Topic - Citadel DoW

[kongland]

I don't particularly care about any of the alliances involved here (or any alliance outside of Specify Other, for that matter), but a few things are self-evident:

 

1.) Citadel could not have avoided a down-declare at this point without including TPC, which nobody believed was a realistic possibility. If you did, you're deluded enough that you probably deserved to get hit.

 

2.) Citadel could have made this into less of a down-declare through including SUN, Misfits, RE, or NDO. However...

 

3.) Citadel does not care that this war is perceived as a down-declare; they consider this a score-settling war and nothing else. Therefore, adding another couple dozen nations that would need to be hit would be counter-productive.

 

4.) TE politics are petty and bitter, and grudges are held even from round-to-round. Considering that this is the case, and that this has seemingly been the case for a long time, neither Warriors nor Ordo Paradoxia should have been too surprised by this war. By the same token, Citadel shouldn't be surprised if Warriors and/or Ordo Paradoxia make this the basis of their next vengeance quest, either later in this round or in a future round. This sort of thing tends to be cyclical, and all parties feed into it.

 

5.) Citadel declared 55 wars in its initial pre-update blitz. That's certainly not a bad blitz by any measure, but I'm surprised they weren't able to surpass our 7/7 record of 63 wars.

You are right,  it seems OP wants to have the last word - always, doesn't matter that they said the first one.  Always one more offensive war  - don't you dare to respond in kind. Therefore, nobody expects them to repent or whatever. Looking forward to many rounds of fighting :) We have to fight someone, isn't it so?   Could be OP  with a few wars  per round  as well  and with whoever wants to join the eternal TE struggle :). What's the point of attacking friendly/neutral alliances, when we have a hostile alliance as a volunteer ? :)

 

It's only logical, as Spock would've said :)

Edited July 14, 2013 by kongland

[KingBilly1]

I don't particularly care about any of the alliances involved here (or any alliance outside of Specify Other, for that matter), but a few things are self-evident:
 
1.) Citadel could not have avoided a down-declare at this point without including TPC, which nobody believed was a realistic possibility. If you did, you're deluded enough that you probably deserved to get hit.
 
2.) Citadel could have made this into less of a down-declare through including SUN, Misfits, RE, or NDO. However...
 
3.) Citadel does not care that this war is perceived as a down-declare; they consider this a score-settling war and nothing else. Therefore, adding another couple dozen nations that would need to be hit would be counter-productive.
 
4.) TE politics are petty and bitter, and grudges are held even from round-to-round. Considering that this is the case, and that this has seemingly been the case for a long time, neither Warriors nor Ordo Paradoxia should have been too surprised by this war. By the same token, Citadel shouldn't be surprised if Warriors and/or Ordo Paradoxia make this the basis of their next vengeance quest, either later in this round or in a future round. This sort of thing tends to be cyclical, and all parties feed into it.
 
5.) Citadel declared 55 wars in its initial pre-update blitz. That's certainly not a bad blitz by any measure, but I'm surprised they weren't able to surpass our 7/7 record of 63 wars.

adding us Misfits into would have been worse... Yes we have the member count, but we just got ass whooped off TPC and our ANS is 1/3 of Citadels. Heh... If TPC never hit us, we could have possibly went 1v1 with Citadel

[Schad]

Shouldn't Warriors and OPs generals make a difference here?

 

Not really, no; they'll boost your GAs/air attacks a bit, though not to an otherworldly degree, and they certainly don't have an effect that approaches a 4:1 nuke natio. 

[KingBilly1]

 
Not really, no; they'll boost your GAs/air attacks a bit, though not to an otherworldly degree, and they certainly don't have an effect that approaches a 4:1 nuke natio. 

that 10% extra on top of the pentagons 20% will give nations a 30% bonus against nations without the pentagon..... Which more than adds up for infra differences.

Just need to use the nukes tactically.

Citadel were in a tough situation... Either updeclare or downdeclare, and well that is an easy choice. Remember and updeclare would leave them outnumbered on nations.

I think people forget, these wars always last 5 days therefor the damage done during those 5 days to your nation will hardly ever be different! If you lose, the losses will still be the same as a fair fight... Edited July 14, 2013 by EddyH

[Polarbear]

ahh classic Citadel war.  do i get someone my own size fighting me nope, i get the guys with 100 more tech and 1k more infra attacking me.  if i didnt know any better i would think they dont want to have a war where they will actually take damage, and are instead looking for a curb stomp weird i know

[Auctor]

Not really, no; they'll boost your GAs/air attacks a bit, though not to an otherworldly degree, and they certainly don't have an effect that approaches a 4:1 nuke natio. 

 

This for sure. Nukes still are a huge advantage over even the very best generals. +10% battle strength or w/e doesn't mean very much if you're getting nuked before defending.

[mpetes]

I dont get why ppl complain about this cit has always done stuff like this. I wouldnt expect anything else from them..

stay butthurt citadel

 

o/

[KingBilly1]

You all knew this would happen when you all made 'Downdeclares' of your own! Why did none of you hit Citadel?

Cybernations Tournament Edition - Where double standards is a way of life!

[Schad]

that 10% extra on top of the pentagons 20% will give nations a 30% bonus against nations without the pentagon..... Which more than adds up for infra differences.

 

Just need to use the nukes tactically.

Citadel were in a tough situation... Either updeclare or downdeclare, and well that is an easy choice. Remember and updeclare would leave them outnumbered on nations.

I think people forget, these wars always last 5 days therefor the damage done during those 5 days to your nation will hardly ever be different! If you lose, the losses will still be the same as a fair fight...

 

1. That doesn't add up for infra differences.

 

2. Having to use nukes 'tactically' means having to use far less than one's opponents. Citadel can pretty well ensure that all of the top nations in both TPC/Warriors gets nuked every day until war's end, at which point they will be smoking piles of rubble. The reverse is not true.

 

3. They were in a tough spot. It does seem like a missed opportunity, however; desire for revenge aside, their nuclear coverage and (I'd imagine) considerable warchest advantage meant that they could have declared on, say, 600k worth of brand name alliances and still been heavy favourites. That's always better for chest-thumpery after. 

 

4. I can assure you, the losses are generally pretty different. 

[GetaBeer]

2. Having to use nukes 'tactically' means having to use far less than one's opponents. Citadel can pretty well ensure that all of the top nations in both TPC/Warriors gets nuked every day until war's end, at which point they will be smoking piles of rubble. The reverse is not true.

ain't no general that can protect against this

[Azaghul]

As a member of Citadel this round, after being in OP last round and several rounds before that, I have to say that I'm dissapointed at all of the rhetoric in this thread.  Not that we are warring, but the constant cycles of down declares as "revenge".  Regardless of who did what to do in the past, wars are a lot more fun when they are even.

 

Unfortunately, Citadel was/is in a position where we were so top and nuke heavy that it was impossible to get a war that was even in all respects.  It was impossible to declare a war that wasn't a down declare in some respects.  We probably could take on more NS, hopefully another alliance decides to join in the fray. 

 

Good luck to my friends in OP.  :)

Edited July 14, 2013 by Azaghul

[SwazzTE]

Polarbear, on 14 Jul 2013 - 03:41, said:

You know what you have done here?  you have made Swazz right.  if you really wanted this to be even you would have thrown TPC in with us as well.  May heaven help us all Swazz was right *goes off in a corner and cries*

 

 

 

Good luck to both sides, however it's obvious Warriors and OP need it more. I wouldnt doubt... any extracurricular activities going on long after this war is declared over. These round to round feuds make the game worth playing and enjoyable to all. It's a great experience when you come back round after round and fight your same arch nemesis. 

[Vespassianus]

What could be better than some grudge wars? Only revenge for them :D

Edited July 14, 2013 by Vespassianus

[kongland]

As a member of Citadel this round, after being in OP last round and several rounds before that, I have to say that I'm dissapointed at all of the rhetoric in this thread.  Not that we are warring, but the constant cycles of down declares as "revenge".  Regardless of who did what to do in the past, wars are a lot more fun when they are even.

 

Unfortunately, Citadel was/is in a position where we were so top and nuke heavy that it was impossible to get a war that was even in all respects.  It was impossible to declare a war that wasn't a down declare in some respects.  We probably could take on more NS, hopefully another alliance decides to join in the fray. 

 

Good luck to my friends in OP.  :)

Azaghul, I don't like those wars either, but I'm appalled by by OPs attitude: either be submissive or get those down declare cycles, which we didn't start. Your suggestions?

[HDSupreme]

B-)

 

           Profound declarations about the reasons why or how these Wars are planned aside...  HAVE A GREAT

 

SLAPPING,WHACKING and NUKE DESTROYING FIESTA  to ALL...!!!! ;) :frantic: :nuke: :smug:

[yung flow]

 
2.) Citadel could have made this into less of a down-declare through including SUN, Misfits, RE, or NDO. However...
 

Have you not seen misfits ANS? That would have been a down declare not even touchable for a battle. Granted TPC should be involved in this war but cheers to citadel you could have made this completely 100% bogus declare given your situation being way stronger than everybody. However, you choose 2 decent opponents to go with. Cheers.

[the wompus]

We've hit citadel a lot of times and crushed them every time.

 

If I were Kong, I'd probably hate OP as well  (I would also get on some medication).

 

As much as it sucks for OP (and Warriors) being at a disadvantage in this war, it's apparent that Citadel needs to have these advantages or they'd get their teeth kicked in again.

 

Also, there is a very simple solution to the whole 'we got too big and couldn't find any targets' BS flying around.....go to war earlier.   Everyone else did and that is why we're a little behind the curve.

 

No worries though.

[kongland]

We've hit citadel a lot of times and crushed them every time.

 

If I were Kong, I'd probably hate OP as well  (I would also get on some medication).

 

As much as it sucks for OP (and Warriors) being at a disadvantage in this war, it's apparent that Citadel needs to have these advantages or they'd get their teeth kicked in again.

 

Also, there is a very simple solution to the whole 'we got too big and couldn't find any targets' BS flying around.....go to war earlier.   Everyone else did and that is why we're a little behind the curve.

 

No worries though.

It's easy to fix, Hal - just stop attacking us again and again. I repeat, we just respond in kind. I've tried to reason with you, but all I've received was you laughing in my face. So, don't tell me about medication, because it was I who was reasonable, not you. If you want to continue doing that, we'll do the same. This war is our response to the curb stomps you've started. You've had a nice raid on NDO this round, don't expect the same happening to Citadel.

[Dark Zone Elite]

 

Also, there is a very simple solution to the whole 'we got too big and couldn't find any targets' BS flying around.....go to war earlier.   Everyone else did and that is why we're a little behind the curve.

 

 

That is my fault and no one's else. Noob leader mistake  :P

 

Regarding TPC, why on earth would we want to create us a powerful enemy by downdeclaring and putting them in the same sack as The Warriors?

 

Same for Hellas, SO, The Misfits or SUN, we have no issue with them, and hitting them would have been stupid.

 

In my personal opinion, OP and The Warrios teamed last round to keep us busy, and I had to consider the possibility of OP hitting us early after our war with TW (as TW did when our war with OP ended). That's why I decided to bundle them, and as Paul already stated, I know we will meet again.

 

 

 

You know what you have done here?  you have made Swazz right.  if you really wanted this to be even you would have thrown TPC in with us as well.  May heaven help us all Swazz was right *goes off in a corner and cries*

 

 

But of course he was right, he was in Citadel most of the last round. Actually I was very  puzzled because many didn't realize that he was on the money.  :awesome:

 

 

*EDIT: silly typos*

Edited July 15, 2013 by Eltransitorio

[paul711]

I would like to remind all OP nations that arguing in this thread serves no constructive purpose except to give citadel leadership a soapbox to thump their chest. Everyone knows the score, this war is what is, lets fight, rebuild, and get ready for the next one.

[KingBilly1]

I would like to remind all OP nations that arguing in this thread serves no constructive purpose except to give citadel leadership a soapbox to thump their chest. Everyone knows the score, this war is what is, lets fight, rebuild, and get ready for the next one.

accepting what is happening is always the best solution :) no amount of complaining is going to bring an end to anything. Step back, take a look at the bigger picture and attempt to slash the losses.

[paul711]

#1 in casualties and will get more I am sure :)

[Lurunin]

still say a civil war would have been more fun :war:

[Clash]

TBRaiders, who in-game has turned out to be a decent fellow, politely asked me to tone it down on the OWF. So I did, but the constant stupid accusations by Citadel's other gov really ticks me off. So here we go again.

 

But of course he was right, he was in Citadel most of the last round. Actually I was very  puzzled because many didn't realize that he was on the money.  

 

post blitz stats: 

 

hades: 11 nations, 7k avg. strength, 0 nukes

 

citadel 37 nations, 7k avg. strength, 100 nukes 

 

warriors: 55 nations 6k avg. strength, 90 nukes

 

 

This is a respectable war by Warriors and a good challenge for both sides!!!

 

For the record this is the war that Citadel's gov is sniveling so hard about.That's even post blitz - after the Warriors built for war and before Citadel built for war. It also doesn't include the nukes we spied away from both alliances before these stats were taken. This war came after what even Kong admits was a huge down declare to start the round, one in which they lost almost no ns during it. You can see posts from neutral observers commenting on it in that thread.

 

Does that really look like a down declare to anyone neutral to this war?

It doesn't - because it wasn't.

 

The whining about the spy ops from the next war? Just as stupid. This post at the time linked in-game to a list of the caught spy reports and Citadel OF COURSE did 2x+ as many of the ops they continued to cry about. It also proved Kong to be a lying little bitch. BTW: In this war I had an agreement with TBRaiders not to do such ops at all - and even messaged out to my members about it. We both felt it might dilute some of the bad blood. However Citadel's other gov OF COURSE want to keep doing them, forcing TBRaiders to re-neg on his promise. Fucking bunch of hypocrites those clowns in every sense of the word and in every phase of TE.

 

----

 

From all the evidence on the wars Citadel declares, it seems that Citadel's gov can ONLY declare war when they have an overwhelming advantage, examples of last round's first war with their buddies in TPC (who did all the heavy lifting) and this war here. Citadel's government wanted this war and they got it, now fight it in-game with your nations rather than here on your lying, sniveling keyboards.

 

You got what you wanted.

So stfu and war, and we will too. You got that, kids?

[Clash]

Now, on to the actual in-game stuff, where most seem to be having fun despite the ridiculous stats.

 

Lord Hershey has been hilarious. We have discussed naming a general after Paula Deen.

Which of course means constant warring on the black team.

/rimshot

 

TBRaiders is a good fellow when you spend some time and talk to him. We've had ongoing discussion about CN in general that have been a lot of fun, hopefully for both of us.

 

Hapapapa is another good fellow, and we figure that if we keep killing off our navy at the rate we are going, we should be completely out of navy by Round 37. Maybe. Navy could still use a bit of improvement, Admin lol.

 

Devildog has ALWAYS been a great guy. I can remember warring against him wayyyy back when I was in TPF. That seems like 20 rounds ago, and maybe it was. Always a gentleman, always looking for the bright sides, always a worthy opponent. NOTHING but respect.

 

WarHammer is another darn good guy, although we haven't talked much this war.

I imagine some cat has got his tongue :P