Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Cortath]

Indeed.

And no, we're open to white peace because that is what we want and what we deserve, assuming FAN is given the same. We just know you won't, so we don't pursue it.

You deserve white peace? *chuckles*

You deserve everything you get and more, and more will be given. Those who wish to destroy Pacifica will be themselves destroyed. Enjoy.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Cortath

[Hyperion321]

Hmm... I am delighted to know that despite the many times he and I have discussed the subject, and despite him being a good friend of mine, you have more knowledge on what the Emperor thinks than either he or myself does.

I don't think he claims to know moo more than you do, he is simply stating a personal experience of his that goes contrary to your depiction of moo's mercy.

edit: I guess I agree with the following post to a degree. Good job NPO. There I said it )):

I'm going to guess the purpose of the whole anti-EZI OWF campaign was to end EZI or at least make some significant changes. I'd say this right here is change, maybe not as much as you were hoping for, but still change.

Now you're all out here saying NPO's just doing this for PR purposes and hasn't actually changed their beliefs. Did you honestly think you were going to be able to change alliances like NPO, IRON, and TPF's beliefs on EZI and their actions? No, but what you have done is pressured them into making these changes, so accept your small victory and move on. You're not going to actually change their minds on what they think is right and wrong. Saying NPO is just doing this for PR purposes is not helping anything other than making yourself feel better.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Hyperion321

[Doitzel]

Hmm... I am delighted to know that despite the many times he and I have discussed the subject, and despite him being a good friend of mine, you have more knowledge on what the Emperor thinks than either he or myself does.

Oh, that's rich. The old "I know more than you so shut your mouth!" Boy, they're really schooling you well these days.

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> Session Start: Mon Jul 28 22:50:09 2008

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> Session Ident: Arcades057

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:50] <Schattenmann> hullo Arcades

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:50] <Arcades057> Hullo back.

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:50] <Schattenmann> I wondered what sort of ZI Doitzel is, do you know?

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:50] <Arcades057> I can check

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:51] <Schattenmann> Would you?

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:51] <Arcades057> Sure. Asking now.

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:52] <Arcades057> Perma-ZI

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:52] <Schattenmann> Thanks. I wasn't sure and I didn't want to embarrass him by asking or bother some IO about it either

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> [22:52] <Arcades057> No worries.

[18:30] <Schattenmann[Vox]> Session Close: Mon Jul 28 22:56:50 2008

Session Start: Wed Jul 09 01:47:22 2008

Session Ident: Moo-Cows

[01:47] <Doitzel> curious minds wish to know if I am perma-ZI or just "die until we feel like it"'d

[02:18] <Moo-Cows> probably the latter

[02:18] <Doitzel> that's encouraging

Session Start: Sun Aug 03 11:54:10 2008

Session Ident: Moo-Cows

[11:54] <Doitzel> answer me

[12:07] <Moo-Cows> the answer is no

[12:09] <Doitzel> you didn't even listen to my question

[12:09] <Doitzel> I hear I've suddenly become perma-ZI and it would be lovely to know why!

[12:14] <Moo-Cows> not going to answer....wouldn't want to be reported

He sure seems to give a lot of implicit support for it for someone who's always been against it.

[Electron Sponge]

hmm...

Yeah because attempting to goad someone into carrying on with a war that shouldn't have ended when it did is the same as keeping that same group of people at ZI for a year or so. Oh wait, no it's not.

Oh, so what you're saying is that Vox is only open to peace because they don't think they'll ever get it. It is thus not a real desire but a propaganda ploy. Still, worth it if only for this line: "Congratulations on fighting perpetual wars against several alliances because they've had the temerity to resist you by any means necessary!" Imagine that, fighting someone merely because they have the stated intend (or in some cases sole reason of existence) to destroy you "by any means necessary"! What monsters we are. Clearly when someone is punching you in the face you should hand them a sweet-smelling rose. Sure, they'll continue punching you, but won't everything smell pretty!

How do they say round these parts? 'lrn2propaganda'.

Resist=/=Destroy

You are the ones bringing war and destruction down on us and on anyone else who is unrepentant in their opposition to your position of global hegemon and the unfair and capricious nature of NPO policy as it relates to those who it deals with. Secret peace terms, whispered threats, and the more overt 'Sword of Damocles' clauses like what GATO, Jonathan Brookbank, and several others are subject to are non-starters as far as we are concerned. We will not subject ourselves to that and we do not believe that anyone else should either.

When the shoe is on the other foot we'll see how well you like its fit.

You deserve everything you get and more, and more will be given. Those who wish to destroy Pacifica will be themselves destroyed. Enjoy.

Please define destroyed for me.

[Wootmeister]

Just be careful of your actions in the coming days. Six or seven months down the road, Pacifica might use them as a casus belli.

It was a complete surprise to me we landed in hot water last time for something I had no knowledge of (as a gov member), I hope we can finally learn from this and not have our past haunt us anymore.

[Soccerbum]

You deserve white peace? *chuckles*

You deserve everything you get and more, and more will be given. Those who wish to destroy Pacifica will be themselves destroyed. Enjoy.

I can't believe I'm saying this, for I once very much disliked Vox Populi, but how much more can you possibly destroy?

[Rheebrosinc_1337]

congrats GATO, you're now free! lol

sweet deal NPO

[Vladimir]

And no, we're open to white peace because that is what we want and what we deserve, assuming FAN is given the same. We just know you won't, so we don't pursue it.

It's just a hunch, but I think that maybe, just maybe, the Emperor was quoting a well-known personality for comedic effect. Regardless, you cannot say "We will fight you by any means necessary to your bitter destruction! Down with you!... Somebody stop them, the meanies are attacking us!" Do you want to bring down the Evil Empire, or do you want to pursue peace and prosperity alongside the Evil Empire? Make up your minds.

I haven't seen anything this transparent since the Imperial Wet T-shirt Competition. I'll never look at Cortath the same way after that *shudder*.

[Doitzel]

You deserve white peace? *chuckles*

You deserve everything you get and more, and more will be given. Those who wish to destroy Pacifica will be themselves destroyed. Enjoy.

Do you realise how ludicrous that sounds? You're talking to Vox Populi, ally of FAN and OcUK, about how we want to destroy your alliance. Doesn't something seem a bit ... out of place? Namely, that for all the effort you've put into it, you haven't come close to destroying ours?

[Goose]

It was a complete surprise to me we landed in hot water last time for something I had no knowledge of (as a gov member), I hope we can finally learn from this and not have our past haunt us anymore.

Don't feel too bad. It was a complete surprise to us at The Commonwealth also. It became clear why you were worried when we read the Pacifican declaration of war though. I wish you well in your newly found freedom.

[Matthew Conrad]

I find it amazing that some people cannot offer a simple "good job" to the NPO as a result of this action.

Crowd: "Release GATO, you evil purveyors of world-wide hegemony!"

NPO: "Okay, we'll release them (and a few other groups/people of note)."

Crowd: "Haha! You caved! And no apology? What about this other alliance? You're just trying to save your skin!"

Okay, sure, push for more change, but celebrate the victories and applaud the positive changes as they occur.

This is a good thing but I believe that the public just believes there's still much progress to be had.

[Doitzel]

It's just a hunch, but I think that maybe, just maybe, the Emperor was quoting a well-known personality for comedic effect. Regardless, you cannot say "We will fight you by any means necessary to your bitter destruction! Down with you!... Somebody stop them, the meanies are attacking us!" Do you want to bring down the Evil Empire, or do you want to pursue peace and prosperity alongside the Evil Empire? Make up your minds.

I'm pretty sure we haven't entered any peace negotiations with you and continue to spy on you and your assorted hangers-on as you wage war on our nations. We simply threw out there that the only type of agreement we would accept is white peace for all of us and all of FAN and you dogpiled onto it for God knows what reason.

[Cortath]

See, the problem with Vox is simply one of immaturity.

Vox clamors for Free Speech, but what they really want is Freedom of Action. Their entire propaganda ploy has simply been to try to artificially conflate freedom of action with freedom of speech. Vox wants to be at war with the NPO -- they want to attack us with propaganda, with guns, with tanks, with everything they can throw at us, under the guide of "free speech."

And now that clamor for a white peace! They want to continue fighting their war against us, but without us fighting back. Vox: the choice is clear. Those who wish to destroy us and who indeed, actively engage in our destruction will be at war with us. You will have no white peace while you make war against us. You can't have it both ways. No alliance tolerates it.

Your actions of the past day demonstrate that our purpose was never "morality" or "justice" but simply a blind and mindless anti-NPO campaign. As many of your brethren so admirably demonstrated in the thread on the Imperial Decree from the Emperor, you've lost a talking point in your campaign, and you're upset about it. And in the thread where GATO announced its first treaty under its new sovereignty, again, Vox demonstrates that its real agenda was never "justice" or "morality" but simply to oppose Pacifica in all things, and rather than praise and congratulate GATO on its first sovereign act, you attack the GATO for making peace with a long-term enemy.

Indeed, because that, at the heart of the matter, is what Vox fears the most. Vox wants enemies against Pacifica. It cannot stand the thought that an enemy of Pacifica could ever make peace. And if there is an alliance who has been an enemy of Pacifica longer or who Pacifica has had a more violent history with more than GATO, then I would be surprised.

And that's what scares Vox. Because if GATO can become friendly with Pacifica, then anyone can become friendly with Pacifica. If GATO and the NPO can put aside their pasts and build something great and glorious together, a friendship out of a relationship that once was that of enemies, then anyone can.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Cortath

[Denial]

It was a complete surprise to me we landed in hot water last time for something I had no knowledge of (as a gov member), I hope we can finally learn from this and not have our past haunt us anymore.

I hope you have learned the ability to be omniescent, because that is what the previous casus belli implied was necessary. I think the important thing to learn from here onwards, if anything, is the quickest and most effective method of placing GATO in a position where Pacifican hands cannot reach.

[Starfox101]

You deserve white peace? *chuckles*

You deserve everything you get and more, and more will be given. Those who wish to destroy Pacifica will be themselves destroyed. Enjoy.

What makes me deserve peace, and what makes Doitzel deserve EZI? I have repeatedly taken arms against you. spoken out against you, and have in general, opposed you dating all the way back to before the First Great War. Not to mention I've stated I'd fight you still, if all of Vox was given white peace and we disbanded. I will never stop opposing you until you truly change, and don't just change for PR.

And Doitzel...leaked some logs?

I make him look like an angel.

[Dilber]

Just be careful of your actions in the coming days. Six or seven months down the road, Pacifica might use them as a casus belli.

Guess it's time for me to roll Vanguard for the way you were founded.

[Cortath]

[Weird double post]

Edited April 15, 2009 by Cortath

[Sir Donald R Deamon]

I make him look like an angel.

Thats not necessarily Doitzel's merit though...

[Denial]

Guess it's time for me to roll Vanguard for the way you were founded.

You can try.

[King Srqt]

Oh look more off topic Ad Hominem arguments toward sponge...if only there were a thread designed to make such arguments where it would be on topic...

[Electron Sponge]

Weird double post indeed. Weak, Cortath. Very weak.

Well, when I say "you," I mean you, Electron Sponge.

Ghosting is a tactic of war, and you will be attacked for it.

You mean I'm not just being attacked for being a member of an alliance already at war with NPO?

So, to clarify this, you're attacking people for using tactics of war? That's sort of... well, let's be blunt Cortath that statement was just plain stupid. I'm being attacked because of the war on my alliance, not because of my individual participation in that war. Should Vox Populi gain peace I assume I would continue to be a target because of the immense threat my nation poses to Pacifican security. I'll take that as a compliment that NPO fears my nation building skills so much that they need to keep me at ZI.

Or we could call it what it is, a flaccid and impotent attempt at harassing me until I decide never to come back. We've seen how effective that particular tactic is against my allies and me. All it does is throw your bank money down the memory hole and continually prove what we say about you correct.

[Doitzel]

See, the problem with Vox is simply one of immaturity.

Vox clamors for Free Speech, but what they really want is Freedom of Action. Their entire propaganda ploy has simply been to try to artificially conflate freedom of action with freedom of speech. Vox wants to be at war with the NPO -- they want to attack us with propaganda, with guns, with tanks, with everything they can throw at us, under the guide of "free speech."

And now that clamor for a white peace! They want to continue fighting their war against us, but without us fighting back. Vox: the choice is clear. Those who wish to destroy us and who indeed, actively engage in our destruction will be at war with us. You will have no white peace while you make war against us. You can't have it both ways. No alliance tolerates it.

Your actions of the past day demonstrate that our purpose was never "morality" or "justice" but simply a blind and mindless anti-NPO campaign. As many of your brethren so admirably demonstrated in the thread on the Imperial Decree from the Emperor, you've lost a talking point in your campaign, and you're upset about it. And in the thread where GATO announced its first treaty under its new sovereignty, again, Vox demonstrates that its real agenda was never "justice" or "morality" but simply to oppose Pacifica in all things, and rather than praise and congratulate GATO on its first sovereign act, you attack the GATO for making peace with a long-term enemy.

Indeed, because that, at the heart of the matter, is what Vox fears the most. Vox wants enemies against Pacifica. It cannot stand the thought that an enemy of Pacifica could ever make peace. And if there is an alliance who has been an enemy of Pacifica longer or who Pacifica has had a more violent history with more than GATO, then I would be surprised.

And that's what scares Vox. Because if GATO can become friendly with Pacifica, then anyone can become friendly with Pacifica. If GATO and the NPO can put aside their pasts and build something great and glorious together, a friendship out of a relationship that once was that of enemies, then anyone can.

See the problem with this nice little speech is we never faulted GATO for signing a treaty for you to piss on at your convenience. Or at least, I never did. It is clear that GATO signed the treaty out of political convenience to avoid any hostility, considering what they've been through. I think that's what people are upset about but frankly, I've got real injustice to worry about.

Guess it's time for me to roll Vanguard for the way you were founded.

Were you trying to make yourself look better by insinuating that you granted someone else mercy? That's rich. Just because I did not ride my bicycle yesterday does not mean I have never ridden my bicycle.

[Hyperion321]

You can try.

You guys unzip your pants. I'll go get the tape measure.

Edited April 15, 2009 by Hyperion321

[kobiashiy]

Great to here from NPO, GATO is free

[SonOfHoward]

This is great to see NPO. I hope you will consider signing ZIPP like the many other alliances who have pledged to discontinue the practive of EZI.