Your Regularly Scheduled Vox Thread

[Mogar]

So that TPF wouldn't get killed again.

TPF has always had very respectful relations with Polaris, as I recall when we canceled our treaty pre War of the Coalition, we were the only alliance to make it clear that we still respected them and kept all trolling out of our thread.

[ChairmanHal]

You disappoint me in picking my post to reference what you perceived as low-class comments, for I am not the one who made them. Past and present, I have always respected you ES, and I believe your return to relevance is great for the cyberverse. I also think you've behaved like an insensitive buffoon at times, which has played itself out retributively to the place you currently reside on Bob. But it doesn't diminsh my respect for what history shows you've accomplished.

You make a few critical errors here OBM in your reply. Sponge is someone who merits no respect, and is irrelevant to the cyberverse. If people such as yourself insist on holding him up as someone who merits anything more than commentary on how to lose anything, then they are giving him FAR too much credit. Far more than being a mere an insensitive buffoon "at times", he even now engages in completely unethical behavior for his own agenda. As for his accomplishments, those belong to the present and former members of Polaris, to "the Orders" of history, and to all those in the Initiative that became dominant after GW III and provided a climate in which NpO could thrive so long as its leadership didn't make major missteps. Sponge through hard work and dedication made the very missteps that led to his downfall and lined up Polaris in the shooting gallery.

I do however take umbrage with you painting yourself with the self-serving brush of diplomatic minimilism. As with all things Sponge, your current proscribed world view seeks only to be forward looking and disruptive to the established hegemony. Yesterday, you held a different view, one that many of us call out, and the response from your minions is to scream "uh uh... no he didn't". It is sad and sucky.

It's like this...Sponge with the guns of thousands nations behind him merits fear. You would love to tell him to his face what you think but you must mute your comments and pretend to like him. Perhaps you even grudgingly respect his position of power and the fact he was "around when...". Sponge without all the guns and the title is a conniving has-been who wants to re-write history so that he comes out ahead in the end and he can resume some throne of power or other.

I see through the b.s. and always have.

[Merrie Melodies]

It's like this...Sponge with the guns of thousands nations behind him merits fear. You would love to tell him to his face what you think but you must mute your comments and pretend to like him. Perhaps you even grudgingly respect his position of power and the fact he was "around when...". Sponge without all the guns and the title is a conniving has-been who wants to re-write history so that he comes out ahead in the end and he can resume some throne of power or other.

I see through the b.s. and always have.

This coming from the man who faked a war! Surely you are not using your new found position to talk out of a orifice other than your mouth.

[Ghostlin]

This coming from the man who faked a war! Surely you are not using your new found position to talk out of a orifice other than your mouth.

Which war did Hal fake?

Are you referring to Schattenman, who created the Bubblegum War with zzzzptm while Hal was a member of Rok and not Browncoats? Whom, the former is, ironically, is the originator of this thread?

I can understand why you might be confused, but a precursory check of CN records (read, the wiki) might help you with your random attacks of the character of certain alliance leaders.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Ghostlin

[Schattenmann]

Whoooooo!

Mayki is hardly active anymore. He primarily sticks around to check on me, Hinky, and Exp Hog. Hence why I protect his nation under my AA.

Brings back memories; back in the days of Daemon Vower, 404, Ahkbar, Dumbwhiteguy and company.

Can't say I miss 404, and can't say the name of the one I truly miss (her name's been [OOC] word filtered [/OOC]). I mostly miss the fun. But fun is fun and done is done, 404 ended the fun with Slayer's help.

That's about as likely as ES being relevant again.

Said the retired has-been.

When he melted down, betrayed his allies and Polar, and joined Vox.

On second thought...Mogar the Matchmaker needs to retire before he gets started.

Sponge joined Vox under the same circumstances that many people joined, after the world turned its back on him. If TPF [OOC]de-masks[/OOC] you, you're welcome to join too. After you've eaten crow and apologized to KaiserMartens.

Like his hypocrisy? Like you guys accepting and defending him? The man who directly led to the curb-stomping and extinction of more than a few alliances. The man who rails against such things now and would STILL be leading the curb-stomping and extinction of alliances if he had not been removed from power.

Sponge's past transgressions lay at the feet of the same people that your continuing transgressions lay: His supporting allies, the powerbase that allowed and supported those actions, toadies like Echelon and MCXA et al.

You guys are gold. In fact, you're just like ES...you'll accept anyone so long as it furthers your goals...your ideology is as empty as your supposed moral high ground.

We'll accept anyone so long as they are committed to changing the world and taking out the trash. Just as I was created in the rending of GOONS, the Sponge you see today was created in the world's coniving. Blame yourselves, you've created a deep enemy with deeper connections.

Even better, for all your posturing, Vox would love to wipe out Pacifica, TPF, or anyone else that opposes your bitter and empty ideology.

Some of us would love to wipe out TPF, some NPO, some GGA, some any number of others. It is lucky for you that while we push hardest and most feverish for change, when that day comes it will not be for us to decide--and even still, if it were it would not be in our hearts or our movement to do so.

Loss? TPF didn't lose in the UJW. The Orders won GWI, and they received surrender terms! How can TPF be considered a losing party in the UJW?

I was going to say that TPF lost its compass in the UjW, but seeign as how it was formed on betrayal, I don't see that a rise from more betrayal could be considered a loss.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Schattenmann]

Actually, I don't think he is, because post war Slayer signed a treaty with ES.

How has slayer screwed over a protectorate, ever?

When Slayer99 dissolved the government of Purge and threatened ZI to anyone leaving the AA in order to "protect" Purge from itself, he betrayed the spirit and trust of his protectorate.

Are you joking me?!?!?!?!?!ELECTRON SPONGE WAS ONE OF THE BIGGEST PLAYERS IN CREATING THE MDP WEB THE WAY IT IS TODAY. He signed an influx of treaties, and pretty much set a precedent.

By the time Electron_Sponge's enemies were allowed to attack him by NPO, Polaris' power structure was large and wide, but it was generally separate from the Power Superstructure's MDP Web. In fact, that is why it was necessary to destroy them.

Morals such as releasing private information that clearly aren't wanted to be released about an ally's emperor? Great morals.

Interesting. It's sort of like TPF's releasing private information of an enemy's--oh wait, it's ok when it's the bad guys. Shut up.

That was before my time, but you still cannot argue the fact that ES didn't have a major role in bringing the treaty web how it is today.

And if fairweather friends like Echelon and MCXA had had the guts or resolve, it would have been Sponge that broguht about a large part of its downfall. We are not static in time--Sponge, and all of us, are dynamics, we are individuals acting in the present, not museum exhibits. lern2reed.

I do however take umbrage with you painting yourself with the self-serving brush of diplomatic minimilism. As with all things Sponge, your current proscribed world view seeks only to be forward looking and disruptive to the established hegemony. Yesterday, you held a different view, one that many of us call out, and the response from your minions is to scream "uh uh... no he didn't". It is sad and sucky.

See above, we are all dynamic. Sponge's "low" (by your perception) state was brought on him by his actions in opposition to the hegemony and the fear of his former friends.

This coming from the man who faked a war! Surely you are not using your new found position to talk out of a orifice other than your mouth.

I'll thank you to note that the Bubblegum War was my baby, not Hal's. In fact it would have been quite impossible to pull off if Hal had still been a member of Browncoats much less in a position of government there--but he was not. He had retired and joined RoK where he could become inactive for personal reasons.

Edited February 1, 2009 by Schattenmann

[Merrie Melodies]

Which war did Hal fake?

Are you referring to Schattenman, who created the Bubblegum War with zzzzptm while Hal was a member of Rok and not Browncoats? Whom, the former is, ironically, is the originator of this thread?

I can understand why you might be confused, but a precursory check of CN records (read, the wiki) might help you with your random attacks of the character of certain alliance leaders.

Meh, your right, my bad. My dislike for both gets confusing at times.

[Doitzel]

Seriously, people are way to quick to point fingers instead of holding themselves personally accountable for the state of the Cyberverse; if you don't like the way things are, join an alliance that you actually like and work to change it.

OOC: That just makes you an irrelevant coward failure! If you want to be BIG SUCCESS you have to join BIG ALLIANCE and become IMPORTANT ENOUGH to be invited to GOVERNMENT SKYPE CALLS! Success defined by enjoyment is ridiculous! Everything is about power there is no other end to which this game can be played!!! Altruistic concern for the state of things is impossible!! NPO can't feel remorse for its actions so obviously nobody else can either it doesn't make sense raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! *eats child*

Vox Populi says it's true, so it must be true. I mean, why shouldn't we all listen to those who are EZI/PZI for their earlier actions? It makes perfect sense.

If it is counter to my stated position then it is not Truth.

are you really going to sit here and try to justify leaking personal RL info? There was no reason for it.

OOC: Actually there was every reason for it because the NPO's upper echelons were still using it as a means to defame sponge. They repeatedly referenced those logs in a misleading manner and the only way to make clear that they were full of it was to release them. If they did not want them used or released then they should not have so actively brought them into the game; of course, I'm sure they did so knowing full well that if he retaliated with the truth then they could assassinate his character with CN's version of Godwin -- OMG OOC ATTACKS!

We have been over this time and again. Everyone blames sponge for everything, but the truth is far, far less simple.

I do however take umbrage with you painting yourself with the self-serving brush of diplomatic minimilism. As with all things Sponge, your current proscribed world view seeks only to be forward looking and disruptive to the established hegemony. Yesterday, you held a different view, one that many of us call out, and the response from your minions is to scream "uh uh... no he didn't". It is sad and sucky.

Il n'y a que les idiots qui ne changent pas d'avis.

Sponge did not "create" a world of blocs and deadlocks. His point is that while his alliance may have held many treaties during his reign, he had a pattern of leaving, destroying, and trying to destroy blocs. So in that sense, no, he did not create this world at all. And to attribute all of the diplomatic work of Polar to Sponge is ludicrous. When everyone declared war on Polar over him -- a deposed, nationless Emperor -- they cited his undiplomatic conduct and how MEAN he was to them. The diplomatic aptitude displayed by Polar previously was due more to RandomInterrupt than anyone else and that is why he, too, was forced by the NPO out of Polar.

So yes, that is what this all comes down to. Blame Random.

[ChairmanHal]

Meh, your right, my bad. My dislike for both gets confusing at times.

Then let's add to your embarrassment. In the days leading up to the Bubblegum War, I warned Schattenman and Durim (who was also in the IRC channel at the time) that they should stick to their treaties and honor them. It would mean that Browncoats would get bloodied but it was the honorable thing to do and since BC wasn't the primary target and merely honoring treaties, I counseled, they would likely get off comparatively light in the end.

Instead, Schattenman chose "preventing a massive war involving Black Team" (his words) over his alliance and condemned it to death. He did so without sanction from anyone else in Browncoats. I had also warned him previously that choosing loyalty to Black Team over loyalty to Browncoats would end up being the death of him--some would argue that being in Vox is like being dead, but I digress.

Were it not for the fact that I had left Browncoats in search of the quiet life in a larger alliance among friends (RL is a harsh mistress), then I would have been there with Holloweyes and the rest of Browncoats and met my fate, leading the charge against those that opposed our allies. That things turned out much differently is both something I'm thankful for and also have a touch a regret about. Browncoats didn't deserve what happened to them. They had their failings as an alliance, but go down as they did. Sad.

[Vasuda]

If you don't want information leaked, you shouldn't give it to people. This is an online game. If you give out information, expect it to be leaked at some point. It should be like a law of Cybernations. Is it a good thing? No, not really. Does it happen? Yes, all the time, not just on CN, but most online browser based games.

Please don't let your disdain for TPF or any of the other major players lead you away from your own standards, my friend. The reason that Slayer is looked down upon by many people on Bob, is due to his own belief that pursuing and exposing other people's information is acceptable.

Gee, this sounds an awful lot like the GOONS. In fact, this sounds like the exactly philosophy of a certain GOONS leader. GOONS, the same alliance that ES publicly condemned for such actions. And I supposed you don't see the hypocrisy in this?

Well, obviously you don't see your own hypocrisy, either.

I don't approve of that kind of low-brow practice by anyone on any side of the treaty web, whether it be 404, Slayer, ES, or anyone else.

I'm also with Hal on ES' newfound morality. I don't buy it for a minute. Not so long ago, ES was right at the center of everything that he now condemns. He once had power, but he lost it due to his own mistakes. Now, he naturally blames the people who took up arms against him, and aligns himself with an opposition group full of many people he fought against for a year or more. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. It is obvious to me that ES' union with Vox is an alliance of convenience, nothing more. To make him a Senator, and to see others attempt to defend past actions they were condemning in back rooms at the time, is sad, and once again makes me question whether Vox Populi is committed to creating a better Bob, or if they are overcome by their personal hatred of some of the people they feel have wronged them.

All in all, the powerful will do anything they can to retain their power. Conversely, those who lose their power will say and do nearly anything to regain at least some of what they lost, and get revenge in the process. As such, I have spent most of my time since returning to Bob largely ignoring both sides. Really, the only way those of us looking for a better experience on Bob is to make it for ourselves and to tune out all the morons flinging dung at each other from across the OWF.

[Slayer99]

Said the retired has-been.

Funny coming from a never-was.

Sponge joined Vox under the same circumstances that many people joined, after the world turned its back on him. If TPF [OOC]de-masks[/OOC] you, you're welcome to join too. After you've eaten crow and apologized to KaiserMartens.

LOL. You guys are funny. P.S. I had a cordial conversation with KM last week...to our mutual surprise.

Sponge's past transgressions lay at the feet of the same people that your continuing transgressions lay: His supporting allies, the powerbase that allowed and supported those actions, toadies like Echelon and MCXA et al.

Which goes to my earlier point about Vox's hypocrisy. Vox is no different than any other alliance. You'll back someone irrespective of previous transgressions so long as it's politically expedient for you to do so.

We'll accept anyone so long as they are committed to changing the world and taking out the trash. Just as I was created in the rending of GOONS, the Sponge you see today was created in the world's coniving. Blame yourselves, you've created a deep enemy with deeper connections.

Sponge's current status was created by his own conniving.

Some of us would love to wipe out TPF, some NPO, some GGA, some any number of others. It is lucky for you that while we push hardest and most feverish for change, when that day comes it will not be for us to decide--and even still, if it were it would not be in our hearts or our movement to do so.

Convenient out for you. You push for change but then fall back to it won't be for you to decide. For all Vox's carping about the current state of Planet Bob, if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd fully expect Vox and friends would love to see us all depart Planet Bob.

I was going to say that TPF lost its compass in the UjW, but seeign as how it was formed on betrayal, I don't see that a rise from more betrayal could be considered a loss.

You never had a compass...that much is clear.

[Slayer99]

OOC: That just makes you an irrelevant coward failure! If you want to be BIG SUCCESS you have to join BIG ALLIANCE and become IMPORTANT ENOUGH to be invited to GOVERNMENT SKYPE CALLS! Success defined by enjoyment is ridiculous! Everything is about power there is no other end to which this game can be played!!! Altruistic concern for the state of things is impossible!! NPO can't feel remorse for its actions so obviously nobody else can either it doesn't make sense raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! *eats child*

What's the matter Doitzel, not having any fun these days?

OOC: Actually there was every reason for it because the NPO's upper echelons were still using it as a means to defame sponge. They repeatedly referenced those logs in a misleading manner and the only way to make clear that they were full of it was to release them. If they did not want them used or released then they should not have so actively brought them into the game; of course, I'm sure they did so knowing full well that if he retaliated with the truth then they could assassinate his character with CN's version of Godwin -- OMG OOC ATTACKS!

We have been over this time and again. Everyone blames sponge for everything, but the truth is far, far less simple.

Just like everyone from Vox defends Sponge without skipping a beat. I find it amusing.

Il n'y a que les idiots qui ne changent pas d'avis.

Sponge did not "create" a world of blocs and deadlocks. His point is that while his alliance may have held many treaties during his reign, he had a pattern of leaving, destroying, and trying to destroy blocs. So in that sense, no, he did not create this world at all. And to attribute all of the diplomatic work of Polar to Sponge is ludicrous. When everyone declared war on Polar over him -- a deposed, nationless Emperor -- they cited his undiplomatic conduct and how MEAN he was to them. The diplomatic aptitude displayed by Polar previously was due more to RandomInterrupt than anyone else and that is why he, too, was forced by the NPO out of Polar.

So yes, that is what this all comes down to. Blame Random.

Pattern of leaving? Clever revisionist history. He left WUT for the express purpose of wiping out the what he called the "lulz" alliances. It had NOTHING to do with a disdain for blocs. The bottom line is that ES would have been perfectly happy running the big bloc rather than being a part of a big bloc.

[jerdge]

*Sigh* Told you I did, reckless is he. Now, matters are worse.

Appropriate reply!

____________________

[ooc]

That's about as likely as ES being relevant again.

How To Be Ignored Recipe.

To be ignored (by me: behold my ego) via the board settings, one must either:

1. Post some Peace Mode joke, against an outnumbered enemy. If possible (but it's not necessary), the enemy must be using Peace Mode as a tactical positioning, rather than a mean of safety.
   
2. Post something about someone else being "irrelevant".
   

Also - though not entirely needed - it greatly helps to do the above while attacking someone IRL.

On the other hand, posting such a content with the only purpose to be ignored may not work...

(Another one hits the ignore list...)

____________________

Of course, ES greatly contributed to make CN as it is now.

Thus, everybody should definitely make angry jokes about his chances to have a girl and that's entirely related with the game!

Meh.

[/ooc]

[Schattenmann]

Then let's add to your embarrassment. In the days leading up to the Bubblegum War, I warned Schattenman and Durim (who was also in the IRC channel at the time) that they should stick to their treaties and honor them. It would mean that Browncoats would get bloodied but it was the honorable thing to do and since BC wasn't the primary target and merely honoring treaties, I counseled, they would likely get off comparatively light in the end.

Instead, Schattenman chose "preventing a massive war involving Black Team" (his words) over his alliance and condemned it to death. He did so without sanction from anyone else in Browncoats. I had also warned him previously that choosing loyalty to Black Team over loyalty to Browncoats would end up being the death of him--some would argue that being in Vox is like being dead, but I digress.

Were it not for the fact that I had left Browncoats in search of the quiet life in a larger alliance among friends (RL is a harsh mistress), then I would have been there with Holloweyes and the rest of Browncoats and met my fate, leading the charge against those that opposed our allies. That things turned out much differently is both something I'm thankful for and also have a touch a regret about. Browncoats didn't deserve what happened to them. They had their failings as an alliance, but go down as they did. Sad.

Now see hear, dad, you know as well as I do that moving to Black had come up on more than one occassion and BDC would have been a strong ally there once we got over reps (5000 tech, 1/5th of which I had the funds/tech-on-hand to pay all by myself). The logs that got leaked were a pittance.

I'm not happy about what happened, but Browncoats' enemies-to-be in the GATO war had made it clear. loud and often and publicly, what they had in store for us if it ever came to war, and war is what it was coming to. Had a disgruntled member not leaked logs thinking he was being a retarded hero, it would have been 3 days or war followed by a bright future.

Browncoats was destroyed by the DCP bloc for giggles and by a lack of interest by anyone (you'll recall that after you left it was the amateur hour with me, Nintenderek, and Holloweyes being the most qualiied people left--not the best prognosis), not by the people I kept them out of war with.

Please don't let your disdain for TPF or any of the other major players lead you away from your own standards, my friend. The reason that Slayer is looked down upon by many people on Bob, is due to his own belief that pursuing and exposing other people's information is acceptable.

You're not a loony, so I know you have sense enough to know that Nintenderek is allowed ot have his own opinions inside an alliance without those being completely in line with the principles of the alliance.

I'm also with Hal on ES' newfound morality. I don't buy it for a minute. Not so long ago, ES was right at the center of everything that he now condemns. He once had power, but he lost it due to his own mistakes. Now, he naturally blames the people who took up arms against him, and aligns himself with an opposition group full of many people he fought against for a year or more. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Do you know that after Umar Ibn informed GOONS that I was in an alliance with Electron_Sponge my access was removed? After over a year of service discreet. But I'll tell you the same thing I told GOONS: Electron_Sponge did what Electron_Sponge wanted to do because he could. NPO, TOP, TPF, other WUT signatories are the ones that put the knife there as far as I'm concerned. And the same weasels did the same thing to Sponge as soon as Sponge got like GOONS was; more than they could handle. The world didn't have a problem with NpO while NpO had the Silent Emperor Assington, they felt safe and secure; no, they had a problem with a man that would run a powerful alliance like a man.

It is obvious to me that ES' union with Vox is an alliance of convenience, nothing more. To make him a Senator, and to see others attempt to defend past actions they were condemning in back rooms at the time, is sad, and once again makes me question whether Vox Populi is committed to creating a better Bob, or if they are overcome by their personal hatred of some of the people they feel have wronged them.

All in all, the powerful will do anything they can to retain their power. Conversely, those who lose their power will say and do nearly anything to regain at least some of what they lost, and get revenge in the process. As such, I have spent most of my time since returning to Bob largely ignoring both sides. Really, the only way those of us looking for a better experience on Bob is to make it for ourselves and to tune out all the morons flinging dung at each other from across the OWF.

And there are days I wanted to leave my castle and go feed Electron_Sponge a piece of his own $@! charbroiled on a platter for the UnJust War, and I know just where to go, but that was a long time ago, and Sponge went as far as his pals gave him power to. NpO didn't get buttsmashed over year old crap because it was suddenly possible, they got hit when-and-where because the resurgence of Sponge meant the resurgance of sovereignty and the real use of power. But--yes ironically as hell--the world post-UjW can't handle that, and therefore can't handle "relevent" Sponge so it was time to deal with the tiniest inkling of change the same way we've dealt with it for a year: dig up th emost insignificant little thing we can, the slightest of insult we can find, and destroy the seed before it grows.

Funny coming from a never-was.

Never fail to get a response from the big boys, though, do I? So insignificant that you can't let me slide, and that's as much importance as I've ever needed to make my ends meet.

LOL. You guys are funny. P.S. I had a cordial conversation with KM last week...to our mutual surprise.

So you'll be acnowledging your mistakes and giving Martens a leg-up if he re-incorporates Grosse Deutschland? Red herring.

Which goes to my earlier point about Vox's hypocrisy. Vox is no different than any other alliance. You'll back someone irrespective of previous transgressions so long as it's politically expedient for you to do so.

I don't know how the schools in Slayanic Wehrmacht are so I'll take it a little slower this time around: Vox will take a wide array of applicants whose current politics are aligned with our current politics, and so long as they know how to play by the rules.

Sponge's current status was created by his own conniving.

From 6 months ago. The timing of Polaris' shameful behavior was created by the "Coalition's" inability to do what Sponge could: Declare war when the CB is fresh, not when they get permission.

Convenient out for you. You push for change but then fall back to it won't be for you to decide. For all Vox's carping about the current state of Planet Bob, if the shoe were on the other foot, I'd fully expect Vox and friends would love to see us all depart Planet Bob.

Just the opposite: Very inconvenient. We are the vanguard of change, the prophesiers of the future, we are your foil. But we cannot force, and do not and will not seek to force, anyone else's hand. We are openess and information and logic and hope and we bring all that as best we can so that others will see and taste it and make up their minds for themselves to attain it.

You never had a compass...that much is clear.

O, Slayer, thou never knew me.

[Reason]

Should've posted this on a Wednesday.

[Electron Sponge]

Reports of my irrelevance have been greatly exaggerated, evidently. How can one be irrelevant and yet be blamed for all the ills of the world? How can one be blamed for the ills of the world when he hasn't now nor has ever had the power to mandate anything to the world at large? You all are worthless, spineless toadies who don't deserve to even speak my name let alone criticize me. Just who the $%&@ do you people think you are? I made things interesting, kept things stirred up, and certainly kept things fresh. Since my marginalization, what has happened? NOT A DAMN THING. I see all you people !@#$%*ing about how boring the game is now. It's pretty sad that someone who hasn't really done anything in like 7 months is a hot topic of conversation. Don't you guys all play CN too or is this SpongeNations? Why am I the only one with the guts to make stuff happen? You all can have fun holding each other's hands and practicing your kissing, I'm going to continue working toward your downfall.

Go $%&@ yourselves.

[lebubu]

I'm down with SpongeNations.

[Chief Savage Man]

This thread is now overflowing with truth.

[The Parasite]

Bros Before Hoes

How COULD you let the sacred oath down?

[Reason]

Reports of my irrelevance have been greatly exaggerated, evidently. How can one be irrelevant and yet be blamed for all the ills of the world? How can one be blamed for the ills of the world when he hasn't now nor has ever had the power to mandate anything to the world at large? You all are worthless, spineless toadies who don't deserve to even speak my name let alone criticize me. Just who the $%&@ do you people think you are? I made things interesting, kept things stirred up, and certainly kept things fresh. Since my marginalization, what has happened? NOT A DAMN THING. I see all you people !@#$%*ing about how boring the game is now. It's pretty sad that someone who hasn't really done anything in like 7 months is a hot topic of conversation. Don't you guys all play CN too or is this SpongeNations? Why am I the only one with the guts to make stuff happen? You all can have fun holding each other's hands and practicing your kissing, I'm going to continue working toward your downfall.

Go $%&@ yourselves.

Hahahahaha, oh man, I love Sponge. He is so true it hurts, but the truth won't move people. Not yet. Question is - when?

Edited February 2, 2009 by Pedron Niall

[Virillus]

I think this thread as a whole could benefit from far less absolutism. (not the vodka)

The fact is, not everything here is simple black and white. While Sponge has done some pretty cool and "game bettering" things in his CN tenure, he's also done a lot of "game worsening" things as well. The same holds true for every single globally influential nation and alliance this world as ever seen.

Are we in a bind right now? Absolutely, but I'm not going to waste my time trying to hurt those that put us in this situation. It's patently obvious that they (just like everyone else) don't like where we are, and didn't intend to put us here.

Sponge is a good man, despite his shortcomings. And the mistakes he may or may not have made in the past were all decisions that he felt were good ones at the time. He (like the rest of you) did not intend to personally, OOC, hurt anyone. Nor did he intend to hurt this game.

Similarly, we have Slayer. He is constantly demonized for his actions regarding Nordreich and other nations who may or may not be OOC/IC Nazi. Personally, I understand why others would hate the fact that he pursued others in game using OOC information, but I also fully understand why he did what he did, and I can assure it was for a noble cause. I'm not here to argue the validity of what he did, but I am here to argue that Slayer (like Sponge, and Doitzel, and Schattenman, and Nintenderek, and every IO in the Pacific order) is a good man (or woman) and made decisions that he saw, ultimately, as good ones.

Perhaps people are not taking full responsibility for their actions in the past. But maybe you should take a deep look into your own before criticizing them.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

This thread is now overflowing with truth.

I would say rather that it's overflowing with hubris, overweening egotism and/or rampant arrogance, take your pick.

Edit:

<snip>

Brings back memories; back in the days of Daemon Vower, 404, Ahkbar, Dumbwhiteguy and company.

I don't really remember you but DWG was a friend and squad-mate of mine back in the day. Say hello to him for me if you're still in touch.

Edited February 3, 2009 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[ChairmanHal]

Now see hear, dad, you know as well as I do that moving to Black had come up on more than one occassion and BDC would have been a strong ally there once we got over reps (5000 tech, 1/5th of which I had the funds/tech-on-hand to pay all by myself). The logs that got leaked were a pittance.

I know that moving to Black had been discussed and that ultimately the idea was allowed to rot on the vine. There was no plan to move to Black.

Even if there was a promise of free pizza and Bacardi, it was a *very high* risk maneuver with a high probability of exposure by those within Browncoats who would have nothing of it because it totally went against their sense of duty and honor, let alone those in BDC who would have found the whole idea beyond unethical.

Everything that followed was predictable.

And now that you bring up Holloweyes, it's a shame he doesn't read the OWF on a regular basis because I'm fairly certain he'd have more than a few words for you. Some of them may even come out as something other than gibberish characters covering bad words.

[ChairmanHal]

Reports of my irrelevance have been greatly exaggerated, evidently. How can one be irrelevant and yet be blamed for all the ills of the world? How can one be blamed for the ills of the world when he hasn't now nor has ever had the power to mandate anything to the world at large? You all are worthless, spineless toadies who don't deserve to even speak my name let alone criticize me. Just who the $%&@ do you people think you are? I made things interesting, kept things stirred up, and certainly kept things fresh. Since my marginalization, what has happened? NOT A DAMN THING. I see all you people !@#$%*ing about how boring the game is now. It's pretty sad that someone who hasn't really done anything in like 7 months is a hot topic of conversation. Don't you guys all play CN too or is this SpongeNations? Why am I the only one with the guts to make stuff happen? You all can have fun holding each other's hands and practicing your kissing, I'm going to continue working toward your downfall.

Go $%&@ yourselves.

One word for you: Zoloft.

[Slayer99]

Never fail to get a response from the big boys, though, do I? So insignificant that you can't let me slide, and that's as much importance as I've ever needed to make my ends meet.

So you'll be acnowledging your mistakes and giving Martens a leg-up if he re-incorporates Grosse Deutschland? Red herring.

There was no mistake with NoV.

I don't know how the schools in Slayanic Wehrmacht are so I'll take it a little slower this time around: Vox will take a wide array of applicants whose current politics are aligned with our current politics, and so long as they know how to play by the rules.

I'll go even slower so you understand my point. Your "wide array of applicants" are only aligned politically because it's expedient to do so because they have nothing else.

Just the opposite: Very inconvenient. We are the vanguard of change, the prophesiers of the future, we are your foil. But we cannot force, and do not and will not seek to force, anyone else's hand. We are openess and information and logic and hope and we bring all that as best we can so that others will see and taste it and make up their minds for themselves to attain it.

Logic is seriously not a friend of Vox...though I admit you were fresh some time ago...now you're stale.

O, Slayer, thou never knew me.

I know enough to know that I don't like you and suffice it to say it's not like we have a mutual admiration for one another. A mutual loathing would be more accurate.