the riddler Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Wow, you have it backwards.If TPF accepted peace before TOOL, then there would be something wrong with TPF. TOOL taking it before TPF isn't dishonorable in the slightest. Also, if this is so dishonorable, where were you in all the other threads where people surrendered before the people who they were defending? Is RoK this desperate to troll TOOL? [OOC]I do not spend my life in front of a computer. I quite frankly have better things to do than point out all the fallacies in the policies of alliances and bring out the lies.[/OOC] I am not in the government of RoK and do not represent the "official" stance. If TOOL honestly came to defend TPF then I would expect them to stick it out until TPF got peace. After all isn't that what a mutual defense treaty requires them to do. If TPF and TOOL are true allies then they would have went together in the peace talks as allies. I don't believe that happened here as I don't see TPF getting peace. As it stands TOOL still has a treaty with TPF. TPF will likely get attacked again and TOOL won't come to defend them. I'm just saying if your not willing to honor treaties, don't sign them. Edited April 30, 2009 by the riddler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derka Derek Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I guess peace is not what the people want, they want to watch alliances beat each other up until there's nothing left. The terms were very fair, deal with it. Why are you all complaining that we didn't give them ridiculous terms? What do you expect us to do, be another NPO? Oh yeah, we didn't surrender by the way, I was enjoying myself in that war. Edited April 30, 2009 by Derka Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I guess peace is not what the people want, they want to watch alliances beat each other up until there's nothing left. The terms were very fair, deal with it. Why are you all complaining that we didn't give them ridiculous terms? What do you expect us to do, be another NPO? Oh yeah, we didn't surrender by the way, I was enjoying myself in that war. I wasn't complaining, I'm quite glad TOOL managed to get out of a war they were on the losing side of with more or less positive terms. I think most of us are just puzzled, is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinite Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I'm going to go ahead and take the blame for the crappy wording of #5. I was in a hurry to get back to other affairs of state (ooc)the library was closing and I needed to be in it(/ooc). I kind of rushed things, and didn't want to spend much time with language. I'm sorry. It was clear to all the parties though. We had already declared on NPO, so the restriction in section 5 wouldn't effect us anyway unless we wanted to declare on them again and that's just silly. Just to be sure we put in section 8. It's not the cleanest language, but I really don't care, and I'm not sure why any of you do either. Edited April 30, 2009 by Trinite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derka Derek Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) I wasn't complaining, I'm quite glad TOOL managed to get out of a war they were on the losing side of with more or less positive terms. I think most of us are just puzzled, is all. No worries, that was not directed at you, it was directed at the general response to this thread, which was pretty much we chickened out. Although I'll admit this announcement's wording wasn't the best. It still got the point across though, some confusion came along with it is all. Edited April 30, 2009 by Derka Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimeMaster Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I guess peace is not what the people want, they want to watch alliances beat each other up until there's nothing left. The terms were very fair, deal with it. Why are you all complaining that we didn't give them ridiculous terms? What do you expect us to do, be another NPO? Oh yeah, we didn't surrender by the way, I was enjoying myself in that war. I think the expectation was that all alliances fighting on the 'Karma' side would follow terms along the lines of the POW surrender terms. You know, destruction of military improvs, disarmament, etc. That isn't viewed as harsh, and is usually the standard amongst most alliance wars. What you guys effectively did was let TOOL go with no negative consequences whatsoever, and with the promise that they wouldn't re-enter the war. That's a concession that I think people are having trouble with, considering that Karma is winning the war in general. You only give concessions if you're giving up, or surrendering. . .and you gave some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rentforfree Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I think the expectation was that all alliances fighting on the 'Karma' side would follow terms along the lines of the POW surrender terms. You know, destruction of military improvs, disarmament, etc. That isn't viewed as harsh, and is usually the standard amongst most alliance wars. What you guys effectively did was let TOOL go with no negative consequences whatsoever, and with the promise that they wouldn't re-enter the war. That's a concession that I think people are having trouble with, considering that Karma is winning the war in general. You only give concessions if you're giving up, or surrendering. . .and you gave some.Consider it this way: Sparta et al. could have kept the war going without peace. They probably would have won and driven TOOL/FnKa into the ground, completely destroying them. TOOL and FnKa were not going to surrender - they'd rather go ZI. But this way, TOOL gets to get out with relatively minor damage, and Sparta gets to get out and save all the nuking that TOOL would have done. Even if you know you're eventually going to win, eating another 800 nukes over the course of a month is not an entirely appetizing prospect. So it wasn't Sparta giving concessions to TOOL as opposed to saving themselves the large amount of trouble more war would have caused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaR Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I'm going to go ahead and take the blame for the crappy wording of #5. I was in a hurry to get back to other affairs of state (ooc)the library was closing and I needed to be in it(/ooc). I kind of rushed things, and didn't want to spend much time with language. I'm sorry. It was clear to all the parties though. We had already declared on NPO, so the restriction in section 5 wouldn't effect us anyway unless we wanted to declare on them again and that's just silly. Just to be sure we put in section 8. It's not the cleanest language, but I really don't care, and I'm not sure why any of you do either. Ah, so You're the one that misspelled your own name, eh, Trintie? Nicely fought to all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geiseric Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Consider it this way: Sparta et al. could have kept the war going without peace. They probably would have won and driven TOOL/FnKa into the ground, completely destroying them. TOOL and FnKa were not going to surrender - they'd rather go ZI. But this way, TOOL gets to get out with relatively minor damage, and Sparta gets to get out and save all the nuking that TOOL would have done. Even if you know you're eventually going to win, eating another 800 nukes over the course of a month is not an entirely appetizing prospect. So it wasn't Sparta giving concessions to TOOL as opposed to saving themselves the large amount of trouble more war would have caused. This holds some truth to it. We are warlike, but not to the extent of punishing others and ourselves beyond that is necessary. Edited April 30, 2009 by Geiseric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MudBug Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) edit: nevermind, explanation received. Edited April 30, 2009 by MudBug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crushtania Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Congratulations on gaining peace, all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Hrm. Edited April 30, 2009 by Druid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3nowned Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Yay peace! It was an honour to fight you guys o/ Honoured Enemies o/ DT o/ AO o/ Blackhorse I didn't fight any Spartan nations so... xd We weren't going to give in until we had some kind of surrender from the other side. The fact that TPF doesn't have to worry about the alliances that were in war with us is a small measure of peace I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandmdave Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Hmmm, really? So what does the following mean then: 4/30/09 New Sparta DoW's on NPO Clarification please? edit: to bold/highlight portion of quote 8 ) This agreement for peace doesn't effect Sparta's stance with the NPO in their current conflict. Clarified. Just in case though let me say it straight up. Sparta is still at war with NPO. That being said hastily written treaty is poorly worded. )): Trinite )): Edited April 30, 2009 by wandmdave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobama Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 As a Sith I am disappointed with the unfinished tasks this turn of events certainly leaves, and hope only that the vanquished allow their internal hatred and emotion to grow. It certainly would help to avoid situations such as these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhawk Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 [OOC]I do not spend my life in front of a computer. I quite frankly have better things to do than point out all the fallacies in the policies of alliances and bring out the lies.[/OOC]I am not in the government of RoK and do not represent the "official" stance. If TOOL honestly came to defend TPF then I would expect them to stick it out until TPF got peace. After all isn't that what a mutual defense treaty requires them to do. If TPF and TOOL are true allies then they would have went together in the peace talks as allies. I don't believe that happened here as I don't see TPF getting peace. As it stands TOOL still has a treaty with TPF. TPF will likely get attacked again and TOOL won't come to defend them. I'm just saying if your not willing to honor treaties, don't sign them. Graham and I had a talk before he went to talks. I told him he had my blessing for them to work out a white peace deal. They did what they could and that is all we can ask as allies. They didn't go behind our backs and I was well aware and approved of them seeking peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3nowned Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 o/ TPF I guess my only regret in this war is that I couldn't see it out till our allies in TPF got peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adhambek Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Good to see a honorable end to a pointless war. White peace? Pepsi, cola, ginger beer etc. I'm afraid your going to have to find a new beverage. Your propoganda effort just got a kick in the nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arentak Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 That seems like a pretty comprehensive peace treaty. I bet negotiating that took more then a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ty345 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I may be glowing, but I think it was worth it o/ FnKa o/ TOOL o/ The Brigade for being good opponents o/ Sparta o/ AO o/ DT *did i forget anybody?* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3nowned Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I hope we've proven that TOOL is no longer that paper tiger it was a couple of years ago. ty345, I think you missed Blackhorse, although they didn't exactly post a DoW... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Ilyani Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Congrats on peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willirica Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 ill refrain from going into detail as i was not part of the negotiations; lets just say im not overly happy with this treaty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCRABT Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Congratulations on peace guys you have all fought with honour. TOOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneBallMan Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 TOOL and FnKa are honorable and great friends to have. My sincerest thanks for your efforts. My congratulations to the victors in their graciousness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.