An Imperial Decree

[Longshadow]

I see reading comprehension is not a qualification to some, the part you missed is where I said I would not have hesitated to send reps for the aid, the subject of reps never came up, you'd think that if you all were so "violated", that Rayvon would have mentioned it. He didn't and I can prove it.

 

We did not want to get involved with military, the reason for this DoW is entirely on Rayvon and his reasons for expanding war. Which do happen to be false as they've been displayed here for all to see.

 

I bolded the important part. WE DON'T DO REPS!!!! Its an NSO tradition since our founding to not do or accept reparations in any form. All we want is you to admit you made a mistake and to back off, however you don't seem to get that as you think we are liars and losers and believe Smurf and Lord Bit to be the most righteous individuals in this game. The same applies to Kaskus, they admit they lost the war and its game over! No surrender terms, no nothing!

 

A simple admission of defeat and an apology for jerking us around like this for almost 2 months now and everything would be over and we'd get to move on to more fun things. Too bad y'all think you are some kind of military geniuses for hammering our lower tiers into the dirt while you yourselves get blown into the dirt. Kaskus' battle strategy:

 

1) Get NSO to declare war

2) Suck so much at war that NSO top tier nations blow us up to ZI regions

3) Fight the small nations till they delete and NSO is forced to give us white peace

4) ????

5) Profit

 

The problem is we know what you are doing and we aren't about to let you continue doing it. Enjoy having an ANS under 10k and enjoy having 1/5th of your original NS. Oh is that propaganda? No that's facts, hard numbers and percentages that show you have now reached levels of true rogue-ness. Welcome to the club TSL you are about to get you collective rear-ends kicked hard.

 

@PPO: We didn't want to give a free pass, he already aided 3 nations that accepted aid, Tan, Smurf and Bit all 3 accepted. It was 4.5mil, 50 tech and 2000 soldiers. At their current levels this allows them to fight for another 2 rounds easily, thank you for trying to say we are bad people. Y'all should learn not to sign with complete and utter idiots like this.

 

e: spelling

Edited February 13, 2013 by Longshadow

[Griff]

I'm loving how DoorNail is absolutely struggling with the idea that aiding other alliances is an act of war. You sent out the aid hoping you'd be able to get away with it. You don't get to complain when it backfires on you. The very idea that you did this to "not expand the war" is laughable, how does getting your so-called alliance burned to the ground help Kaskus in any way?

[Sardonic]

*yawns*

You could try, you know, not being completely insufferable.  It might allow more people to take you seriously, not that you have a factual leg to stand on in this case.

[DoorNail]

I bolded the important part. WE DON'T DO REPS!!!! Its an NSO tradition since our founding to not do or accept reparations in any form. All we want is you to admit you made a mistake and to back off, however you don't seem to get that as you think we are liars and losers and believe Smurf and Lord Bit to be the most righteous individuals in this game. The same applies to Kaskus, they admit they lost the war and its game over! No surrender terms, no nothing!

 

A simple admission of defeat and an apology for jerking us around like this for almost 2 months now and everything would be over and we'd get to move on to more fun things. Too bad y'all think you are some kind of military geniuses for hammering our lower tiers into the dirt while you yourselves get blown into the dirt. Kaskus' battle strategy:

 

1) Get NSO to declare war

2) Suck so much at war that NSO top tier nations blow us up to ZI regions

3) Fight the small nations till they delete and NSO is forced to give us white peace

4) ????

5) Profit

 

The problem is we know what you are doing and we aren't about to let you continue doing it. Enjoy having an ANS under 10k and enjoy having 1/5th of your original NS. Oh is that propaganda? No that's facts, hard numbers and percentages that show you have now reached levels of true rogue-ness. Welcome to the club TSL you are about to get you collective rear-ends kicked hard.

 

@PPO: We didn't want to give a free pass, he already aided 3 nations that accepted aid, Tan, Smurf and Bit all 3 accepted. It was 4.5mil, 50 tech and 2000 soldiers. At their current levels this allows them to fight for another 2 rounds easily, thank you for trying to say we are bad people. Y'all should learn not to sign with complete and utter idiots like this.

 

e: spelling

 

Did you even read your own leaders OP? Because it clearly speaks about reps. EDIT...See? "DoorNail and Smurf - no reparations still"

 

 

you need to get your facts in order before you come out with more garbage, only one accepted aid.

 

 

you're at war with TSL now because your leader lost his cool, instead of a ligit reason to declare, he had to lie to make this DoW. If he's lying out here in public, could he be lying to everyone else in private too?

 

 

I'm just waiting on Rayvon to come out here and say "prove I lied".

 

 

 stop it you're scaring me, that blitz on all 2 of us was soooo impressive /sarc  LOL

Edited February 13, 2013 by DoorNail

[Longshadow]

Did you even read your own leaders OP? Because it clearly speaks about reps.

 

 

you need to get your facts in order before you come out with more garbage, only one accepted aid.

 

 

you're at war with TSL now because your leader lost his cool, instead of a ligit reason to declare, he had to lie to make this DoW. If he's lying out here in public, he's lying to everyone else in private too.

 

 

I'm just waiting on Rayvon to come out here and say "prove I lied".

 

 

 stop it you're scaring me, that blitz on all 2 of us was soooo impressive /sarc  LOL

 

1) I did and nowhere does it speak about reparations. We don't want any, so why do you keep talking about it? I guess this is the lie Smurf is feeding everyone to keep y'all at war, no offense to GOONS or anything but we don't want anything from you other than an admission of error.

 

2) Actually no I saw 3 I have a screenshot if you want it, but it seems you really are dense enough to believe that there is a difference between 1 and 3, it changes nothing what the number is the result is the same. You are a fool who thought to "de-escalate" a situation by escalating it. Why did you need our attentions? Were you sad that your protectors were getting all the fun of beating up on smaller nations?

 

3) No we are at war with TSL because you decided to send aid packages to Kaskus for the stupidest reason out there, TSL is taking the beat-down now because you were an idiot. End of story right there. Rayvon hasn't lied about anything, I was the one that saw the TSL aid packages, I brought them to him and he went to you. Only to have you spit in his face and laugh at him and try to "resolve" this whole war when you have no power in Kaskus to do that. We are tired of dealing with people who say they "speak" for Kaskus when the only person who truly does won't speak to us because he believes, wrongly, that they are winning this war.

 

4) Hold your breath all you want, you'll die of lack of oxygen first mate.

 

Awww poor baby, sorry we are busy cleaning up the floor of all the Kaskus piss on the ground.

[Rayvon]

So nvm the fact that you contacted me to step in in the TSL matter. Nvm that doornail cancelled all aid sent that was not already accepted as a sign of goodwill. Nvm that there was a willingness to work with you guys even though the impression was that allies could aid allies (that got cleared up easily enough, though the confusion came during the debate over NEW sending aid rather than an official treaty partner.)

Now add that to the fact I resolved this same day/next day of your pm and that brings us to the issue that talking to resolve the issues were fast about to end.

So instead of realizing that the issue got resolved quite simply due to the one misunderstanding that was cleared up almost instantly, you decide to attack TSL to place pressure on Kaskus?

Thanks for providing me a few head achy nights by attacking my protectorate after seeking my help in stopping the problem Rayvon

 

I didn't contact you to 'seek help'; I believe that message went something like:

Hello.

We've got a bit of an issue with your protectorate aiding its co-protector Kaskus while we're at war.

This is problematic as we've already posted warnings explicitly against such acts - NPO's DoW specifically stating for such events to cease.

I've contacted Door Nail; says he doesn't want war - but doesn't believe in our stance (as his aid won't "give them the win" - which is beyond the point). He's also welcomed punishment. Obviously, my feelings towards your co-protectorates of them is unfavourable and I have no desire to contact Kaskus regarding it as one would have to be a severely daft fool to not be able to guess to their response. However, before I take action, I felt it only fair to contact you prior.

We've reached diplomatic ends to each of the recent intrusions that have gone through in spite of Pacifica's warning - I am beyond willing to let this slip any further. Diplomacy failed to prevent the war, diplomacy has failed to bring an end yet, diplomacy is averted with each slap in the face of our Orders. The only thing to be understood, apparently, is further action. It ends here and now, all outside interference of this war with Kaskus.

I am in other discussions regarding this situation, but talking is not going to last much longer.

 

My second response to you, confirmed the 'act of war' line from the Pacific expansion.
 
As my OP says, 'aiding first and seeking forgiveness after' is over.



DoorNail:
Lied? About what? About not avoiding discussion or terms? No, I haven't. Because I refused to have a serious discussion with YOU does not mean I am avoiding anything. We've had numerous discussions with others "on behalf of Kaskus gov without their approval" and it's ended as poorly as each other attempt once Kaskus gov gets involved. Our PM's end with me once again messaging them. No DN, refusing to talk to you further on it, refusing to entertain you - that is not avoiding discussions with Kaskus. Sorry to burst your little bubble.

I have the whole convo too, good for you boy.
[spoiler]

To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/9/2013 8:48:01 PM

Subject: Aid
Message: You are aiding nations at war with New Sith Order, New Pacific Order and Shangri-La; a warning has already been put on the forums regarding such activities.

Please cancel the orders before they are received.

- Rayvon -
- Emperor -
- New Sith Order -
==========
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/9/2013 10:06:49 PM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: Kaskus is our protector alliance, we feel like we owe them some aid and now is a good a time as any to repay it.

I'm not looking to jump into war because I'm still recovering from that goons thing, and a few aid packages isn't going to make a "win" for Kaskus.

But the aid is being offered to friends that we took aid from, if we're to be punished for that, then we'll not run from that punishment.
==========
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/10/2013 5:53:13 AM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: When you aid nations of an alliance whom are at war; there's a very strong chance you're jumping head-first without looking into said war.

A couple packages "giving them the win" isn't the point here, the point is to end this war - which means keeping outside interference putting money in their coffers OUT.

I'll thank you to cancel those remaining offers.

- Rayvon -
- Emperor -
- New Sith Order -
==========
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/10/2013 10:44:40 AM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: You are at war with our protectors, we are vulnerable and an easy target without Kaskus at their protecting capabilities.

They came to our aid when we needed them the most, the favor is being returned.

I'd like to see and end to your war asap, they've had enough.
Your choices are clear, either you let me aid them and maybe I can talk them into backing down from the war or you attack TSL for aiding Kaskus.

It may be a cheaper option for you to let me aid them and possibly help stop the war, than it would be to go to war with TSL.

If Kaskus will listen to anyone, it would be me and Ace of TSL. Technically you've already provided TSL with a CB for being at war with our protector, But we are attempting to avoid war to an extent(could've sent it secret). So again, the choice is yours, to act or let us do our thing.
==========
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/10/2013 2:28:35 PM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: Easy choice.
==========
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/10/2013 10:31:00 PM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: Ok, I've spoken to a couple Kaskus members, not top gov but close enough to relay what is happening.

what I'm hearing from both sides here, is that both sides are claiming the other is stalling or holding onto the war, when in reality I think you both are ready to stop the war.

What I would like to hear from you is what you can and cannot live without, meaning reps or some stipulation before you'd agree to peace.


I'll start and throw down a goal of white peace all around with no reps, then we'll go from there.


You both have taken quite a bit of damage, adding reps onto either side is such a hassle and actually has potential to spark the war back up again..


you have beat each other up to the point where it's going to take some time to rebuild, I know, I've been ZI'd a couple times myself. :)


If we can't agree to the white peace and no reps, at least give a ceasefire a few thoughts and allow yourselves to recover some. It's not that fun fighting with smaller nations.
==========
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 12:15:57 AM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: Talking to anyone except Kaskus gov about this war has proven a pure waste of my time.

They've known for over a month now, Tan just has to finally talk to me. The terms have been very easy, they just have to finally step off their 'white peace' bull&%$@.

I've offered them multiple escapes from the war, "both sides" are not holding the war up.

I will not speak or make agreements with anyone except Tan. As per Tan, Bitburg and Caparo (Razor).

You're missing a large amount from that deceptive, manipulative group.
==========
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 12:49:20 AM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: I obviously don't know as much as you do about it and had just heard tidbits of what the terms were.
The white peace offer from Kaskus, I didn't know about, that was just something that I threw in as a starting point.
I know it may be difficult to understand my reasons for sending aid publicly, but it got your attention and it is in our alliances best interest to see this resolved, I could've joined Kaskus or just attacked if I wanted to fight.
I'm tying to avoid making things worse and to prove it, I'll cancel those two aid packages immediately after I send this PM.
things get said that can't be taken back as with every war, but sticks and stones right?

I do appreciate you taking the time to reply, when you didn't have to, I also appreciate you showing patience and not attacking me for aiding them. mistakes get made and some people will do anything to avoid admitting it, most will learn from those mistakes.
I want to help resolve this, one way or the other.
==========
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 1:32:18 AM

Subject: update
Message: Canceled the aid, haven't talked to anyone from Kaskus since our last PM.

I want you to know that I'm not here to poke fun or make you or your alliance look bad, I'll never share our messages we exchange or say things that I wouldn't say directly to you.

I've put myself and TSL in a bad spot because we're not neutral about the situation, my interest is to get our protector out of war asap or join in.

As you've shown respect and restraint, you'll get it in return and even though I've been around the game awhile, this is my first attempt to mediate between two alliances.

Last thing I want to do is upset either of you, I still haven't heard your exact terms to Kaskus, have heard bits but things change pretty quick when war is involved.

most people usually have a lot of fun blowing up their nations, although eventually that will get stale.
I'll keep trying to help with this, I just need everyone to be willing to agree to something so that we can continue working this out.
==========
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 5:55:05 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: Quite frankly, and if this offends you I apologize, you're much better off just simply talking to Kaskus and Kaskus alone if you wish to help.

There's absolutely nothing you can accomplish annoying me with further attempts that are bound to fall flat on their face the moment you include Kaskus gov -- the one's who actually are holding this &%$@ up.

Series of talks
http://www.newsithorder.info/nsoimgs/Kaskus/kaskustalks001.png

through to kaskustalks007.png

That doesn't include the series of OWF discussions in open threads.

I have nothing further to say until they're ready to talk. Nothing is going to change, nothing has changed. It's all in their hands. All has been in their hands.
=============
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 5:57:16 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: Tan is out of town for a couple days, evidently he can be reached through other means, as the message relayed was that I was not Kaskus' delegate of peace.

He's right, I'm not officially and that's why I mentioned it, I am 50% leadership of TSL and the other 50% is in agreement with what I'm doing.

Kaskus didn't ask me for aid, nor did they ask if I'd speak for them. thought I explained that I was here on my own accord, for my alliance.

You've given me no doubt to believe what you say is true and I know this war hasn't been the best model of a "clean" war, but they are beat down already, isn't that good enough?

how is a beat down alliance going to pay any reps? that's like PZI, don't see how having to monitor another alliances' aid slots for at least a year, could do anything other than take up somebodies time.

how about no badmouthing for 1 month? the punishment could be reps or tech, maybe even a free CB for the other alliance to cash in at their discretion :)

continued
============
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 5:59:42 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ASKED FOR REPS AT NO POINT.

SMURF HAS RAISED THIS OVER AND OVER ACCUSING US OF IT.

JUST A COUPLE DAYS AGO IT WAS STRAIGHTENED OUT AGAIN.

Your negotiations are not going anywhere with me.

Kaskus are the one's who need to step forward.

This war will continue until Kaskus leaders act like leaders and talk to me.
=============
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 6:16:04 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/114431-an-imperial-decree/page-35#entry3069543


One of the posts back at the end of December where Smurf tried accusing me of being a complete dick to Bitburg; in this discussion with Bitburg I informed them for probably the 3rd time of "no reps" - and have probably done so at least 3 or 4 times since this - all mostly to Smurf who keeps turning around and saying we're asking for them and gets other people (like most recently D34th in the Shangri-La announcement thread) going on about.
=============
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 6:29:05 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: Yet after all these messages, I still don't know your terms, if white peace is not to be discussed.

From an outside view, you're both holding up the end of the war, neither will give from a firm stance.

I was hoping to do something helpful, as this has turned into a rather large cluster$%&* of a war and has potential to mess into the global war.

without you and Tan getting together to agree, this war looks to continue IMO, which is not good for me and my alliance.

I can talk to Kaskus, Tan or whoever, what would you have me say?

personally and I don't mean to offend(wasn't offended BTW), but I'm having trouble reading you as far as wanting to end the war or not.
besides, what if they don't comply?
you're basically playing with TE sized nations in SE. that doesn't seem like much fun.

your missing a chance to end this war, by not using me to convince Kaskus that your reasons are valid for them to agree to what you must have.
=============
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 6:37:45 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: All they've had to do was let go of the White Peace and even just simply acknowledge a defeat or surrender or any word you want to put to it.

I even offered them, if you look through those links, a term similar to that between PC-RoK some time ago, referencing a specific line about 'even though they have the will and capability to fight they've agreed to end the hostilities' - and even that was not good enough.

I have made many concessions.

I am very fine with this war continuing as long as is required.

"your missing a chance to end this war, by not using me"

I'm not missing any chance for anything; I am not stopping you from continuing to attempt to talk him down. I am merely telling you that any body other than Tan speaking to me, is going to be fruitless.

I have absolutely zero faith in talking to anybody except him because of how it has gone down each and every time.

Talk to Tan to your hearts content; he still has to talk to me himself before anything can be accomplished.
=============
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 8:54:23 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: The same could be said of you, to let go of the white peace is so terrible thing.

like enough blood hasn't been spilled or you'd like for Tan to kneel before you and kiss your ring.

I don't know Tan that well, but that's kinda what Sardonic wanted me to do and I refused. If Tan is anything like me, then I can't see him doing that either, even in light of what's been said or done.

what is hard to understand is why you want the victory claim, when you haven't won. You overwhelmed them with 3 alliances and still can't claim that, it doesn't work that way.

when an alliance admits to defeat and hasn't been defeated, the alliance folds because it has lost its sovereignty. It's not true to itself anymore.

there's no way I could get them to do that and still consider myself honest with them, that's not like me at all.
=============
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 9:00:29 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: Me let go? I am not stuck on it.

I have made many offers.

They are manipulating and trying to prolong.

I am trying to find resolution.

They are manipulating and trying to prolong.

I am not giving them what they want because they do not deserve it.

My various offers were a means to get around that surrender/white peace/defeat/wah wah kaskus ego.

They refused every offer.

If he doesn't feel he's defeated enough to surrender or admit defeat yet, fine, the war continues. We can afford it.

It is very very very simple.

Fact is, they $%&*ed up. They instigated, and they will bend first.

I don't care about 'spilled blood' as every drop is at their behest.

This war is nothing for us, We're still growing.
=============
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 9:46:31 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: I suppose any growth in war is impressive, even if it's just in the last day or two.

You've given me nothing to work with, there's not one shred of material I can use to help end this war.

Do you realize that with Tan being out of town, he's put another in charge of the alliance? with full control to be able to declare peace or war, it may be worth your time to speak to that person. I don't know who is in charge over there right now, but I'm sure Tan left specific orders.
=============
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 9:56:45 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: Then you've taken from our conversation about what Kaskus is going to take from this war.

If someone else has that ability, they know where to find me as well.

Kaskus claims to have this absolutely amazing, infallible and phenomenal communications set up in their little facebook group. They can certainly figure out their position well enough.

They've heard and ignored everything I've had to say for over a month. It's been nearly a month since they've even spoken directly to us - my message being the last message sent out.
=============
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 10:26:26 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: You do have a point, everyone knows that facebook is nearly instant comms, I don't do the social media thing.

I do hope you understand my involvement, it's not easy to find a protector that allows us to do our own thing, we originally didn't want one at all.

I left word for Tan to come speak to you, that's about all I can do at this time. if there is something I can assist you with, please feel free to ask. If it's urgent and I'm not available, Stoopid Ace is my buddy and co-leader, we're both fairly active.

I'm not giving up yet and will continue, but I can see that I'm not having any luck changing you mind about how this war is going to end :)
=============
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 10:31:47 PM

Subject: RE: Aid

Message: There's nothing on my end to change.

They made the error, they will work to correct it.

Error's have a way of coming back to haunt you when you refuse to take accountability for your actions that create them.
=============
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/11/2013 11:39:19 PM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: From my point of view, this isn't about having them correct their errors, it's boasting that you have more allies.

that karma stuff works best on ourselves, not forced on others.
=============
To: DoorNail From: Rayvon Date: 2/11/2013 11:55:48 PM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: No there is no "correcting" their error. It's made, and it is not undo-able.

Accountability is not about 'correcting' it is about 'accepting'.

They made an error, and yes they have taken a heavy beating - but they took that beating while trying to hide from the error. While trying to pass the buck. While trying to put the entire ordeal on my shoulders. While trying to manipulate further war against my nations.

They have not accepted their error, they have not accepted that they could have handled this differently, they have not accepted that their series of choices are what is creating each snowballed situation. They have not accepted that I am not as easy as GOONS, we don't have a reason to exit war like they did. We have the support of our allies to seek the end we feel due, that they also feel due.

As soon as they accept their faux pas, man up and talk to me, resolution can begin. War can end.

Kaskus allies are quickly becoming our own through Kaskus's own actions.
=============
To: Rayvon From: DoorNail Date: 2/12/2013 6:01:10 AM

Subject: RE: Aid
Message: saying you're being more difficult that goons isn't that great of an example, as I know how goons operate. Like goons do, you rely on others to do your heavy lifting. You knew you couldn't beat them when you called in help. Now that you've got Kaskus on the ropes, they still can't be beat unless they surrender.

So I can kinda get a picture going of why the war is still on, they hold a partial form of victory because they haven't cried out for assistance and haven't surrendered.

Thank you Rayvon, you've been very helpful in providing me with enough info to help me, help move this war forward. it's obviously sitting still at the moment, stagnating and stinking up the place :)

you have to admit, that it hasn't been one of the more glorious wars. I just don't think that what you hope for them to do is going to happen. Eventually people grow tired of being in war though and without a fire to keep them pumped up, membership numbers will start to suffer, as this war has gone cold.
=============

[/spoiler]

The aid was intended to get your attention and it worked perfectly, you responded almost immediately.

My OP says directly to that regard:

However, your manner to get our attention was misguided and not well thought. Perhaps if multiple prior attempts of aid-first-seek-forgiveness-after hadn't taken place in spite of the Pacific intervention, you may have received more due thought - but enough is enough.

Notice the date of aid sent and the date of this DoW, do you expect anyone to believe that you waited so many days to confront us over it? A "violation" that has obviously dishonored you and others enough to start military actions.

We didn't wait any days to 'confront you' you over it, nor are we required to. I contacted you right away, and I contacted your other protector right away. And in both cases, I made it clear talking was done. Our council was preparing orders, there's no statute of limitation that says we must attack you within 20 minutes of your aids or our DoW is invalid.

This part in the OP "DoorNail and Smurf - no reparations still", is also not true. I am very talented in many areas, but my mind reading is very under-developed.

I think your reading period is very under-developed. I have not asked, anywhere at any time, for any amount of reparations. There are still no reparations being added. Please, do show me where I lied about this too.

Once I understood that there was no convincing you of anything pertaining to helping end the war, the one holding up the end of the war was clear. Not Kaskus like you claimed.

Awaiting their acceptance of peace is not holding up the war. Right from the very moment they crossed us, they cried 'white peace'. They are not getting it. If they expected that we'd just let them walk in do their thing and walk out - they were god damn fucking WRONG. YOU are god damn fucking WRONG. If they donn't feel they are defeated enough, then the war continues.

If somebody attacks us, our protectors would be chomping at the bit to get involved, that works both ways.

A protectorate is one-way, what you're describing is an MD treaty.

[Rayvon]

[quote] but while we're here, why is a GOON nation attacking one of our guys? Are we to assume NSO is ok with you taking up war slots? [/quote] That's between you and GOONS. It went up before my DoW did. Looks like he's raiding you guys. If anything, should be concern from GOONS towards us that we're shitting in their picnic area.

Yeah dude, NSO planned this whole war to keep them out of the larger conflict, that's why they hired Smurf to get on their ZI list and then go hide in Kaskus alliance and paid off Kaskus government to piss off themselves and all of their allies by refusing to conduct basic diplomacy.

Fuck man, just put it out there for everyone. The discussions of upcoming year were meant for our pillow, and our pillow alone. :(

[Lord Bit]

As my first act as Kaskus viceroy, I terminate the protection of your alliance.

as viceroy  :gun:  of Kaskus, why don't you appologize and order peace?

 

And I am not, who you think I am

 

I like Pina Coladas
And getting caught in the rain, nuclear rain.
I am into yoga, especially the Savasana
I have half a brain, but only the war half.
I am into making love at midnight, OK or attacking.

 

So if I am the war that you have looked for, come to me and declare. :wub:

 

 

I know I am in puss mode. ok will be accepting dates in a few days, said it before YOU HA HA

Edited February 13, 2013 by Lord Bit

[KainIIIC]

there goes that "lies about your alliance" shtick. Don't drop the soapbox, DoorNail... you know what happens when you do that.

[USMC123]

Doornail said earlier he isn't good at mind reading.  I think it's reading he isn't good at.

[Pollard]

as viceroy  :gun:  of Kaskus, why don't you appologize and order peace?

 

We are the great and glorious nations of Kaskus, we don't apologize for anything.

[Longshadow]

God I love reading logs, they make me all tingly on the inside. How is it that these crap alliances have been allowed to exist for so long? I don't get what is going on here, maybe Pollard is right for once.

[Tiberius]

 

My second response to you, confirmed the 'act of war' line from the Pacific expansion.
 
As my OP says, 'aiding first and seeking forgiveness after' is over.
 

Pacifica's DoW on Kaskus actually states: "Therefore, from this moment onwards, any further attempts to meddle in
such a manner - namely, any further aid sent to Kaskus - will be seen as
an act of war against the New Pacific Order."

 

While I may be wrong, I vaguely recall that NSO was okay with Kaskus's allies aiding them while at the same time receiving aid from your own allies. The issue before was due to NEW aiding Kaskus without a treaty.

[Hereno]

Pacifica's DoW on Kaskus actually states: "Therefore, from this moment onwards, any further attempts to meddle in
such a manner - namely, any further aid sent to Kaskus - will be seen as
an act of war against the New Pacific Order."

 

While I may be wrong, I vaguely recall that NSO was okay with Kaskus's allies aiding them while at the same time receiving aid from your own allies. The issue before was due to NEW aiding Kaskus without a treaty.

 

An attack on one is an attack on all!

 

Wakakakakakaka

[Longshadow]

Pacifica's DoW on Kaskus actually states: "Therefore, from this moment onwards, any further attempts to meddle in
such a manner - namely, any further aid sent to Kaskus - will be seen as
an act of war against the New Pacific Order."

 

While I may be wrong, I vaguely recall that NSO was okay with Kaskus's allies aiding them while at the same time receiving aid from your own allies. The issue before was due to NEW aiding Kaskus without a treaty.

 

 

Absolutely not would we be "okay" with aid coming in from anyone. In the NEW situation we had a huge issue with it because NEW does not hold a treaty with Kaskus. In this case our problem is that aid was sent AT ALL. I love elawyering myself but that's just trying to stretch it way too far.

[Pollard]

God I love reading logs, they make me all tingly on the inside. How is it that these crap alliances have been allowed to exist for so long? I don't get what is going on here, maybe Pollard is right for once.

 

Get used to it.

 

For my next act as Viceroy of Kaskus, the following changes are hereby implemented.

 

1. All "Secret" treaties are considered null and void. This is not 2006.

 

2. Proper means of communication will be established. This includes, but is not limited to, an active IRC channel inhabited by a gov member at all times, a forum system which can be implemented at Kaskus government discretion, and an end to the use of social media sites as communication tools.

 

3. A much more coherent government structure will be implemented. This includes having clearly identifiable government officials whose roles remain the same, not dependent on the war status of the alliance, or at the whim of whoever decides to be in charge that day.

 

4. Pollard shall be given administrator access to Kaskus' new forums, will be given ops in their IRC channel and will be consulted regarding any actions Kaskus decides to take in the foreseeable future, until they can learn to be a responsible alliance.

[Tiberius]

Absolutely not would we be "okay" with aid coming in from anyone. In the NEW situation we had a huge issue with it because NEW does not hold a treaty with Kaskus. In this case our problem is that aid was sent AT ALL. I love elawyering myself but that's just trying to stretch it way too far.

 

But your okay with aid coming in to yourselves, correct?

[Longshadow]

But your okay with aid coming in to yourselves, correct?

 

Well that's a biased matter, as said Kaskus has to be the one to deal with such aid themselves. The fact that they haven't shows they don't care so we don't mind. However we do care if aid goes to them, see the difference? We act upon those foolish enough to send aid to Kaskus, whereas Kaskus chooses to not act or rather not act in a timely fashion.

 

The point is hard to get I know but it becomes easier once you realize how much of rogues these guys are.

[Lord Bit]

We are the great and glorious nations of Kaskus, we don't apologize for anything.

Damn YOU!  how can I hate you? with talk like that?  God love ya!

[Lord Bit]

Get used to it.

 

For my next act as Viceroy of Kaskus, the following changes are hereby implemented.

 

1. All "Secret" treaties are considered null and void. This is not 2006.

 

2. Proper means of communication will be established. This includes, but is not limited to, an active IRC channel inhabited by a gov member at all times, a forum system which can be implemented at Kaskus government discretion, and an end to the use of social media sites as communication tools.

 

3. A much more coherent government structure will be implemented. This includes having clearly identifiable government officials whose roles remain the same, not dependent on the war status of the alliance, or at the whim of whoever decides to be in charge that day.

 

4. Pollard shall be given administrator access to Kaskus' new forums, will be given ops in their IRC channel and will be consulted regarding any actions Kaskus decides to take in the foreseeable future, until they can learn to be a responsible alliance.

There you go!  now I hate you again Thanks!  back to norml.  

[Tiberius]

Well that's a biased matter, as said Kaskus has to be the one to deal with such aid themselves. The fact that they haven't shows they don't care so we don't mind. However we do care if aid goes to them, see the difference? We act upon those foolish enough to send aid to Kaskus, whereas Kaskus chooses to not act or rather not act in a timely fashion.

 

The point is hard to get I know but it becomes easier once you realize how much of rogues these guys are.

That hasn't answered my question.

 

 

 

[Rayvon]

That hasn't answered my question.

Sure it did.

As I just finished explaining to Keno via query on IRC:
[19:08:45] <KenoCore> Just want to clear confusion and owf just makes things worse
[19:10:20] <Rayvon[NSO]> Politics. You are at war. We're holding you dowm, we're trying to wind the war down. We're cutting off your ability to fight and claim you still have the ability. Any outside interference is INTERFERENCE. If Kaskus were on the top-side, we'd have no ability to do anything about it. This is how war works. Real world, in games. However you want to look at it. To obtain the win in aggressive scenarios (aka war), you disable your opponent. If you're not able to disable them, then you're defeated and fighting for naught.
[19:11:13] <KenoCore> Alright I can respect that answer completely thank you.
[19:11:51] <Rayvon[NSO]> We don't want this war, and we'll do what we have to to end it. You guys came walking in expecting to offend us and then just have us white peace you and walk away. That's stupidity at its worst.


Remainder of the discussion with Keno, I hope proves fruitful.

[Banned]

That hasn't answered my question.

 

 

 

it pretty much did.  They're absolutely ok with them receiving aid, but not ok with others receiving it.  Yes, it does echo the same type of "we claim our own color" attitude that another Order, and yes, eventually, as long as NSO keeps up the usual "we can do it, but you can't" attitude, they'll eventually get rolled for it, but in the meantime, there's a global war going on, and Kaskus apparently still has some political alliances to establish before this gets noticed as an attrocity.  It works, until somebody stands up to them.

[Tiberius]

it pretty much did.  They're absolutely ok with them receiving aid, but not ok with others receiving it.  Yes, it does echo the same type of "we claim our own color" attitude that another Order, and yes, eventually, as long as NSO keeps up the usual "we can do it, but you can't" attitude, they'll eventually get rolled for it, but in the meantime, there's a global war going on, and Kaskus apparently still has some political alliances to establish before this gets noticed as an attrocity.  It works, until somebody stands up to them.

 

I don't think it did. In short, I got an explanation saying that NSO doesn't like aid going to Kaskus, and that it is up to Kaskus to respond to aid NSO gets. I asked a simple question which only required an answer of Correct or Incorrect.

[Rayvon]

I don't think it did. In short, I got an explanation saying that NSO doesn't like aid going to Kaskus, and that it is up to Kaskus to respond to aid NSO gets. I asked a simple question which only required an answer of Correct or Incorrect.

Oh - so you want an answer without qualification that you can twist and turn to your own meaning and use. Sorry.