Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[hartfw]

Since we told our guy that warred you in the first place not to keep attacking you

 

Didn't stop attacks a single day, or offer peace ever.

[Monty of the Herm]

I love you <3

Funny thing was, we were never going to declare on Polar to begin with. We were gonna hit Doom Squad and talk their allies into playing with us in DestructoPixel. Let's be honest, there are two parts to this. First, we (TSC) wanted to up our casualties and so that's all fine and dandy. On the other hand, NPO knows this is overkill and that we wereat a disadvantage without them getting involved.

My personal thoughts: if Umbrella and Sengoku (and let's not forget DoD!) legitimately need help with a 28-man AA, you should get better allies. I love the Sengoku guys I've warred with so far, and I'm relatively confident that they don't need you to fight in a war when we were dogpiled from the beginning. So basically, either you need a whole new war staff (seriously, your allies got involved before you, the original party), or you see an easy target(SNX is tied up, and asking AGW to come in would be asking them to commit suicide, and I'm not down with that). Or we're putting up an even better fight than I realized, in which case I'll give myself a good pat on the back.

Regardless, I'm disappointed with you guys. Seriously, if you're going to dogpile onto us in keeping with the current fashion, at least give everyone a war or two. I've got 2 defensive slots open for you, come and get 'em.

Edit: I just checked to see why I hadn't realized you considered yourselves at war with us, and I discovered that literally one of your guys hit one of ours. I almost fell out of my chair laughing! Since we told our guy that raided you in the first place not to keep attacking you, maybe we can let that one war expire and call it even, eh?

 

1. We're not Polar.

2. You said it yourself as the "original party" we're already involved we're just acknowledging the fact more officially now since you decided not to officially declare war on us to begin with. You decided to take a more unofficial route to war whether you ended up fighting who you expected to or not. That's just poor war planning on your part if you couldn't keep your membership in line to hit the front you wanted to hit.

3. Last time I checked supporting your allies in war is a good and honorable thing, so I don't see why you're getting all upset at us for doing the honorable thing by supporting our allies in a war in which we were attacked and already involved.

4. If you consider fighting 3 alliances at once a "dogpile" that's rather laughable considering what real dogpiles have occured in previous wars to this one especially since CN is about a third the size of what it was at its peak in terms of # of players. This is nothing compared to wars in the past.

5. Total NS engaged isn't the only factor in waging a war in CN you have to have nations to fight at all levels I'm assuming we're officially recognizing hostilities to help on all levels of this front in the conflict.

6. Telling a nation to stop fighting isn't enough they have to actually stop and offer peace, and possibly payment for damages, if you really don't want an alliance to escalate the conflict.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Monty of the Herm

[shavar]

 Seeing that less then an hour and 15 minutes after  "that one nation" hit a NPO nation  Umbrella pilled on top of us followed shortly by Sangoku ..   why would  he offer peace or stop fighting?  

 

  We can keep talking in circles but what is the point..  If we have been at war from that night this announcement would have been "recognition of Hostilities"   not Declaration of War..  but in the end  it is all the same  NPO and TSC are at war.  Cool  now lets get to it, I expect to see a huge blitz soon or my dreams of the finely oiled war machine will be dashed..  (please fill my open slots)

[Alex0827a]

 
 
  We can keep talking in circles but what is the point..  If we have been at war from that night this announcement would have been "recognition of Hostilities"   not Declaration of War..  but in the end  it is all the same  NPO and TSC are at war.  Cool  now lets get to it, I expect to see a huge blitz soon or my dreams of the finely oiled war machine will be dashed..  (please fill my open slots)

This. Also my bad, was elsewhere in my mind when I called you Polar. To clarify something else, I'm in no way mad, unless it's about not having full war slots ;)

[Kream]

Moar WAR! 

[Schattenmann]

 

And of course actions have consequences, and in my experience here extremely long term consequences, since alliances can still be attacked to this day for actions they took well over half a decade ago.

Such as?

[keeology]

 Seeing that less then an hour and 15 minutes after  "that one nation" hit a NPO nation  Umbrella pilled on top of us followed shortly by Sangoku ..   why would  he offer peace or stop fighting?  
 
  We can keep talking in circles but what is the point..  If we have been at war from that night this announcement would have been "recognition of Hostilities"   not Declaration of War..  but in the end  it is all the same  NPO and TSC are at war.  Cool  now lets get to it, I expect to see a huge blitz soon or my dreams of the finely oiled war machine will be dashed..  (please fill my open slots)

Well said my friend

[Monty of the Herm]

Such as?

 

Part of Polar's agenda (I'm not saying it was the primary reason) in fighting us in the last war was to bury the hatchet with us from stuff that happened well before Karma. By making us burn for it well over 5 years later.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Monty of the Herm

[Bob Janova]

Please, no e-lawyering without an e-law license.  Otherwise you are committing unauthorized practice of e-law, and I will prosecute you in the Lawyeria courts.  No need for that, right?  I actually have an e-lawyer license, therefore I will take care of all e-lawyering.  

My e-lawyer licence was granted way back in 2007.

[Letum]

Part of Polar's agenda (I'm not saying it was the primary reason) in fighting us in the last war was to bury the hatchet with us from stuff that happened well before Karma. By making us burn for it well over 5 years later.

Yeah, that is rather stupid, but it's also unfortunately a common thing in alliances. Once the dogs of war are let loose, people feel free to capitalize on every slight since forever. It's a sort of ex-post-facto rationalization process.

I find it a bit reprehensible but I'll just settle for it being an area where I'll try to exceed CN's low standards.

[Mogar]

Yeah, that is rather stupid, but it's also unfortunately a common thing in alliances. Once the dogs of war are let loose, people feel free to capitalize on every slight since forever. It's a sort of ex-post-facto rationalization process.

I find it a bit reprehensible but I'll just settle for it being an area where I'll try to exceed CN's low standards.

So you're not going to burn the entire polarsphere for 4 months straight over a single nation's actions against DS?

[Letum]

So you're not going to burn the entire polarsphere for 4 months straight over a single nation's actions against DS?

What in the devil are you talking about? How is that relevant to anything I just said?

[Mogar]

What in the devil are you talking about? How is that relevant to anything I just said?

In your DoW you said you would not support punitive terms, how long does the polarsphere have to burn for the actions of one SNX member in your opinion?

[Letum]

In your DoW you said you would not support punitive terms, how long does the polarsphere have to burn for the actions of one SNX member in your opinion?

Again, what the hell does this have to do with anything I just said? You realize we are talking about what it means to carry forward age-old grudges right?

[Mogar]

Again, what the hell does this have to do with anything I just said? You realize we are talking about what it means to carry forward age-old grudges right?

I realize that you do not hold age old grudges, considering you are now allied to the only reason you got the terms you did from last war, and in fact that treaty is why this thread's DoW occurred in the first place. I am merely asking a question of you since you apparently want to end the cycle, how long do you feel is appropriate, since a long war will create more grudges.

[Letum]

I realize that you do not hold age old grudges, considering you are now allied to the only reason you got the terms you did from last war, and in fact that treaty is why this thread's DoW occurred in the first place. I am merely asking a question of you since you apparently want to end the cycle, how long do you feel is appropriate, since a long war will create more grudges.

The cycle will not end via people being nicer to each other. We tried nice. It didn't work like that. Ultimately people will still have reasons to go to war, people will still have reasons to stand by their allies, and so long as someone is a winner, there will be a corresponding loser. Losers don't like losing.

There is, of course, some level of moderation necessary with regards to behavior that is outright damaging to the community. but there is nothing particularly spectacular about this war compared to all others before it that needs to be moderated.

The length of it is something to be determined more by the political objectives of each party in the coalition rather than any sense of "appropriateness". You may have mistaken my dislike of vindictiveness and long grudges as me being "nice" - that is not the case. War is war, and I see nothing explicitly wrong with being harsh within it - and saw nothing wrong with it when we were the target. Similarly, I see nothing wrong with being nice. I am happy to be anywhere between the two extremes depending on how each scenario impacts everything I value. What I *do* care about is the reasons for how far you are willing to go. If it is done out of spite and petty emotions, then it is a flawed and disappointing way of viewing the world. If it is done out of reasoning and logic, then it is rational - as humans are meant to be.

[The Zigur]

A rousing condemnation of Gramlins and other lulz alliances.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

The motive of any war is to eliminate a threat or potential threat to either yourself or your friends. The war will go until that situation occurs I imagine.

[Lamorak]

The motive of any war is to eliminate a threat or potential threat to either yourself or your friends. The war will go until that situation occurs I imagine.

 

While this may be a motive, there are also other motives as well.

[Monty of the Herm]

A rousing condemnation of Gramlins and other lulz alliances.

 

Letum's showing his distaste for the practice regardless and is acknowledging the fact that it has become a norm within the game in response to me pointing out how Polar made us burn for a grudge they held against us for 6-7 years in the last war, which is only one example of many. So pot meet kettle.

 

There is no moral high ground to be had when your very own alliance used the exact same reasoning for rolling us last war. You're just showing how much of a two-faced fool you are.

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited December 2, 2014 by Monty of the Herm

[Lamorak]

 

 

 

Letum's showing his distaste for the practice regardless and is acknowledging the fact that it has become a norm within the game in response to me pointing out how Polar made us burn for a grudge they held against us for 6-7 years in the last war, which is only one example of many. So pot meet kettle.

 

There is no moral high ground to be had when your very own alliance used the exact same reasoning for rolling us last war. You're just showing how much of a two-faced fool you are.

 

Edit: Spelling

 

Maybe you got rolled for being associated with an alliance that wanted to roll us for month prior and speaking openly about wanting to roll us for month prior? Maybe that grudge you speak of was an added bonus for some members being around long enough to care while the majority of Polaris wasnt around long enough to really care about that grudge? 

 

Edit: Wow that quote system...

Edited December 2, 2014 by Lamorak

[Monty of the Herm]

 

 

Maybe you got rolled for being associated with an alliance that wanted to roll us for month prior and speaking openly about wanting to roll us for month prior? Maybe that grudge you speak of was an added bonus for some members being around long enough to care while the majority of Polaris wasnt around long enough to really care about that grudge? 

 

Edit: Wow that quote system...

 

That may have been the primary reason, hence why my original post about it acknowledged that it was secondary to the "threat" NSO and NG posed, but there were numerous times both Dajobo and Grub acknowledged directly to us that part of why you guys rolled us was to settle Polar's grudge against us, there's no refuting this.

[Lamorak]

 

That may have been the primary reason, hence why my original post about it acknowledged that it was secondary to the "threat" NSO and NG posed, but there were numerous times both Dajobo and Grub acknowledged directly to us that part of why you guys rolled us was to settle Polar's grudge against us, there's no refuting this.

 

How did I refute that when I was saying it was an added bonus for some members? 

Edited December 2, 2014 by Lamorak

[Monty of the Herm]

 

How did I refute that when I was saying it was added bonus for some members? 

 

I'm not arguing the point that your main motivation for rolling us last war was based in your leadership's paranoia over 6-month old logs which was a perceived threat from our allies, and by extension us.

 

But at the same time they took it as the opportunity to settle a 6-7 year grudge. So to try to claim moral high ground on the issue when your alliance took the opportunity to roll us with that being one of several of your reasons for rolling us doesn't do away with the fact that you did the exact same thing last war. So there's nothing for you, or Tywin, or anyone in Polar to try to argue that point in this discussion/debate, it's just foolish.

 

Edit: Grammar

Edited December 2, 2014 by Monty of the Herm

[Lamorak]

 

I'm not arguing the point that your main motivation for rolling us last war was based in your leadership's paranoia over 6-month old logs which was a perceived threat from our allies, and by extension us, but at the same time they took it as the opportunity to settle a 6-7 year grudge so to try to claim moral high ground on the issue when your alliance took the opportunity to roll us with that being one of several of your reasons for rolling us doesn't do away with the fact that you did the exact same thing last war so there's nothing for you, or Tywin, or anyone in Polar to try to argue that point in this discussion/debate, it's just foolish.

 

Edit: Grammar

 

Please say that sentence in one breath without collapsing. You also dont need to use the word "opportunity" as it probably shortens this sentence by half..Still, good luck on the non-collapsing part,

 

Also, you may not grasp this little fact as an member of Pacifica, but there can also be different kinds of motivations for a war between the membership and the leadership of an alliance.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Lamorak