is near spotless, much more so than most of karma.thats assuming loss even wanted reps, i am not privy to private conversations, but if they did i think it funny considering that switch they pulled right before the war, that they would further demand reps from the side they abandoned

nukes are used in tech raids to end the raid and make the nation pay up. i see no difference here. your protectorates bit off more than they could chew by entering this war, they cried to you for help, and then you extorted their opponents.there is zero difference, and your attitude towards tsi in this thread does not incline me to believe otherwise.

ive been an observer for some time. i need not possess a nation to be an observer. trust me, i am well versed on history. so people like the ccc were mistreated by tpf? no, the reason im not taken seriously by you is because i dont stand behind the karma agenda. make no mistake about that. i know how things work around here, which is why i always found it amusing how much people whine about casus bellis as they rarely if ever are more than a grain of sand in the clockwork of cybernations. half of those now on your side were, right up until this war, a part of the 'hegemony,' will they also be held accountable for their actions, or do they get a free pass for ditching their allies? the argument is 'poison clan didnt break the treaty because they broke the treaty.' this argument does not even follow as a logical statement, it contradicts itself, it is nothing less than absurd. clauses like that are included to absolve the other party of obligations should one decide to break their promise and their word. i do not support any alliance ditching their allies for any reason. i do not support those past actions nor do i support the dame dishonorable and cowardly acts carried out today. though i will note as far as npo goes, polaris betrayed them and put them in a very tight spot. they clearly made the wrong decision in abandoning their allies, however, it was not a cold calculated decision like most other cases, so i reserve a little bit of judgment towards them specifically.

address my points and not the age of my nation pleasealso try not to contradict yourself in the same line (bolded) ok ok i promise this is my last post for real. [ooc]night all dont get too worked up about pretend politics... though knowing how things work round these parts thats not likely to happen [/ooc]

see now youre just making stuff up as you go. i thought this was about tpf/pc relations, when i call you out, you change the details and claim you were right the whole time. thats bull**** this is more bull****. 'hegemony' is not perpetuating crimes right now. i could list fan, gato, a host of items from the gga, but it doesnt matter because none of it is the here and now. only this war is here and now, and o i criticize your hypocrisy. you say you stand against injustice yet perpetuate the same injustices as the past. oh, and you might want to take note here that i hardly support every action the 'hegemony' has made. instead of making things up about me. i admit it, i laughed. youve got a great stand up routine here man. honoring treaties! haha! the actions of every leader of pc from since its inception. thats what im referring to. pc are arrogant and hateful, full of malice and with zero sense of honor. i think it funny that you have yet to directly deny that claim i make.ok now im really going to bed i promise

i am a hypocrite because i didn't call out past crimes when my nation did not exist? please, give me a break.i dont think i can argue with you anymore. debates are fun and all, but it is mighty late to be wasting my time with someone who cannot scrap together a coherent argument for the life of him. good night.

so if both sides wanted this, why is it that only tpf are the evil ones here, shouldnt pc be getting an equal amount of scorn in that case? this intentional misinterpretation of what i said does not even dignify a response youll have to explain to me what you mean by 'nocb war' im sorry i dont speak karmite. though i do think it funny that in the same breath you state that there was 'no cb' and then that 'polar had it coming for a long time' im sorry that i cannot travel back in time to when my nation did not exist, so i can whine and complain about these events for you. i must be a hypocrite for that. i speak out against the karma hypocrisies because the karma hypocrisies are happening right now. im not sure what is so difficult to understand about that, but apparently, something is. my friend, it is you who are not getting it. i am posting about pc and their protectorates, and their conduct during this war, and how it is appalling that karma, who tout themselves as the bringers of light in this world, stand idle and watch if not support the despicable actions of pc and others during this war. this is not about hegemony, as much as you would like it to be. this is about pc. now stop dodging my points, or you may force me to look up the latin phrase for whatever logical fallacy you are using. and nobody wants that.

here's a crazy theory, but maybe, just maybe, it was in response to the continual arrogance and blind malice shown by poison clan? if the gov does not expel a member they are supporting the actions of said member. and yes, it is true that a leaders actions are the same as those of his alliance. so, tell me, what exactly is the huge crime tpf is being charged with here? not allowing themselves to be treated like crap by pc? trying to improve relations? oh, the horror. i heard that slayer got a bunch of folks off pzi, and even went to bat for fan... what shameful actions by tpf. i enjoyed the way you left out the trivial little fact that the people doing the attacks were the leadership of goons.

pretty much just blatant lies in the above quote. the only thing in the way of improved relations between pc and tpf was pc's arrogance. forgive me for calling you out on your hypocrisy? bleu was led by polaris, and if memory serves right, you all cried and moaned when they got rolled for their crimes. funny thing, that. its almost like youre willing to make friends with whoever winds up on your side, no matter how tainted their history. which only reinforces my point about poison clan. so two wrongs make right... no, even that tired phrase doesnt fit... what youre doing is harming one group of innocents because in the past a group you dont like harmed another set of innocents, and you somehow think it is justified. its like if i shot an innocent man on the street, and you pulled out your gun and shot another innocent man to somehow punish me. in reality, you are being pathetic, and even with the massive nation strength advantage held by karma, a number of you are even yet grasping for straws to put together some sort of weak argument to demonstrate how it is ok for poison clan to be as arrogant and blindly hateful as they are.

do you know what the phrase 'unwarranted self importance' means?true, you have always been an alliance that was defined by its arrogance and malice, but if you think that tpf dropped everything for an entire year just to crush you... wow, i just dont know what to say. if you want my honest opinion, tpf should have wiped you out when they had the chance. your alliance doesnt have a single redeeming quality, and you have contributed nothing of any value whatsoever to the world, except maybe one day you might be useful for target practice. they were far too merciful to grant you any sort of terms at all. and you repaid that mercy with this arrogance and hatred, and a knife in the back. karma, make me eat my words, show this classless scum that you do stand for change and that you won't tolerate this crap. show that youre not a coalition of convenience and you truly believe in what you say.

dead serious right now, if karma is worth anything at all, you are going to get rolled after this war, possibly even before its over.of course it wont happen, karmas tag lines and battle cries are just words of convenience, when it comes down to it you can be the biggest arrogant, malignant slimeball on the face of the planet, but as long as you stand next to karma they're more than happy to pat you on the back and tell you you have honor.

this is correct, poison clan broke the treaty by ignoring this clause and attacking tpf.what i think is incredibly amusing is the argument that 'poison clan didnt break the treaty because they broke the treaty' i mean, seriously?