Chickenzilla Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Believe me, I hurt too.And what, if I may, is to become of your alleged spy network? I gave it up. I'm done spying and am attempting to get off of perma ZI lists as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchh Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Seems like it's not so much about policy as it is a specific situation which would merit individual judgment. And I think anyone who joins NSO probably trusts Ivan's judgment if something like that ever came up, and furthermore it would probably be most unwise to try to play semantics with him in order to get a free shot at a member. It might be a specific situation, but so would most other 'grievances'. Without any sort of system of assuring that any member deserves the protection of the alliance or not, it seems murky at best. Sad to see that this isn't common sense for everyone that plays this game. Good to see you thriving on discipline and honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuterium Dawn Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) This should at the very least be interesting. I wish you luck, but I am too lazy to go off on some damn fool crusade. Edit: Because I absolutely have to make a Star Wars reference. Edited March 6, 2009 by Deuterium Dawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I'll ignore the AirMe issue and ask a question whose answer is rather important to me: You have made it clear you're willing to look past and forget old affiliations and actions with respect to nations. However, I saw your opinion of MK as you expressed it at one point behind closed doors, and to say the least it was not favorable. With this return you've got going, are you also going to start with a blank slate with respect to alliances, or will you be holding to old biases and disdain? If you would prefer to address this matter in private, by all means feel free to PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted March 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I'll ignore the AirMe issue and ask a question whose answer is rather important to me:You have made it clear you're willing to look past and forget old affiliations and actions with respect to nations. However, I saw your opinion of MK as you expressed it at one point behind closed doors, and to say the least it was not favorable. With this return you've got going, are you also going to start with a blank slate with respect to alliances, or will you be holding to old biases and disdain? If you would prefer to address this matter in private, by all means feel free to PM. Personal opinion from the past (as I assume you are referencing) and alliance wide policy from the present are very different things. As an individual without authority and without responsibility I was given more leeway in regards to my own freedom of expression than I would allow under the new circumstances. That being said, anything that I said about the Mushroom Kingdom prior to my actually taking on an active role in the Cyberverse was based on nothing more than conjecture and erroneous assumptions that the alliance was pushed by a philosophy much like its natural predecessor the LUEnited Nations. From my very fast and very crammed realpolitik education of the last 48 hours I have come to see MK as the strongest ally to my strongest ally, which is important to me, and as potential friends for the future. Indeed, aside from yourself honestly, I have gotten along quite well with the vast majority of the old time members from LN in non-political arenas. Since I know you value my apologies so highly I will refrain from offering one for anything that I might have stated in haste or under a different name that caused offense. I was however, mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Ivan you are a legend in my land, a historical figure, but yet I find myself not really knowing what to think about your political comeback, except for it is really nice to see you back. Also, for "Let's try something different" you are not very original, sir (a light joke, no insult intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) How does NSO know whether the past baggage is legitimate or not? If there is a disagreement between where a member believes they have been slighted unfairly and deserve the backing of the alliance, how is it settled? Let's say I make up a BS reason (but would be a good reason to attack him if true) for not liking Raider of Azzar (chosen at random for examples sake), and attack him. How does NSO respond? It might be a specific situation, but so would most other 'grievances'. Without any sort of system of assuring that any member deserves the protection of the alliance or not, it seems murky at best.Good to see you thriving on discipline and honor. I disagree. I think most other cases of ZI and grievances are rather well known, and easily handled under an umbrella policy. Now, whether that member feels his ZI is fair or not is not an issue; he's going into NSO with a sentence already on his head, and it will be his/her own responsibility. However, in the hypothetical situation you bring up, you are choosing to go after a player after he has already joined the alliance, someone who you have not brought up grievances with in the past; this is of course just hypothetical BS on your part, and would probably be treated as such (but this is just my opinion, and of course not NSO's or Ivan Moldavi's). I do however parallel this situation to one which Polaris faced a little while before the noCB War. Once the ties to NPO were cut and Polaris was politically isolated, Sam/MCXA approached us regarding the ZI sentence of a member(s) who had been with us for a few months prior, but they had never said anything. However, Polaris was in a tight spot, and when opportunity knocks, the opportunists shall answer. Edited March 6, 2009 by hizzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 No-one but Moldavi could get away with allowing members on ZI lists to have membership. Hell, Hyperion were rolled for unknowingly aiding someone whose previous incarnation was on a ZI list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) No-one but Moldavi could get away with allowing members on ZI lists to have membership. Hell, Hyperion were rolled for unknowingly aiding someone whose previous incarnation was on a ZI list. You'd think after some time something like this would fade away but everytime I hear it... edit: oh don't forget the blackmail. Edited March 6, 2009 by hizzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uaciaut Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Personal opinion from the past (as I assume you are referencing) and alliance wide policy from the present are very different things. As an individual without authority and without responsibility I was given more leeway in regards to my own freedom of expression than I would allow under the new circumstances.That being said, anything that I said about the Mushroom Kingdom prior to my actually taking on an active role in the Cyberverse was based on nothing more than conjecture and erroneous assumptions that the alliance was pushed by a philosophy much like its natural predecessor the LUEnited Nations. From my very fast and very crammed realpolitik education of the last 48 hours I have come to see MK as the strongest ally to my strongest ally, which is important to me, and as potential friends for the future. Indeed, aside from yourself honestly, I have gotten along quite well with the vast majority of the old time members from LN in non-political arenas. Since I know you value my apologies so highly I will refrain from offering one for anything that I might have stated in haste or under a different name that caused offense. I was however, mistaken. I'm beginning to like you more and more really D: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinendelDucky Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 The general consensus in GATO seems to be... Welcome to brown! (And some of us who have been around for a while are glad to see Ivan back.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerdge Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 No-one but Moldavi could get away with allowing members on ZI lists to have membership. Hell, Hyperion were rolled for unknowingly aiding someone whose previous incarnation was on a ZI list. Assuming he will get away with it... The NSO is only one day old, isn't it premature to be all in awe for the way "it changed the world"? I never knew Ivan in his past days and I still have to form an opinion on NSO (though their first ally is very promising); considering that Ivan Moldavi is the living legend of CN I hope there will be some occasion to make some business with him. The expectation is tremendous, the leaders and the crowds of the planet seem to believe that we'll soon see miracles and magic... It has to be a big burden to carry, and for that I send my best wishes to the NSO and to its Dark Lord: may your path be successful in bringing good to CN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Since I know you value my apologies so highly I will refrain from offering one for anything that I might have stated in haste or under a different name that caused offense. I was however, mistaken. I'll admit, the beginning of that sentence put a rueful little smile on my face. The rest of it I appreciate. I think you may have the wrong idea about me concerning certain things, but if that is the case then the fault is mine. As you pointed out: Indeed, aside from yourself honestly, I have gotten along quite well with the vast majority of the old time members from LN in non-political arenas. I will do my best to fix that. In the positive way, I promise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxNation Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 No-one but Moldavi could get away with allowing members on ZI lists to have membership. Hell, Hyperion were rolled for unknowingly aiding someone whose previous incarnation was on a ZI list. Do you dare challenge Ivan the Great? I know I don't... Good luck Ivan, maybe the game will get interesting again now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I would if he was harbouring someone on the Grämlins ZI list ... fortunately, there is no such person Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Do you dare challenge Ivan the Great? I know I don't... Fear is the path to the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxNation Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Fear is the path to the dark side. I always kind of liked the dark side, sounds good to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 No-one but Moldavi could get away with allowing members on ZI lists to have membership. Hell, Hyperion were rolled for unknowingly aiding someone whose previous incarnation was on a ZI list. We are not aiding PZI nations... simply offering them a home. I think that is really in the best interests of all involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 We are not aiding PZI nations... simply offering them a home. I think that is really in the best interests of all involved. Most alliances that knowingly accept PZI nations get rolled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenzilla Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Most alliances that knowingly accept PZI nations get rolled. When you think about it, how many alliances have tried the reasoning of "okay, keep attacking them until they get off of perma ZI, we will not support them militarily" approach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymenbreach Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Seems like people are storing that as a future cassus belli? Still either that or Ivan has made CN's first Washing Machine Alliance. You go in with ZI all over your clothes and come out later sparkly white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomInterrupt Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 Most alliances that knowingly accept PZI nations get rolled. This is pretty clearly not a standard alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unko Kalaikz Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Seems like people are storing that as a future cassus belli?Still either that or Ivan has made CN's first Washing Machine Alliance. You go in with ZI all over your clothes and come out later sparkly white. :lol: But no, I don't think there is much cause for concern. Basically we are just allowing our PZI'd members access to forums that fully protected members have -- PZI people usually have guest priveledges on alliance forums anyway we just kick it up a notch. They do not enjoy defense (relating to their previous conflicts) or aid (iirc) until they work out their differences with whoever is PZIing them. This is really a great way to get PZI people to stop what they're doing because now they have real hope and incentive of being part of something fun. Edited March 6, 2009 by Count da Silva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sal Paradise Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Seems like people are storing that as a future cassus belli?Still either that or Ivan has made CN's first Washing Machine Alliance. You go in with ZI all over your clothes and come out later sparkly white. Or, they're all hypocrites feigning offense for a half-$@!ed excuse to a start war they've been planning for months. There's that possibility too. edit: was actually expecting that word to be filtered, it wasn't, so I filtered it for you. fear not easily offended eyes. Edited March 6, 2009 by Sal Paradise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boscher Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I think I just joined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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