Kevin Cash

see my above post, mha-npo treaty contained no such imaginary 'no chaining clause' and if you believe otherwise i implore you to highlight the relevant sections of the treaty that explicitly state that it is a 'non chaining' treaty.

highlighted interesting partsfirst read section a and section b. mha was not obligated to attack ov, however, when other alliances attacked npo, mha was to consider them as an attack on itself. i see no line in section a which absolves mha of this responsibility. some will argue that npo violated section c; this, now that i have the text in front of me, is obviously false; it is obvious that the npo was not extending a hand out for assistance with ov, and thus it was unnecessary, perhaps unintelligent but nonetheless unnecessary for them to grant 24 hours notification for the purposes of mha considering whether or not to opt in on the aggression portion of the treaty. most importantly, note the first bolded section of the treaty, which stats that this agreement supersedes all other agreements other than the continuum. other parts of the treaty not quoted here make mention that npo and mha shared an 'eternal friendship,' yet, mha did not afford npo the trust they deserved and instead chose to assume the worst in their so-called friend. mha violated this treaty on multiple angles; there is no imaginary clause that lets thm skirt around their duties, and it is clear that an 'attack on [npo] is considered an attack on [mha]' and as such when, for example, god attacked npo, they also attacked mha, or at least this treaty would have provided for such. thank you whoever it was that posted the link; i myself learned something new about how deep the levels of treachery within karma actually go.

npo didnt ask their friends to commit a crime, they asked they asked them merely and in general terms 'help us.'if i had a friend on trial for, even murder lets say, and it was far too early to figure out for myself exactly what happened, you'd bet i would defend him, and i wouldnt regret that decision no matter what the situation turned out to be in the end. thats the thing about friends, youre supposed to trust them. it is obvious that a number of alliances were so distrusting of their 'friends' that they were willing to assume the worst of them. that, to me, is despicable.

wait, they were all engaged in the war when og was attacked? what?also see my prior comments on this idea of 'non-chaining treaties.'

its rather obvious i think that they're simply using this as an excuse to rally people to the cause, when really its just a power play by the few in control of karma why do you think they get in such a panic when you point out their obvious and numerous hypocrisies?

its not against the codex. however, what is, and what disgusts me, is that they left their friends in old guard to get pounded. i dont know why so many people think treaties contain invisible clauses that state 'if you dont agree with x event that happened outside the parties to this treaty you can ignore your obligations"

'non-chaining' is just a term used by cowards who dont want to honor their obligations to their friends

you are a slow one arent you?do you know what the word 'coincidence' means? these issues were running long before gpa was a few points above npo in the rankings... this notion you have that npo went on red alert the instant gpa peeked over them in the rankings as if its the only thing in the world they were worried about, well, it makes you look foolish.

see raji's post below yours: "NPO wasnt on the losing side if people honored their treaties... MHA/Sparta/co all have MADPs with NPO " to add to his point, citadel failed to defend og when og was attacked, instead following gremlins when gremlins decided that an odp with fark was worth more than the codex. further points of interest are the absurd notion that npo ever gave a damn about being the number one alliance in terms of score (they were far more concerned with maintaining their role as the core of the treaty web), the omission of many of gpas screw ups in the days leading up to that war, and claiming that npo broke their agreement with fan (although it was a dick move on npos part, fan did technically break the word of the agreement long before npo decided to act on it) you can, of course, choose to ignore the facts if it suits your ends, but note that it makes you look rather silly

fact: moo screwed up royally by assuming talks were over, and assumed that this had been communicated to ov on account that ov had not made further attempts at communication with the npo when moo's internet connection crapped out. was it stupid on his part? very. does it mean he is some evil !@#$%^& who lies about peace to attack people when their guard is down? absolutely not. it was an honest, albeit extraordinarily stupid, mistake.

its called a self fulfilling prophecy. so many of you claim that npo has to be wiped off the map, that npo has no choice but to take an aggressive stance simply to protect their very existence.one could argue it is the other way around, that npo ultimately made unfounded fears come true... but i think that is unlikely, as people have been trying to take them down since the beginning of cn, simply because they were always at the top. it is therefore impossible to fault npo as they were simply defending their right to exist, it is people like you who drove them to the lengths they went, who instilled their fears that they had to commit such acts to defend their right to exist... as it would turn out, their fears were accurate and they are more than justified in their course. or you could keep spewing the mindless propaganda that npo are bad guys who do bad things for the sake of being bad with no further motivation... your choice i suppose

op is filled with so many distortions of the truth i am having difficulty responding its a viable strategy i suppose....

i think what we have here is the first case of an alliance hopping on the bandwagon after already being involved on a different front. id be willing to ignore it if it werent for the fact that youre so quick to service yourself by making it look like this is a fight over any sort of morality. new is in defending their friends while you are bandwagoning... if anyone has the moral high ground it is new. watching all the karmites hailing this bandwagoning is no real shocker, after some of the other !@#$ theyve supported

so did sparta, so did fok, so did gremlins, so did top, so did mha, so did a lot of other alliances now fighting for 'karma.' they all 'enabled' npo. why are they not also being punished?

the irony is that it is people with your extreme mentality that validated npos fears and caused them to act the way they did when ov conspired with blackstone, it is this mentality which affirms their fears that they were defending their very right to exist

those i listed 'converted' within a week of this war, some after it began, one still holds a treaty to npo. go back no more than a month and the figure easily doubles if not triples. since one of the recurring arguments from the karma side is that it takes time to convert (and thus allowing karma to conveniently ignore any and all recent honorable actions by the so-called 'hegemony' side), it seems silly that these 'newly enlightened' folks are allowed to get off scot free, does it not?

it will, but probably not against those actually responsible, much like npo has become a scapegoat for a lot of the bad stuff that happened in that war

youre supposed to declare on whoever of your allies is first attacked; if allies on both sides enter at the same time, you declare neutrality.because if you dont enter when youre first supposed to and wait until your allies wind up on the other side, standing with them doesnt mean jack !@#$, and bringing it up later is a logically invalid defense, as they would have all been on the same side had you any sense of honor. i havent recently read the exact timeline of events in that war, but im pretty sure \m/ was in there early.

sparta, mha, fark, gremlins, top, the rest of citadel (minus og), and of course who can forget our favorite alliance odnthese people ignored their obligations as well the only difference is they didnt make up for their mistake by later entering to atone for their mistake, each of them ignored their obligations to the so-called 'hegemony' side until the treaties on the karma side finally chained their way up to them so they could betray those who lifted them to the level they are at now (with the exception of the optional defense network who simply jump ship every time a big war comes their way) may i ask, margrave, what sort of punishment you have in mind for these people, who are arguably worse that those who atoned (ie admitted) for their mistake by entering anyway? or are they somehow justified because this thread only exists for you to rage at the other side for being 'evil' or whatever the hell it is you actually believe, and this is merely a convenient cover for your true feelings? i also enjoyed the part were you raged at the fact that innocent alliances who merely honored their word got white peace. what crime are these alliances guilty of, a number of them small protectorates who, ignorant of global politics, are entering to defend the only friends they know. seriously, the op makes you look like the biggest fool if one only takes a minute to read between the lines, but then, that was alwas who you really were, right, margrave? (in before ad-hominem attacks)

mha? sparta? fok? top? all of these alliances you just said are no better than npo (only listing the most recent cancellations right before this big war went down, though there are many others on the karma side going further back)

:slowclap:

the cowards always come up with a clever excuse dont they? mk went in that war expecting to be wiped out, id hardly make that comparison dont soil mks name, there one of a handful on the karma side who have honor (even if archon was a total dick to npo in those negotiations )

1) youre asking me to believe ctb, a gov member of poison clan... i dont see why i should, given that i am, you know, accusing him and his alliance of dishonesty among other crimes. though i suppose he was rather upfront about using rad as leverage to extort tsi... 2) even if they were having internal issues, a white peace would have granted them time to, possibly, sort out their difficulties. instead it is clear tfo was intent on extorting tp as they had later extorted tsi in the other thread (that other thread is what some would call 'evidence' but feel free to ignore the facts), leaving tp, in its severely weakened state, no choice but to disband sue me for putting 2 and 2 together

yes because tpf is the bane of existence and you stole pcs lunch money once so anyone who associates with you is scum who deserve to be extorted and/or killed off

in before someone claims this is just a show (congrats on peace guys )