Blocking Touchdowns

[AL Bundy]

 

In times of war on Bob, there exists an accepted protocol for surrendering. When a nation desires to surrender, it is required to post a formal surrender in the appropriate thread on the OWF. Upon acceptance, peace is granted based on the agreed-upon terms and conditions. This procedure has been previously recognized during a conflict when a nation from The Wolves sought to move to Claws from TW and a surrender was required.

 

However, The Wolves cannot accept the disrespectful and inflammatory posts made by Sabcat as a genuine surrender. As a result, The Wolves consider themselves to be in a continued state of war with Sabcat of Sabcat Island until a formal peace or surrender is agreed upon.

 

Moreover, the actions of accepting a member who was at war without surrendering and subsequently attacking TW (The Wolves) when they continue the war with that nation are considered multiple acts of aggression.

 

Thus, The Wolves formally request PGSG to declare an immediate peace with our nation. We also request the freedom to take appropriate measures against the nation that declared war on us, until a formal peace agreement is reached and mutually accepted by our parties.

 

The Wolves:

Al Bundy

Edited August 2, 2023 by AL Bundy

[firingline]

Seems to be the sort of thing a halfway decent mutual ally would mediate.

 

Hard to imagine an alliance allowing Ally A to harbor a nation at war with Ally B, let alone allow Ally A to directly attack Ally B for continuing that war. Seems to go against 15+ years of precedent!

Edited August 2, 2023 by firingline

[Lyanna Mormont]

 

It makes sense that Bundy and The Wolves would not accept the surrender of Sabcat because even White Chocolate, his ally, did not think Sabcat surrendered and she very nicely asked him to do it correctly:

 

 

 

Not to mention that even PGSG's Gov member did not think that Sabcat surrendered:
 

 

 

 

 

Which means that Sabcat did not surrender, it was not accepted as noted by Bundy above, and Sabcat is a runaway from war and now PGSG has attacked The Wolves.

 

@AL Bundy As your steadfast ally, Non Grata stands firmly by your side, dutifully committed to upholding our treaty with you. While our current discussions are held in private, it is imperative that we make a public declaration: Non Grata shall not idly tolerate any aggression from PGSG towards our cherished ally, The Wolves. PGSG is sheltering a runaway from the ongoing war, and in light of this, Non Grata will resolutely defend and protect The Wolves from any harm.

 

Take note: If PGSG expresses discontent with Sabcat's surrender, they should have considered their actions beforehand, as their ally, UCR, compelled a member of The Wolves to surrender in order to exit the conflict. The precedents for this war were set by UCR, the commies, and Claws. The Wolves are merely adhering to the rules imposed upon them in this situation.

[firingline]

The war was going so poorly for the Commies that PGS decided to harbor one of their fighters under their AA and use it as a pretext to enter the war when he was inevitably hit.

 

@Lyanna Mormont you're actually missing the most relevant screenshot - where the very gov member who attacked The Wolves today admitted that Sabcat did not surrender.

 

[DavidMustaine]

 

 

gl Al & company.  

 

[SirWilliam]

It’s PGS you Neanderthals 

[Lyanna Mormont]

6 minutes ago, firingline said:

The war was going so poorly for the Commies that PGS decided to harbor one of their fighters under their AA and use it as a pretext to enter the war when he was inevitably hit.

 

@Lyanna Mormont you're actually missing the most relevant screenshot - where the very gov member who attacked The Wolves today admitted that Sabcat did not surrender.

 

 

FL, you are correct. Thank you for including it for those who are not in discord. I appreciate it!

[lilweirdward]

Frankly, I think it’s an admirable show of respect for their mutual ally that The Wolves are not yet treating this like the blatant act of war that it is. 

[The R00STER]

I uh.. I believe they treat supergroup as a single word. So it is PGS. Not PGSG. But I guess that's not super important. I dunno. I just like to get things right. Guess I'm a perfectionist. 🙈

[Lyanna Mormont]

Just now, lilweirdward said:

Frankly, I think it’s an admirable show of respect for their mutual ally that The Wolves are not yet treating this like the blatant act of war that it is. 

 

I think Bundy is trying to show a lot of restraint because of his history with Claws, since they are allied to PGSG as well as to TW. Now, the question really is, why did PGSG decide that Claws was not worthy of the same level of respect shown by Bundy?

[Jason8]

Let's break this down.

 

1) Sabcat left LSF to rejoin PGS because there were no more Wolves nations in range that weren't hiding in peace mode.

2) Al Bundy asked CLAWS to handle the dirty work to request a formal surrender from Sabcat

3) Sabcat posted a resignation in the resignation/surrender thread, per CLAWS/TW request
4) Al Bundy wasn't pleased about Sabcat's resignation and requested CLAWS to continue handling the dirty work

5) masterhakai and I repeatedly stated that if Al had issues, our DMs were open

6) Since The Wolves don't have any fighters left in range, they borrowed a nation from Non Grata to do the dirty work.

 

I'll be the first to admit (as I have previously per the screenshots posted above this) that Sabcat's post was not a surrender in word nor spirit.  However, had The Wolves reached out to PGS Management before declaring war, this situation would have been avoided.

 

Since I have declared war on the offending Wolves nation, I have opened talks with The Wolves, masterhakai and I have been discussing the issue via private channels.

[SeaBeeGipson]

What a fun filled Tuesday Night. The full moon is out. The air is hot. The ground is hot. Everything is hot.

Wait, is Bundy hosting a Tuesday night football game? What a time to be alive.

[firingline]

Just now, Jason8 said:

Let's break this down.

 

1) Sabcat left LSF to rejoin PGS because there were no more Wolves nations in range that weren't hiding in peace mode.

2) Al Bundy asked CLAWS to handle the dirty work to request a formal surrender from Sabcat

3) Sabcat posted a resignation in the resignation/surrender thread, per CLAWS/TW request
4) Al Bundy wasn't pleased about Sabcat's resignation and requested CLAWS to continue handling the dirty work

5) masterhakai and I repeatedly stated that if Al had issues, our DMs were open

6) Since The Wolves don't have any fighters left in range, they borrowed a nation from Non Grata to do the dirty work.

 

I'll be the first to admit (as I have previously per the screenshots posted above this) that Sabcat's post was not a surrender in word nor spirit.  However, had The Wolves reached out to PGS Management before declaring war, this situation would have been avoided.

 

Since I have declared war on the offending Wolves nation, I have opened talks with The Wolves, masterhakai and I have been discussing the issue via private channels.

 

There is no such thing as "resigning" a war. You surrender to withdraw from a war. Just as was required of the TW nation who joined CLAWS. A surrender. That has been the standard for decades. It was clearly communicated that this was the expectation, including in the surrender thread itself by high gov of a mutual ally. A post that was ignored by Sabcat and, apparently, the rest of PGS gov.

 

PGS then accepted a nation that was still at war with TW into their alliance - a clear violation of international norms and decades of precedent.

 

When a Wolf continued the ongoing war with Sabcat - who even PGS gov admitted hadn't surrendered - PGS government immediately, with no conversation declared war on a member of The Wolves.

 

You talk about avoiding the situation. The clear way to do this is to require a surrender before admitting a member at war into your alliance, and verifying that The Wolves accept the surrender. By admitting a member at war, and refusing to force him to issue an honest surrender even against the wishes of your ally, you made conflict inevitable. 

[Lyanna Mormont]

6 minutes ago, Jason8 said:

Let's break this down.

 

1) Sabcat left LSF to rejoin PGS because there were no more Wolves nations in range that weren't hiding in peace mode.

2) Al Bundy asked CLAWS to handle the dirty work to request a formal surrender from Sabcat

3) Sabcat posted a resignation in the resignation/surrender thread, per CLAWS/TW request
4) Al Bundy wasn't pleased about Sabcat's resignation and requested CLAWS to continue handling the dirty work

5) masterhakai and I repeatedly stated that if Al had issues, our DMs were open

6) Since The Wolves don't have any fighters left in range, they borrowed a nation from Non Grata to do the dirty work.

 

I'll be the first to admit (as I have previously per the screenshots posted above this) that Sabcat's post was not a surrender in word nor spirit.  However, had The Wolves reached out to PGS Management before declaring war, this situation would have been avoided.

 

Since I have declared war on the offending Wolves nation, I have opened talks with The Wolves, masterhakai and I have been discussing the issue via private channels.

 

Jason,

 

PGSG and TW have a mutual ally, Claws. Claws being the mutual ally of both groups was asked to step in and discuss matters with your alliance. That is standard and friendly behavior. If you are upset that Sabcat was asked to surrender, again, you should talk to your allies, Claws, UCR, and GATO, since they are the reason that stipulation was made in this war because when a member of TW tried to leave the war without surrendering and join Claws, he was made to surrender on the forums, which he did. Do you see how this is just asking for consistency? 

 

Claws was not asked to "do dirty work", Claws was just asked to act as an ally of both alliances. 

 

 

[Van Hoo X]

I have no idea what is going on, do not grasp the situation, and refuse to read anything over 1.5 lines of text ... which, historically speaking, makes me the perfect person to weigh in here. What I have to say is this:

 

Nukes for everyone.

 

 

[The R00STER]

6 minutes ago, Lyanna Mormont said:

 

Jason,

 

PGSG and TW have a mutual ally, Claws. Claws being the mutual ally of both groups was asked to step in and discuss matters with your alliance. That is standard and friendly behavior. If you are upset that Sabcat was asked to surrender, again, you should talk to your allies, Claws, UCR, and GATO, since they are the reason that stipulation was made in this war because when a member of TW tried to leave the war without surrendering and join Claws, he was made to surrender on the forums, which he did. Do you see how this is just asking for consistency? 

 

Claws was not asked to "do dirty work", Claws was just asked to act as an ally of both alliances. 

 

 

PGS... just saying. 

[AL Bundy]

11 minutes ago, Terrence Krillins said:

PGS... just saying. 

HAHAHA everyone elses post are too long....... this is acceptable haha

 

Yes it think it is PGS, but idk. Just a crazy football legend here.....

 

AL

[firingline]

1 minute ago, AL Bundy said:

HAHAHA everyone elses post are too long....... this is acceptable haha

 

Yes it think it is PGS, but idk. Just a crazy football legend here.....

 

AL

 

They use PGS, but PGSG makes more sense...

[dev0win]

23 minutes ago, Lyanna Mormont said:

 

Jason,

 

PGSG and TW have a mutual ally, Claws. Claws being the mutual ally of both groups was asked to step in and discuss matters with your alliance. That is standard and friendly behavior. If you are upset that Sabcat was asked to surrender, again, you should talk to your allies, Claws, UCR, and GATO, since they are the reason that stipulation was made in this war because when a member of TW tried to leave the war without surrendering and join Claws, he was made to surrender on the forums, which he did. Do you see how this is just asking for consistency? 

 

Claws was not asked to "do dirty work", Claws was just asked to act as an ally of both alliances. 

 

 

So PTSD are being complete hypocrites by complaining about this?

[DavidMustaine]

Something tells me this thread will probably get to 20 or 30 pages and I'll just end up saying this again.

 

 

 

 

 

Hopefully at least there's some good trash talk somewhere along the line.  

 

p.s. polar sux.   

[Lyanna Mormont]

14 minutes ago, dev0win said:

So PTSD are being complete hypocrites by complaining about this?

 

PGSG is indeed.

[Kapleo]

59 minutes ago, DavidMustaine said:

p.s. polar sux.

Puck Folar

[Sabcat]

On 7/6/2023 at 6:09 AM, AL Bundy said:

 

He fights 4 wars (one against a nation that did nothing and we kicked) and he acts like he's the best thing since sliced bread hahaha.... all hail king pussycat!!!! 

 

AL

 

Post something when you actually do something... like score 4 touchdowns in one high-school football game! 

I didn't surrender. I resigned from LSF. I thought that was clear from my post, apparently not. 

[Sabcat]

I mean, I think it was also clear from my post that I'd turn up back on the LSF or other AA if there was a Wolves target. All Al had to do was drop me a message saying "Hi, we have someone new for you to play with" and I'd have come out to play. Getting all upset because he wanted a surrender - a ludicrous demand given there was no one even able to attack me, what was he wanting me to surrender to, boredom? - seems like a man grasping for any kind of consolation in a  self created mess. Here we are though. 

[Cydonian Knight]

8 minutes ago, Sabcat said:

I mean, I think it was also clear from my post that I'd turn up back on the LSF or other AA if there was a Wolves target. All Al had to do was drop me a message saying "Hi, we have someone new for you to play with" and I'd have come out to play. Getting all upset because he wanted a surrender - a ludicrous demand given there was no one even able to attack me, what was he wanting me to surrender to, boredom? - seems like a man grasping for any kind of consolation in a  self created mess. Here we are though. 

How's that second day of war, non-nuclear, anarchy going on for you?