In the GATO

[Shimmer]

Gato deserved to be rolled. Not enslaved. If Pacifica ever gets in a losing war they are done. You can't enslave, disband and overcharge on reps in every war and expect a decent amount on your judgement day. Pacifica will not always prevail.

[animea90]

Or we realized a while ago that the best way to get things done in Cybernations is, you guessed it, private channels. For the win.

That was a very funny day.

--

Ultimately, as I said the last time a thread like this came up: GATO is making great progress right now. The Viceroyship is not stunting growth, but instead has helped us make our systems more effecient. More importantly, these kinds of threads will not help the Viceroyship end. That is an arrangement between GATO and the Viceroy staff. If anything, when they see threads like this, they'll continue the Viceroyship past when they would have ended it, so that they don't look like they're giving in to the pressure of the OWF.

So while we appreciate some of the good sentiments in this thread, and while we thank our supporters, those posters trying to use us as a rallying point or as a piece of propoganda are truly only helping themselves. But who's surprised by that?

If community opinion plays 0 part of NPO diplomacy then your correct. However, having the support of an allies(and your own) membership does actually matter. And if threads like this make people question why GATO is still being held, they serve their purpose.

Furthermore, I think it would be extremely immature of the NPO to make an entire community suffer because some people want them released. Its like the 8 year old who continues to play a video game just because other people want a turn. Do you really think NPO is that immature?

[kerschbs]

Unless you were a member of CSN, IAA, or USN or one of the few volunteers who tried to help us, you have absolutely no right to use GATO as a pariah for some good ol' NPO PR bashing. Not one of you stood up to object to our warfare then, and now that their may be a rift forming against NPO you speak up? It's a little ridiculous to see people caring about us all of a sudden when many of you in this thread participated in the war against us or our allies. I like the public support, but don't use us to support some cause we want no part of. Hell, I'm grateful for the work NPO has done to help us rebuild and I don't think any of you could understand what it has been like to be in our shoes.

Also

<3 Cata and Valkyrie9002

Edited April 12, 2009 by kerschbs

[animea90]

You can hold your beliefs. But I'd have to believe that GATO's elected representative most closely in contact with the Viceroy team would be the more informed of us two.

If the Viceroy team is such jerks that they will force their position onto GATO for longer just because of a thread by someone not a part of GATO, then they are not nearly as friendly and non invasive as some GATO members have been saying. If what you say is true, imagine what would happen if a GATO member started publically requesting freedom.

[Ragashingo]

Also

<3 Cata and Valkyrie9002

I get nothing?

[HeinousOne]

If the Viceroy team is such jerks that they will force their position onto GATO for longer just because of a thread by someone not a part of GATO, then they are not nearly as friendly and non invasive as some GATO members have been saying. If what you say is true, imagine what would happen if a GATO member started publically requesting freedom.

You know, you really do not have to imagine such a thing.

[kerschbs]

I get nothing?

Aww you know I got the loves for you too Raga.

[Greg23]

Wait you mean to tell me SDRD, cortath, and baka didnt join GATO, lies!!

Also what kers said x25 but with mor eloving and love for raga

[Cataduanes]

GATO deserves better than verbal bullying. There isn't even a W or an E in GATO, much like GPA, which was also plastered with that horrible epithet of "WAE."

Yeah well try telling that to the guy from TOP or any other person willing to take cheapshots at GATO's expense...somehow a combination of prejudice and thick headedness makes it difficult to get these sorts to try change their opinion

Some(like Po Pots Camer(SP?) Rouge) have arguable been much worse and were completely unpunished.

sp=Khmer Rouge

Unless you were a member of CSN, IAA, or USN or one of the few volunteers who tried to help us, you have absolutely no right to use GATO as a pariah for some good ol' NPO PR bashing. Not one of you stood up to object to our warfare then, and now that their may be a rift forming against NPO you speak up? It's a little ridiculous to see people caring about us all of a sudden when many of you in this thread participated in the war against us or our allies. I like the public support, but don't use us to support some cause we want no part of. Hell, I'm grateful for the work NPO has done to help us rebuild and I don't think any of you could understand what it has been like to be in our shoes.

Also

<3 Cata and Valkyrie9002

kerchbs and Raga

I would happily send my nation to ZI for GATO again if needed :jihad:

Edited April 12, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Yeah well try telling that to the guy from TOP or any other person willing to take cheapshots at GATO's expense...somehow a combination of prejudice and thick headedness makes it difficult to get these sorts to try change their opinion

Hold on, I meant it simply as a jesting term of endearment and not with any malice aforethought. Obviously the content of this thread is very serious business indeed, and I've misjudged the tone of the conversation we are having here. If I caused you offence by using that moniker, so be it I suppose, twasn't the intent of the point I was making.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[animea90]

Unless you were a member of CSN, IAA, or USN or one of the few volunteers who tried to help us, you have absolutely no right to use GATO as a pariah for some good ol' NPO PR bashing. Not one of you stood up to object to our warfare then, and now that their may be a rift forming against NPO you speak up? It's a little ridiculous to see people caring about us all of a sudden when many of you in this thread participated in the war against us or our allies. I like the public support, but don't use us to support some cause we want no part of. Hell, I'm grateful for the work NPO has done to help us rebuild and I don't think any of you could understand what it has been like to be in our shoes.

Also

<3 Cata and Valkyrie9002

There is a difference between being okay with GATO being killed in a war and okay with GATO being imprisoned indefinately. I would feel no differently if it were any other alliance in GATO's position. I am more concerned with an atmosphere where losing war means not only the destruction of your nation, but the indefinate subjugation of your community. I believe many others feel the same way.

[Xiphosis]

There is a difference between being okay with GATO being killed in a war and okay with GATO being imprisoned indefinitely.

There's a big difference, at that. I get kerschb's complaint and I'm guessing more than a few people are bandwagonning, but others are just speaking up because you won't get killed for doing so now.

[Mogar]

There's a big difference, at that. I get kerschb's complaint and I'm guessing more than a few people are bandwagonning, but others are just speaking up because you won't get killed for doing so now.

this is correct, freedom of speech has finally returned.

[Dark Wire]

thank god

-er Admin.

[Blacky]

Hell, I'm grateful for the work NPO has done to help us rebuild

Are you suggesting that some how absolves them from destroying GATO? Your diatribe reads almost as though they're there by invitation rather than as per surrender terms which never seem to end.

and I don't think any of you could understand what it has been like to be in our shoes.

I agree most of us wouldn't have had the resolve to go through with the viceroyalty for so long. The very thought of having my alliance controlled by another is repulsive. The resolve of GATO can also be seen in the long war they fought against overwhelming odds.

To suggest though that nobody supports GATO's plight is unfair to those of us who truly do. I personally would like to see GATO be released from surrender terms as much as I would like to see those who orchestrated the injustice to answer for their crimes.

This thread was made for one purpose. To ask "why hasn't the viceroyalty ended?" If your answer is that you don't want it to end then so be it.

[Blacky]

There's a big difference, at that. I get kerschb's complaint and I'm guessing more than a few people are bandwagonning, but others are just speaking up because you won't get killed for doing so now.

Yes, it's strange how that works. A few of us seem to have misplaced the adhesive that once glued our tongues to the bottom of our mouths. Speaking freely against injustice without recourse is a fine thing.

[shahenshah]

Unless you were a member of CSN, IAA, or USN or one of the few volunteers who tried to help us, you have absolutely no right to use GATO as a pariah for some good ol' NPO PR bashing. Not one of you stood up to object to our warfare then, and now that their may be a rift forming against NPO you speak up? It's a little ridiculous to see people caring about us all of a sudden when many of you in this thread participated in the war against us or our allies. I like the public support, but don't use us to support some cause we want no part of. Hell, I'm grateful for the work NPO has done to help us rebuild and I don't think any of you could understand what it has been like to be in our shoes.

Also

<3 Cata and Valkyrie9002

This man makes a point.

One just has to open the GATO-1V War thread to see how certain people who have now lost favor with NPO were absolutely supportive of the actions then.

Obviously now kerschbs, they will play the 'change' card...and obviously..one has to change and adapt after the environment surrounding one changes..its not about GATO..its about themselves..its about their own agenda and opportunity to take a shot at NPO from GATO's shoulders.

I think GATO has spoken its mind and everyone would like to see a stable GATO..one that is not threat to itself and others..and return as a force..that can contribute as a veteran to the new found Brown momentum..that can sustain and not get in trouble again and again and again. I do hope that the terms end when it does most good for all the parties involved.

I find it funny how 10-20 vocal people somehow claim to speak for the community of 30,000. NPO would have died years ago if public opinion made a difference. Problem is the term 'public opinion' is so generalized...every Tom, Dick and Harry speaks for the 'people' these days really...the term has lost alot of its credibility, although I will not deny that it has completely become irrelevant. Governments serve the members and the charter...not the most active users of OWF.

Edited April 12, 2009 by shahenshah

[Blacky]

One just has to open the GATO-1V War thread to see how certain people who have now lost favor with NPO were absolutely supportive of the actions then.

It's as though you're completely oblivious to everything which has been discussed in this thread.

1) That thread did not have GATO's side of the story in it atleast initially ie;(That they had unknowingly accepted CK amongst their ranks)

2) That thread did not predict a 9 week long war, where those in peace mode were forced out else they face Perma-ZI and were almost all reduced to Zero Infrastructure.

3) That thread did not predict that they would be under terms for almost a year now.

What's more is that is also irrelevant it's an ad hominem rather than a rebuttal to the claims made within this thread. Whether or not some supported those actions partly or not at one time or another does not make it any less right or wrong today. If what you're suggesting is that there is a valid justification for GATO being imprisoned for so long, then please do tell us the justification.

I think GATO has spoken its mind and everyone would like to see a stable GATO..one that is not threat to itself and others..

They can't do that by themselves?

I find it funny how 10-20 vocal people somehow claim to speak for the community.

Seriously, It's an insult to ones own intelligence to argue with you. Where has anybody stated that?

[General Specific]

This man makes a point.

One just has to open the GATO-1V War thread to see how certain people who have now lost favor with NPO were absolutely supportive of the actions then.

Obviously now kerschbs, they will play the 'change' card...and obviously..one has to change and adapt after the environment surrounding one changes..its not about GATO..its about themselves..its about their own agenda and opportunity to take a shot at NPO from GATO's shoulders.

I think GATO has spoken its mind and everyone would like to see a stable GATO..one that is not threat to itself and others..and return as a force..that can contribute as a veteran to the new found Brown momentum..that can sustain and not get in trouble again and again and again. I do hope that the terms end when it does most good for all the parties involved.

I find it funny how 10-20 vocal people somehow claim to speak for the community of 30,000. NPO would have died years ago if public opinion made a difference. Problem is the term 'public opinion' is so generalized...every Tom, Dick and Harry speaks for the 'people' these days really...the term has lost alot of its credibility, although I will not deny that it has completely become irrelevant. Governments serve the members and the charter...not the most active users of OWF.

I find you funny.

Thanks for the laughs?

Also, my magic eight ball says GATO should either declare independence as a soveriegn alliance, fold into the NPO, disband, or help Shahenshah start a new alliance...which.... probably would be the same as disbanding.

[Blacky]

or help Shahenshah start a new alliance...which.... probably would be the same as disbanding.

A punishnent worse than death.

[Alterego]

So you're saying that if I criticize the hegemony I should support it?

I was merely trying to point out that the anti hegemony mantra of people being mindless in their support for it should be applied to their own argument when they mindlessly bleat the party line to take down the hegemony. Does the original Vox/anti hegemony line of "you are too stupid to see the truth" sway many people? I could say they are too stupid to see the truth too, but wouldn't think much of the people I swayed with such a flimsy argument.

Well if you'd like everybody to mindlessly bleat the party line under an uncontested hegemony you're free to help prop it up.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Alterego

[Cataduanes]

Hold on, I meant it simply as a jesting term of endearment and not with any malice aforethought. Obviously the content of this thread is very serious business indeed, and I've misjudged the tone of the conversation we are having here. If I caused you offence by using that moniker, so be it I suppose, twasn't the intent of the point I was making.

My sincere apoligies then, i am somewhat passionate when it comes to the subject of GATO , i just get a bit miffed at still seeing WAE being thrown at them.

It's as though you're completely oblivious to everything which has been discussed in this thread.

1) That thread did not have GATO's side of the story in it atleast initially ie;(That they had unknowingly accepted CK amongst their ranks)

2) That thread did not predict a 9 week long war, where those in peace mode were forced out else they face Perma-ZI and were almost all reduced to Zero Infrastructure.

3) That thread did not predict that they would be under terms for almost a year now.

What's more is that is also irrelevant it's an ad hominem rather than a rebuttal to the claims made within this thread. Whether or not some supported those actions partly or not at one time or another does not make it any less right or wrong today. If what you're suggesting is that there is a valid justification for GATO being imprisoned for so long, then please do tell us the justification.

1) 'our' side of the story was out there, but no one wanted to listen.

2) Indeed on this i completely agree, i for one had no inkling that it would be a 9 week conflict.

3) Again true, however when those of us who were still GATO at the end of the war voted on those terms and trust me the discussion prior to the vote encapsulated the very thought of how long we would be under terms among other things. We knew full well that having accepted those terms that GATO was at the Order's complete mercy but we accepted regardless.

Do not get me wrong i would dearly love to see them 'Free' and i applaud the fact that this thread allows for discussion, its just that some of us GATO vets still feel bitter about the whole thing

[Grand Master Azreal]

To be honest though Cata, for a while there we where expecting it to go on longer for 9 weeks

[Cataduanes]

To be honest though Cata, for a while there we where expecting it to go on longer for 9 weeks

Yeah after a while but at the beginning? we had no idea!, certainly by week 6-7 we were all thinking that this would be far longer than we anticipated and many of us were resigned to our fate...

[Grand Master Azreal]

I went in expecting to not come out of it