Greatest War Ever

[Do Not Fear Jazz]

Wasn't here for UJW so I have no base for comparison.

 

Ah gotcha, well like I said originally it was a lot more "cowboy diplomacy" and a lot less gentle caressing.

[Daimos]

This war will see no such drastic change in power.  It will see a reduction in power all around with not much to show for it.

 

 

You will most likely see a drastic change of how DH will treat alliance not on their sphere.  The conduct and attitude DH exibited before this war is not really viable anymore.

[IYIyTh]

To be fair all of DH aside from Umbrella had been doing that up until now because of the realization they couldn't get away with it anymore.

 

Ardus' "We will not be the one's to make the first move going forward," loltastic iteration implying they could.

[IYIyTh]

We both know there were other things going on in the UjW that should not have happened that had direct impact on the war.  The UJW will forever be villified for me due to the result of the actions of a few people who abused the positions they held.

 

UjW is best forgotten since its a can of worms that we can't even discuss properly here if we wanted to bring up all the different factors there.

 

GW3 was much better, culmination of a rivalry.  UjW was tainted for me because of (redacted). 

 

GW3 though, AEGIS never had a chance, they were handled right from the start.

 

Same with Karma, and the Coalition of Cowards incident ... meh.  Karma had a dramatic change in the next few years here as it allowed a grouping of alliances that were either not "go getters", overshadowed by NPO and co, or who had been ostracized by NPO.  It allowed for many to have revenge on NPO for many slights, and eliminated NPO's stranglehold on CN.  If NPO wasn't rolled then it would have gotten more harder to defeat them later.

 

This war will be a good one, but it will leave many unsatistifed.  Many thought this war would be the one where DH/our upper tiers would be crushed and they woudl be victorious.  The realities of the war are showing differently, and regardless if we win or lose the other sides upper tiers are decimated.  This war has the very real possibility of ending with the "losing side" in firm control of the upper tier while everything below is smashed. 

 

I don't think this war will be the "greatest" war only beause the future will be more uncertain after this war than any other global war in the past.  In gW3 it ended with the Pax Pacifica era, with BLEU making power pushes and then the BLUE/Continuum split.  UjW ended with the utter destruction of the UjP and such a PR campaign that we have yet to see sense against the former UjP members which caused GOONS and others to be expelled from here by the player base for years.  Karma had the destruction of NPO's power base which created a vacuum which Superfriends and C&G were able to fill.

 

This war will see no such drastic change in power.  It will see a reduction in power all around with not much to show for it.

 

The UJW failed before it even began in the way TOP's crusade fell long before Polar's maneuver, and Pacifica long before the attack on OV.

[Daimos]

To be fair all of DH aside from Umbrella had been doing that up until now because of the realization they couldn't get away with it anymore.

 

Ardus' "We will not be the one's to make the first move going forward," loltastic iteration implying they could.

 

Fair enough.

[Branimir]

I really enjoyed "Great War I" as that interested me in the game, but majority of you wouldn't know of what I speak. Mechanics were different, actually made it more painful to be on the outnumbered side. Political intrigue, the general vitriol spewed,....very epic. xD

 

"Great War III" was fun too, at least for me.

 

But actually, as the most interesting war I must point out a conflict in which I didn't even participate-- "BiPolar"

That war was just one insane clusterfuck, very entertaining to fallow.

Edited March 1, 2013 by Branimir

[ChairmanHal]

Oh spare us Mr. \m/. That performance of yours was one of the more pathetic from an alliance I actually thought wasn't pathetic. so congrats on that.

 

Also all these what-ifs are wishful thinking of those that didn't get the end result they desired. What if NPO hadn't rolled during negotiations pre-Karma? What if TOP hadn't blitzed C&G? What if Legion hadn't folded like a stack of cards in GW3? What if Flying Tigers was given a chance to become the greatest alliance ever, as their destiny foretold? It's all pointless because it didn't happen, and the ripple effect would apply to whatever event *may* have occurred differently, so nothing proceeding it would be the same.  

 

Nothing about that war after the first couple of rounds was regular or normal in terms of CN game play.  You cannot judge \m/'s performance by any sort of fair IC metric.  

 

That said, it was pretty clear that \m/ was built as a shock army, not a self-contained military organization that could hold up in a long, grinding combat scenario.  Modern elite alliances insist that their members maintain large warchests, particularly in the mid to upper tiers and are by-in-large, self sustaining.  That was not the case back in 2007.  Instead, you had bank nations that would hold large sums of cash, distribute a portion of it out to fighting nations just before a war, retreat to PM, and then pop back out of PM periodically to throw more money at people.  \m/'s bank nations were mostly located within NPO and when the UJW came, those were unavailable for \m/ to use.  That quite honestly hurt us worse than NpO did and NpO was actually shooting at us--you can sustain effort even when outnumbered 3:1 as we were, so long as you have plenty of cash.

 

The ripple effect you are missing...

 

UJW -> WotC -> Karma

 

It's really a trilogy about the fall of The Orders.  It would make a nice miniseries on cable TV.  But even if the UJW had ended in a stalemate (unlikely, but let's go with it), I would argue that a second conflict against Polaris and its power base was inevitable, as was the Karma War.  Sure some of the principle alliances and leaders would have changed (perhaps instead of Ragnarok there would have been \m/, or maybe \m/ eventually disbands anyway in early 2008 and something else that includes former \m/ members as its founders rises up instead), but the essential story line is the same.  No great power lasts forever.

[Prodigal Moon]

I don't think this war will be the "greatest" war only beause the future will be more uncertain after this war than any other global war in the past. 

[...]

This war will see no such drastic change in power.  It will see a reduction in power all around with not much to show for it.

If that happens it will be pretty interesting to me by itself. Even if we end in a stalemate (not that I think that will happen), it will make the post-war period so much more intriguing than a normal peacetime period in CN, where 50 MDP's are still keeping everyone connected, everyone denies that they want war, and those of us not in the know are just left hoping that there's more going on behind the scenes than the forums show.

[Do Not Fear Jazz]

Nothing about that war after the first couple of rounds was regular or normal in terms of CN game play.  You cannot judge \m/'s performance by any sort of fair IC metric.

"Couple of rounds", you guys fought for a week, maybe two.

Though I did like \m/, and E_S gave Jason8 a raw deal, the fact of the matter is you guys tried to get out just as quick as everyone else did. Edited March 1, 2013 by Do Not Fear Jazz

[Saladjoe]

I understand how game mechanics worked back then, and I also understand the other factors about \m/'s gov. But that doesn't change the fact that you guys literally came apart at the seams once you got pushed, coupled with the months and months of big talk from those people. Say what you want about TOP and our past, but you can't deny we just talk a big game, we walk the walk too. So everything else that you're trying to say is just finding an excuse for a losing effort. At least in the war we lost we went down swinging.

[Caliph]

I understand how game mechanics worked back then, and I also understand the other factors about \m/'s gov. But that doesn't change the fact that you guys literally came apart at the seams once you got pushed, coupled with the months and months of big talk from those people. Say what you want about TOP and our past, but you can't deny we just talk a big game, we walk the walk too. So everything else that you're trying to say is just finding an excuse for a losing effort. At least in the war we lost we went down swinging.

 

The UJW cannot properly be discussed on these forums since many aspects of it have been outright banned from discussion here.  

[Innerspeaker]

I'm going to throw my lot in with Karma. There hasn't been a war since where out-of-game "Vox Populi" style warfare was viable or effective; there never was one prior to Karma either. Schatt's TWiP, Vox Populi's spy rings, Sponge's Q blog, lots of major players from the former GW/no-cb era stepping out of the woodwork to play their hands, [b]endless[/b] hypotheticals about the dying game and who was going to leave Q next, and how the inevitable fight would start or if there'd even be another war in CN, and whether or not NPO + friends could beat back the rising tide of opposition; fascinating stuff that put the back-channel game into high-gear for several months, while leaving the actual game to stagnate and "die". 

 

I mean, the WotC/No-CB happened several months before Karma, but that stretch of time was equally fascinating to play through. We saw the rise and redemption of CnG, the shifting power of Citadel, the scattering of BLEU-krew to Agora and Polarsphere, respectively, the evolution of several alliances into game-chaning form (I'm looking at MK's pre-karma nuke saturation, and NpO's to an extent) that defined the post-karma era's every-man alliance. The war propaganda has never been better than it was around Karma. Likewise, there has never been such an explosion of talent as there was in Karma, when literally everyone in the karma-kamp brought their best against the waxing Continuum. And the sanction race has never flipped so violently, either.

[Yankees Empire]

The ripple effect you are missing...

 

UJW -> WotC -> Karma

 

It's really a trilogy about the fall of The Orders.  It would make a nice miniseries on cable TV.  But even if the UJW had ended in a stalemate (unlikely, but let's go with it), I would argue that a second conflict against Polaris and its power base was inevitable, as was the Karma War.  Sure some of the principle alliances and leaders would have changed (perhaps instead of Ragnarok there would have been \m/, or maybe \m/ eventually disbands anyway in early 2008 and something else that includes former \m/ members as its founders rises up instead), but the essential story line is the same.  No great power lasts forever.

 

I actually really like the idea of grouping the major CN wars.

 

You have the Great Wars, with the NPO rising to global hegemony along with its allies in WUT/Q.

 

Then yo have UJW/WotC/Karma, about the Orders fall from grace.

 

Then with BiPolar/PB-NpO and DH-NPO/"Grudge" as CnG/DH rising and asserting its dominance.

 

Where the Dave War and this current conflict will fall will be seen later.

[jalopy]

Great War uno

[Opethian]

That would be the second great war. It had the perfect mix of great drama, great characters, and great propaganda. 

[lamuella]

Opethian, on 04 Mar 2013 - 13:13, said:
That would be the second great war. It had the perfect mix of great drama, great characters, and great propaganda.

The prisms were never safer.

[MagicalTrevor]

GW2 Bi-Polar & NoCB war were my favourites personally. GW2 was my first war as a nooby. Bi-Polar my first where i could actually make a difference being in gov & NoCB was just so much fun.

 

 

In terms of the game dynamics It's GW1 or Karma. Only 2 times power shifts have occured that would shape the next generation. Doubt we'll ever see a shift like that again.

[Joe Kremlin]

I personally think GW3, just because that still seems like the biggest war ever and the world was so different afterwards. There just aren't enough passionate players left in CN for this war to compete with the others on the list. I wouldn't vote Karma just because that war seemed over before it even started.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Joe Kremlin