In the GATO

[kerschbs]

Who are you calling ex-IAA? Maybe ex-IAA on CN, but not at heart.

And I can't believe you've let Tezla in charge.

I voted for the other guy

And as always Kevlar manages to steal the thread. I hate you sir.

[Kevlar]

I am not saying they are evil, just that they do not act without reason. Yes, keeping you "complacent" is probably why the viceroys were sent(I would use the word docile or lacking the strength to be a threat.) If they were really interested in strengthening your alliance, they would allow you to have outside treaties or at least recieve aid with other alliances. Tech deals would have made GATO strength increase ALLOT faster.

The only real response you provided to my arguments was that "Those responsible for rebulding our alliance don't want to be here forever they'd rather be devoting their time and effort to NPO.",

but by keeping GATO docile, they help keep a potential threat from forming. If they were really interested in rebuilding your alliance, they are doing a HORRIBLE job at it. Not allowing you to, as I said before, recieve foreign aid or create treaties are extremely counterproductive to building an alliance.

Note: I am not saying GATO has not improved since the war, just that they could have done it with the NPO and if NPO was just interested in restructuring GATO internally it would not have taken 9 months.

Your information is outdated.

Why would a Viceroy make us complacent? If anything, shouldn't it make us anything but complacent?

Our primary aid partner during the rebuilding phase was, as is well-known, NPO. We initially received aid for the simple purpose of rebuilding. We later did tech deals, which were altered to our benefit profit-wise. If your beef is with why we weren't purchasing technology, then the answer is simply because we didn't have the money at the time. Besides, there wouldn't have been a point to beefing up on technology when most of us were ZI.

Currently we aren't restricted to NPO for technology deals, so I don't see your point on them keeping us docile or hindering our growth. Second, GATO hasn't been a threat to NPO for ages. If you had made that claim anywhere between GWI and GWIII, then it may make sense. But now? GATO isn't an aggressive alliance.

And if the measure of an alliance is simply by its flow of foreign aid and the proliferation of treaties with foreign entities, then we aren't going to get very far. For one, our foreign aid isn't as tied up as you claim. For two, our focus is internal, not external. As well, what is the point in a treaty that isn't backed up by a real and true friendship? Our greatest friends stood by our side when we needed them most. It takes time and effort to make a real friendship like that.

So I call bunk on the docile claim.

The true measure of an alliance is the tenacity of its members and the incommensurable bonds of friendship they share with each other and their allies.

-Kev

[Cataduanes]

<snip>

Your the man Kevlar

but by keeping GATO docile, they help keep a potential threat from forming.

And by the same token GATO has escaped the cycle of agressive wars that plagued it, the whole process is in some ways a two way street ...one of the reasons those of us who voted on the Orders terms and accepted was that it would enable GATO some peace, a peace without having to look over GATO's collective shoulder constantly (which was the case post-GW3).

And as always Kevlar manages to steal the thread. I hate you sir.

Yeah he has a habit of doing that

Edited April 13, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Palpatine001]

[Walks in with a cup of coffee]

[sits down and reads this thread]

[Has a quiet chuckle over this thread while drinking coffee]

[Goes fetches a cup of tea and goes back to his university assignments]

Got to love this thread, seems to be going around like a Merry-go-round with the stop button broken

Anyway my 2 cents

I joined GATO when she was and still is under vice royalty so not really up to speed on the last Grand War

Anyhow GATO is progressing along with growth seeming to be speeding up and Foreign Affairs Offices back open

Seems the spirit of Democracy was alive and well when a recent Charter Debate was hotly contested and the vote failing - along with the newbies winding up the oldies something shocking

Just mention Parliament in the GATO threads and watch those fireworks go off

As for Freedom, hey I'm Free and want evidence of that, be online when 2 aussies and kiwi start letting rip in the IRC rooms and everyone including Revenge and our favourite whipping boy I mean Ze Cherman SDRD become fair targets - and not to worry its all civilised with the odd round house kickings; and at the end of the night The 4 of us can sit at the table and have a serious discussion on GATO affairs when ever where ever

As for a GATO member saying can GATO be Free

Can GATO be Free?

(I dont see the harm asking that, in all honesty I think SDRD is seriously looking forward to the day he can hang up his Viceroy hat and just sit down and have a nice cold German Beer after having the Sanity driven from him by 2 crazy GATOans from Australia and NZ)

As for the answer - Probably get a 'When you get your s--- sorted AKA getting a Working Charter'

That was my 2 cents

PS - Luv ya SDRD

[Byron Orpheus]

Then what do you base your alliance affiliation on?

I base my alliance affiliation on that it is beneficial to my survival. My alliance is my dominator and I am its subordinate, and through this relationship both of us avoid death (I have outlined these thoughts in two essays, so those of you who can read can readily be familiar with my theory on the subject).

[Byron Orpheus]

Survival in this world requires nothing but the will to survive.

But survival in our world goes beyond mere ontological existence and implies benefit or growth.

[animea90]

I base my alliance affiliation on that it is beneficial to my survival. My alliance is my dominator and I am its subordinate, and through this relationship both of us avoid death (I have outlined these thoughts in two essays, so those of you who can read can readily be familiar with my theory on the subject).

1. If your main interest is survival then why not stay in peace mode? That is the best way to insure you don't lose people.

2. Or if you are concerned about growth, why join an alliance which is disliked as much as GGA? You would be in a much better survival position in an alliance not suffering from stagnation and instability. Plus, you are exposed to terrorist agents and any potential war GGA could get involved in. Red team unaligned or GPA would be the safest possible positions(especially if your not doing any posting on the forums, see three)

3. If your main interest really is survival, then posting on the forums would be counterproductive. Posting on the forums(Particularly contradicting others) simply exposes you to other people who may dislike you and as such could threaten(however unlikely) your survival. It has happened before. The most effective way to simply grow your nation would be to not post outside of tech deal and trade circle threads. Presenting your ideas to people puts you at risk of being harmed for them.

In essence, if AA is based on benefit to your survival, the most beneficial position would be an alliance like GPA with historically virtually no combat. Your current AA exposes you to both terrorist agents who may attack(Vox, Fan) and posting on the forums further puts your survival at risk.

[Byron Orpheus]

1. If your main interest is survival then why not stay in peace mode? That is the best way to insure you don't lose people.

2. Or if you are concerned about growth, why join an alliance which is disliked as much as GGA? You would be in a much better survival position in an alliance not suffering from stagnation and instability. Plus, you are exposed to terrorist agents and any potential war GGA could get involved in. Red team unaligned or GPA would be the safest possible positions(especially if your not doing any posting on the forums, see three)

3. If your main interest really is survival, then posting on the forums would be counterproductive. Posting on the forums(Particularly contradicting others) simply exposes you to other people who may dislike you and as such could threaten(however unlikely) your survival. It has happened before. The most effective way to simply grow your nation would be to not post outside of tech deal and trade circle threads. Presenting your ideas to people puts you at risk of being harmed for them.

In essence, if AA is based on benefit to your survival, the most beneficial position would be an alliance like GPA with historically virtually no combat. Your current AA exposes you to both terrorist agents who may attack(Vox, Fan) and posting on the forums further puts your survival at risk.

1) Because stagnant survival is not survival, and peace mode does not allow for the greatest possible growth.

2) I joined those who recruited me. Furthermore, historically even GPA is not immune to warfare when it threatens the greater good. GPA is not the safest option precisely because it is not aligned with the dominant force on the planet, and thus is open to attack without the assistance of allies.

3) You are looking at survival in terms of pure survival while I am looking at it in the context of power. Furthermore, one could argue that by posting in the forums I could also be helping my own survival, particularly against these vicious orations (no doubt the result of frustrated inferiority) against my alliance.

[LiquidMercury]

1) Because stagnant survival is not survival, and peace mode does not allow for the greatest possible growth.

3) You are looking at survival in terms of pure survival while I am looking at it in the context of power. Furthermore, one could argue that by posting in the forums I could also be helping my own survival, particularly against these vicious orations (no doubt the result of frustrated inferiority) against my alliance.

1. If you're looking for the greatest possible growth, why choose GGA? And no this isn't a snip at GGA. If you were truly caring about "the greatest possible growth" would you not find an alliance that is truly geared around the greatest possible growth?

3. I can't say that many feel frustrated or inferior to GGA. If you are looking at "survival" in the context of power as you say, then would you not join NPO who many would say currently hold the greatest amount of collective power?

[Cataduanes]

and Foreign Affairs Offices back open

yeah except there is no embassy for me/ODN ('Pwerty pleez' mr Viceroy sir).

Seems the spirit of Democracy was alive and well when a recent Charter Debate was hotly contested and the vote failing - along with the newbies winding up the oldies something shocking

Just mention Parliament in the GATO threads and watch those fireworks go off

If that is the case then democracy is truly alive and kicking in GATO B)

Edited April 14, 2009 by Cataduanes

[Byron Orpheus]

1. If you're looking for the greatest possible growth, why choose GGA? And no this isn't a snip at GGA. If you were truly caring about "the greatest possible growth" would you not find an alliance that is truly geared around the greatest possible growth?

3. I can't say that many feel frustrated or inferior to GGA. If you are looking at "survival" in the context of power as you say, then would you not join NPO who many would say currently hold the greatest amount of collective power?

Because it is all one in the first place. My individual choices in the matter, the particular flavor of the system that I choose, ultimately does not matter.

[Kolia Farvazov]

If that is the case then democracy is truly alive and kicking in GATO B)

Indeed it is, and kicking hard! =)

And now that we are independent here's guessing it will kick even harder =)

K