animea90

Come on guys, we all know your just Vox Puppets. Dance puppets dance.

That was the only one I saw even closely related and it was about recent BC shennanigans and not really about the posted logs.

I have not seen anyone post a topic about it and I think it deserves one. In my opinion, mhawk was doing allot of bullying. He threw out several claims and refused to provide evidence or even explain how they got this information. Most likely, the evidence against them would have come from spying, but that would make them hypocrites. For reference: http://tattler.assimilator.org/?p=124

So, are you actually going to present FAN with reasonable terms then? It would go a long way towards proving your commitment to this policy if you were to apologize for your actions during the last peace terms for FAN.

1. If your main interest is survival then why not stay in peace mode? That is the best way to insure you don't lose people. 2. Or if you are concerned about growth, why join an alliance which is disliked as much as GGA? You would be in a much better survival position in an alliance not suffering from stagnation and instability. Plus, you are exposed to terrorist agents and any potential war GGA could get involved in. Red team unaligned or GPA would be the safest possible positions(especially if your not doing any posting on the forums, see three) 3. If your main interest really is survival, then posting on the forums would be counterproductive. Posting on the forums(Particularly contradicting others) simply exposes you to other people who may dislike you and as such could threaten(however unlikely) your survival. It has happened before. The most effective way to simply grow your nation would be to not post outside of tech deal and trade circle threads. Presenting your ideas to people puts you at risk of being harmed for them. In essence, if AA is based on benefit to your survival, the most beneficial position would be an alliance like GPA with historically virtually no combat. Your current AA exposes you to both terrorist agents who may attack(Vox, Fan) and posting on the forums further puts your survival at risk.

I C WUT U DID THAR

I guess I could join.

In before 5 people make jokes about this being them, oh wait

I am not saying they are evil, just that they do not act without reason. Yes, keeping you "complacent" is probably why the viceroys were sent(I would use the word docile or lacking the strength to be a threat.) If they were really interested in strengthening your alliance, they would allow you to have outside treaties or at least recieve aid with other alliances. Tech deals would have made GATO strength increase ALLOT faster. The only real response you provided to my arguments was that "Those responsible for rebulding our alliance don't want to be here forever they'd rather be devoting their time and effort to NPO.", but by keeping GATO docile, they help keep a potential threat from forming. If they were really interested in rebuilding your alliance, they are doing a HORRIBLE job at it. Not allowing you to, as I said before, recieve foreign aid or create treaties are extremely counterproductive to building an alliance. Note: I am not saying GATO has not improved since the war, just that they could have done it with the NPO and if NPO was just interested in restructuring GATO internally it would not have taken 9 months.

Then what do you base your alliance affiliation on?

You say "on both sides". What incentive does NPO have to end the viceroyship? If GATO is amiable enough to it and you don't want foreign entities getting involved, why would NPO give up control over GATO? From what I have known of the NPO, they are a pretty smart bunch and don't do things without a reason.

1. So Ragashindo was lying when he said "in GATO's case the lack of free speech may have something to do with it. When I left GATO a few months ago its members were not allowed to start topics without high ranking government approval. There are a handful of GATO member who fit that description and could authorize a topic's posting, but they still have to answer to their NPO overlords. 2. "free speech is merely pixels too" No, free speech is the exchange of IDEAS, not pixels. While we may type of these ideas on the forum, the ideas themselves are not composed of pixels. Infrastructure really is nothing more than bits of computer coding. 3. "we had a choice" By choice do you mean there was an option other than Fan style eternal ZI? Did NPO offer a white peace without a viceroy, but GATO felt it was in there best interest to have NPO rulers? Edit: By that logic, slaves have a choice. So did the Indians when they were force marched off their land in the Trail of Tears. They could have easily chosen to be killed.

Then where exactly is the right place to sort out the issue? private channels? That has done nothing to further the issue over the last 6 months

So you judge your alliances worth based on how many pixels you have? Are things like free speech irrelevant to the democratic society of GATO? I have heard nobody rebut the earlier claim from an ex-GATO member that the average members of GATO were/are not allowed to post threads on the forums without NPO permission. I find it sad that GATO has seemed to have abandoned the democratic principles it was founded on.

Please explain to me how exactly GATO is a threat to itself? P.S. I have been arguing against GATOs indefinate imprisonment for quite some time. In fact, I put myself on EZI lists because I dislike how things are current handled in CN.

Being in Valhalla means you at least passively support the policies of your alliance. You may not be directly inacting any policies, but you are helping provide the strength behind them.

If you have not noticed, NPO seems to be under radio silence. There is nobody to critisize them.

There is a difference between being okay with GATO being killed in a war and okay with GATO being imprisoned indefinately. I would feel no differently if it were any other alliance in GATO's position. I am more concerned with an atmosphere where losing war means not only the destruction of your nation, but the indefinate subjugation of your community. I believe many others feel the same way.

I would like to request to both Vlad and Electron that you stop posting off topic. I really like the purpose of this thread and would rather a mod not lock it for being off topic. OWF has a thread right now about ES and the OoO cancelation can probably go there.

Well guys its time to pack up and go home, Mogar has won the thread.

If the Viceroy team is such jerks that they will force their position onto GATO for longer just because of a thread by someone not a part of GATO, then they are not nearly as friendly and non invasive as some GATO members have been saying. If what you say is true, imagine what would happen if a GATO member started publically requesting freedom.

If community opinion plays 0 part of NPO diplomacy then your correct. However, having the support of an allies(and your own) membership does actually matter. And if threads like this make people question why GATO is still being held, they serve their purpose. Furthermore, I think it would be extremely immature of the NPO to make an entire community suffer because some people want them released. Its like the 8 year old who continues to play a video game just because other people want a turn. Do you really think NPO is that immature?

When the alternative is FAN style EZI I dont know how much you can consider it a choice

While I would like to see GATO free and support your cause, this statement betrays a major lack of knowledge of history. We have had multiple genocides since the time of Hitler. Some(like Po Pots Camer(SP?) Rouge) have arguable been much worse and were completely unpunished.

Okay, thanks. I retract my previous statements then.