Spartacus1082 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 C'mon, Ray. This is the fun part where those that disagree with our actions get to cherry pick what has been said to try to spin it so it reads the way they want it to. Facts just screw them up..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esial Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Guys, guys... you're ignoring the fact that DoorNail here is on a soapbox. He is clearly way important! Put your petty squabblings aside and let the man be heard so we can have much more hilarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Did you miss?By your admission that was notifying him you were going to attack TSL. Thus not opening diplomatic channels, otherwise you would have discussed a resolution instead of attacking their protectorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 By your admission that was notifying him you were going to attack TSL. Thus not opening diplomatic channels, otherwise you would have discussed a resolution instead of attacking their protectorate.We did not owe TSL any communications period. We didn't even owe PPO any. I gave them to Lurunin as a curteousy towards my upcoming actions.The words were on the wall plain and simple, DO NOT AID KASKUS. The expansion of NPO and SL were due to aid towards Kaskus.I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a pattern emerging around the idea of aiding Kaskus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I could maybe understand attacking the aid perpetrators but attacking the whole of TSL without even opening diplomatic channels with PPO first is poor form. By your admission that was notifying him you were going to attack TSL. Thus not opening diplomatic channels, otherwise you would have discussed a resolution instead of attacking their protectorate. Enough warnings have gone out now that the message should be extremely clear: aid Kaskus and the Sith will do something about it. Of course, by the same token, TSL could have opened diplomatic channels with PPO before sending aid. Now, as a result of the mistakes made by Kaskus and TSL, PPO is in a difficult no-win situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 We did not owe TSL any communications period. We didn't even owe PPO any. I gave them to Lurunin as a curteousy towards my upcoming actions.The words were on the wall plain and simple, DO NOT AID KASKUS. The expansion of NPO and SL were due to aid towards Kaskus.I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a pattern emerging around the idea of aiding Kaskus.Knowing that declaring war on TSL means an attack on PPO I believe you would owe communications with PPO, at the very least giving them a day or so to see if this could be worked out. Also I have not said you owe TSL anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esial Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) Knowing that declaring war on TSL means an attack on PPO I believe you would owe communications with PPO, at the very least giving them a day or so to see if this could be worked out. Also I have not said you owe TSL anything. This is obviously going beyond the point that was declared that aiding Kaskus is an offensive action, one we have to respond to in kind. Edited February 15, 2013 by Esial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Knowing that declaring war on TSL means an attack on PPO I believe you would owe communications with PPO, at the very least giving them a day or so to see if this could be worked out. Also I have not said you owe TSL anything.There's nothing to work out.Unless you've got some amazing, phenomenal, state-changing piece of information about TSL that allows him to defy direct warnings and even so much in the fact that did man-up and admit he did it in defiance [blah blah road to hell - good intentions yada yada]; then no - there's nothing to work out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 This is obviously going beyond the point that was declared that aiding Kaskus is an offensive action, one we have to respond to in kind.How is it going beyond? I am not disagreeing with your policy that aiding Kaskus is an offensive action, I disagree with the way you, NSO, handled the situation with PPO. Was it really that hard to have a discussion about the situation with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 (edited) How is it going beyond? I am not disagreeing with your policy that aiding Kaskus is an offensive action, I disagree with the way you, NSO, handled the situation with PPO. Was it really that hard to have a discussion about the situation with them? There was no need for us to contact them. I thought was prior, guess was during looking back but irregardless there was no need. [ooc: I woke up to that crap and got into the thick of it all at once .. Stupid random shift 3 ...] Edited February 15, 2013 by Rayvon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 PPO must be touched that some random GPF'er cares so much about their welfare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sardonic Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Interesting. Our war with VE is rather turning out like winning combat against a bag of potatoes, so perhaps our fearless Captain will decide to change course. I'm not sure what this has to do with the issue of this thread, but don't break your hand patting yourself on the back for performance against a vastly outnumbered enemy. NSO you amaze me, you have somehow managed to combine the two most annoying things that have happened to GOONS in the past 2 years into one amazing cluster of terrible. Now please somehow get LOLman and Methrage to declare on you. I will quit GOONS and apply to NSO. I love you guys more and more everyday. Yeah seriously, where does Doornail get off trying to escape the consequences of his actions? Always the rebel, attempting to circumvent legitimate alliances' policies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpliceVW Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'm not sure what this has to do with the issue of this thread, but don't break your hand patting yourself on the back for performance against a vastly outnumbered enemy. Yeah seriously, where does Doornail get off trying to escape the consequences of his actions? Always the rebel, attempting to circumvent legitimate alliances' policies. The issue of this thread being NSO declaring war on an alliance that happens to be under the protection of PPO, who is currently at war with VE. I didn't think it was that difficult to make that bridge, even for a GOON.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMorningstar Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 The issue of this thread being NSO declaring war on an alliance that happens to be under the protection of PPO, who is currently at war with VE. I didn't think it was that difficult to make that bridge, even for a GOON.. The issue of this thread is DoorNail AGAIN starting things and whining about it after he gets smacked in the face. NSOs response was correct. Destroy the alliance. If your protection extends to overt acts of war during an ongoing conflict then you shoudl rethink your protection treaties. Normally you would say "Hey if this idiot decided to aid an Alliance in an active war, have at him, the protection is acancelled based on their aggressive actions." But its your thing to do whatever you want. NSO is in the right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I never said there's "nothing to change" on our end There's no need of me trying to discuss anything about this to you Rayvon, you can't keep from telling lies. I don't know why GOONS has to shove their two cents into something that's none of their concern, but it would be wise of you to back away from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurunin Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 alright, now that i have some minutes to actually sit in front of a comp, let me address a few things. First off, rayvon, i can dump pm's too: Hello. We've got a bit of an issue with your protectorate aiding its co-protector Kaskus while we're at war. This is problematic as we've already posted warnings explicitly against such acts - NPO's DoW specifically stating for such events to cease. I've contacted Door Nail; says he doesn't want war - but doesn't believe in our stance (as his aid won't "give them the win" - which is beyond the point). He's also welcomed punishment. [b]Obviously, my feelings towards your co-protectorates of them is unfavourable and I have no desire to contact Kaskus regarding it as one would have to be a severely daft fool to not be able to guess to their response. However, before I take action, I felt it only fair to contact you prior.[/b] [b]We've reached diplomatic ends to each of the recent intrusions that have gone through in spite of Pacifica's warning - I am beyond willing to let this slip any further.[/b] Diplomacy failed to prevent the war, diplomacy has failed to bring an end yet, [b]diplomacy is averted with each slap in the face of our Orders.[/b] The only thing to be understood, apparently, is further action. It ends here and now, all outside interference of this war with Kaskus. [b]I am in other discussions regarding this situation, but talking is not going to last much longer.[/b] now first off, i agree that aiding Kaskus was a dumbass mistake, but seeing as how TSL are a protectorate, usually you deal with a protector to smack some sense into the protectorate. You admitted that you didn't want to deal with Kaskus any further so you decided to contact the other protector of TSL, the one who granted protection in the first place...me. Now, again, customarily, when a protectorate fucks up, the protector, again, smacks some sense into them. that's what i construed the message as, especially when further on in your pm you assert that time for talking is running out. (last line for those who cant read) As I had mentioned previously, TSL were still under the assumption that NSO was fine with "allies of Kaskus are free to aid Kaskus if they wish, just as NSO's allies are", paraphrasing of course. When I had brought this up in the response to you in the pm, you linked me to the NPO's DoW. I didn't think much of it until i reread the OP: Therefore, from this moment onwards, any further attempts to meddle in such a manner - namely, [b]any further aid sent to Kaskus - will be seen as an act of war against the New Pacific Order.[/b] bolded part is the important part. NSO did not make an state of fact similar to this, meaning that their previous position was still in place until this DoW on TSL. If you can please find me the statement otherwise I am all eyes and ears. ___ Next we'll move onto the point about NSO attempting diplomatic resolutions with all other intrusions on NPO's statement about aid. (yes i specifically stated Pacifica) If you truly had attempted true diplomatic resolutions, attempting to negotiate aid sent from a [i]protectorate[/i] should have been an easy task. a simple "hey this is a no no" from protector to protectorate is enough to stop most situations, and guess what, it did. When i messaged DoorNail he cancelled three aid packages immediately as a show of good faith, which i forwarded to you. I never received any pm back stating "this matter is still not resolved" nor "this still does not forgive him of his actions" hell i didnt get a pm back at all. So to say you were willing to work diplomatically with other alliances is a joke Rayvon, atleast admit to that We did not owe TSL any communications period. We didn't even owe PPO any. I gave them to Lurunin as a curteousy towards my upcoming actions. The words were on the wall plain and simple, DO NOT AID KASKUS. The expansion of NPO and SL were due to aid towards Kaskus. I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a pattern emerging around the idea of aiding Kaskus. again, unless you want to break customs, talking to a protector is the customary way to fix problems with a protectorate. sending a message to me stating "hey we're attacking TSL for this bullshit" would have been a better approach than you conducted. You're right though, the words of no aiding kaskus were on the wall when it came to NPO's entrance against K as a warning towards NEW. However, SL's DoW clearly states they came in to bring the clusterfuck to a close. I don't know about you, but I'm seeing a pattern in getting facts straight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 That was a direct response to: To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 10:26:26 PM Subject: RE: Aid Message: You do have a point, everyone knows that facebook is nearly instant comms, I don't do the social media thing. I do hope you understand my involvement, it's not easy to find a protector that allows us to do our own thing, we originally didn't want one at all. I left word for Tan to come speak to you, that's about all I can do at this time. if there is something I can assist you with, please feel free to ask. If it's urgent and I'm not available, Stoopid Ace is my buddy and co-leader, we're both fairly active. I'm not giving up yet and will continue, but I can see that I'm not having any luck changing you mind about how this war is going to end :) Again, there's nothing YOU can do to change this. That's nothing to do with the situation between myself and Kaskus. You grossly overestimate any importance or knowledge you may have of ... Anything. There's no need of me trying to discuss anything about this to you Rayvon, you can't keep from telling lies. No there is no need for you to discuss Kaskus's terms with me any further. There was no need in the beginning. You've still yet to show me a point where I've lied of anything here. I've been quite transparent on the entire issue since before the first attack on Smurf. I don't know why GOONS has to shove their two cents into something that's none of their concern, but it would be wise of you to back away from this. The same could have been said for yourself, then there'd be no situation for GOONS to shove their head into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 PPO must be touched that some random GPF'er cares so much about their welfare.Have I ever told you how cute you are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Can somebody please explain to Rayvon what a lie is and how he just got caught in one? I feel like I just got my big rig stuck in the mud and somebody is trying to pull me out with a spaghetti noodle :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenMorningstar Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 DoorNail you are terrible at this game and you are terrible about trying to get people on your side. If you had one whit of sense you would not be in the position you are in now. This is the second time you did something stupid and got pounded for it. The first time was with us, now with NSO. People defended your idiotic actions against us. They realize now you just cant help but do dumb things now that you are in this with NSO. Notice how no one is really jumping to your aid this time? Thats because you have brought this on yourself, again. I hope NSO beats you and your alliance into the dust and doesnt let up on your throat until you are completely destroyed. Good luck NSO. Just ignore DoorNail and burn the lot fo them into ashes. PPO you should really think about distancing yourselves from gems like DoorNail, he will do this over and over again until he is at Methrage status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Can somebody please explain to Rayvon what a lie is and how he just got caught in one? I feel like I just got my big rig stuck in the mud and somebody is trying to pull me out with a spaghetti noodle :facepalm: You deliberately drove that rig into the mud, knowing full well it'd get stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Holton Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I wasn't aware that we had to make a statement saying "Don't aid the people we're at war with." Lurunin are you seriously going to argue that aid sent to Kaskus doesn't count as a valid CB because we didn't post something specifically outlining the NORMAL RULES OF CN WAR? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longshadow Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Interesting. Our war with VE is rather turning out like winning combat against a bag of potatoes, so perhaps our fearless Captain will decide to change course. As my dear friends in GOONS have said. Do something about it if it really hurts you to see TSL getting hit for a dumbass move they just made. NSO you amaze me, you have somehow managed to combine the two most annoying things that have happened to GOONS in the past 2 years into one amazing cluster of terrible. Now please somehow get LOLman and Methrage to declare on you. I will quit GOONS and apply to NSO. I love you guys more and more everyday. And I am loving GOONS more everyday, WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO?!?!?! By your admission that was notifying him you were going to attack TSL. Thus not opening diplomatic channels, otherwise you would have discussed a resolution instead of attacking their protectorate. TSL made an error in pushing this war further. Aid to Kaskus was a strict NO NO anyone trying to say otherwise is either delusional or a complete incompetent. When NPO made that announcement it was with the full support of NSO backing it that meant that we would take action against ANY aid sent to Kaskus as well. Savvy? There's no need of me trying to discuss anything about this to you Rayvon, you can't keep from telling lies. I don't know why GOONS has to shove their two cents into something that's none of their concern, but it would be wise of you to back away from this. Someone's a little mad at GOONS, what? Can't handle when competent people come knocking on your door? Also he hasn't told any lies you are yet again attempting to twist words when all it does is show your plan. Good job, continue with your soapbox just like a little child who is standing on an empty box screaming at the world. Its quite adorable really, but sadly you are feeling the pain of what happens when you go to war with the Sith. -Unimportant gibberish- Cute. So you want to defend the idea that TSL "thought" it only meant aid from anyone other than Kaskus allies? That's cute when the actual wording said any aid sent to Kaskus would be considered an act of war. But hey more power to you if you want to come and "bring it" as GOONS so aptly put, I'm sure it'd work out well for you since you are "kicking VE's ass" as someone else said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generals3 Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 The issue of this thread being NSO declaring war on an alliance that happens to be under the protection of PPO, who is currently at war with VE. I didn't think it was that difficult to make that bridge, even for a GOON.. Why is that an issue? You're barely engaged in that war and those hitting VE will probably not even notice you pulling out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoorNail Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 DoorNail you are terrible LOL, I realize you guys might still be a little butthurt over our little situation of the past, but I'm sorry, you're going to have to wait your turn. Oh and because you aren't smart enough to heed a warning, I'd like to drop this little gem here for you..Seems Rayvon thinks GOONS is "easy" and sub-par to the NSO war machine. This might make all the "slap hands!, slap hands!" between GOONS and NSO in here a bit awkward, but I'm sure everyone else will get a pretty good laugh out of it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.