Imperial Decree

[Grealind]

Well this is a pleasant change of pace. Enjoy!

[MitchellBade]

To prevent further escalating this stupid conflict, you went ahead and escalated it. Look at the big brains on Brad!

Edited January 10, 2013 by MitchellBade

[KenoCore]

why is their still arguing we at kaskus dont care at all that NPO joinec we welcome them. anyoned supporting kaskus needs to understand we welcome and are enjoying this. send in iron send in tpf send in any and every alliance you like. we will fight we will have fun. this is what we did from the start and this is what we will do to the end. you can not break our will with size or numbers and you can nit break our will to enjoy this. so say all the smack you want that you will roll us and you will destroy us and you will win because in the end you will not be alo e on the podeum as we will be right with you cheering on the giid fight.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357841259' post='3073985']
Damn you Brehon. I may have to fulfill Kain's perverted fantasy after all.
[/quote]

do it... DO IT! Let your !@#$%* nation be burnt into dust, I beg you



Here's news for you: an aid bomb by NEW means retaliation. Otherwise we'd probably have couped Rayvon for letting a clear attack go unnoticed.

You're welcome BFF; now you've got some time to kick some rationality back into your Indo friends, but that's gotta be as tough as winning the lottery .

Edited January 13, 2013 by Veriti
Removing OCC attack

[death from above 82]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' timestamp='1357844708' post='3074029']
You were a fine fighter for Athens back in the day, and I respect you, so I will not troll your post, but I know, that you know, the larger alliance always takes more damage than the smaller, because big numbers drop faster than small numbers. I ask you now to go back and look at the % of NS lost by both alliances. You will find a decided advantage for NSO, and to claim that somehow you are "doing better", is absurd.
[/quote]

Thanks for not trolling me, point taken % wise we have losted more.

You too sir have my respect from back in the day

Edited January 10, 2013 by death from above 82

[Horatio Longworth]

Fighting allongside our allies is awesome.

Pacifica prevails.

o/ NSO

[Duke Nukem]

The thing everyone in this thread is missing is that we don't NEED a reason to go to war. We have a treaty that states we can go in aggressively for each other. That being said, the NEW thing is just icing on the cake. I suggest you all stop crying, strap a pair of balls on, and fight.

[Isaac MatthewII]

[quote name='Duke Nukem' timestamp='1357847381' post='3074049']
The thing everyone in this thread is missing is that we don't NEED a reason to go to war. We have a treaty that states we can go in aggressively for each other. That being said, the NEW thing is just icing on the cake. I suggest you all stop crying, strap a pair of balls on, and fight.
[/quote]

Nobody said you couldn't fight, the point is you are hiding behind a weak CB to defend the fact that NSO needs you.

[Walshington]

[i][b]ORANGES[/b][/i]
[i][b]You forget the initial reasonings behind the declaration of war. For example:

"Therefore, from this moment onwards, any further attempts to meddle in such a manner - namely, any further aid sent to Kaskus - will be seen as an act of war against the New Pacific Order."
This declaration is, in effect, a line in the sand. It's an effort to contain the conflict, to warn of others who may see fit to act as NEW did.[/b][/i]


Something about this story doesn't quite check out. A line in the sand to warn others to stay out would have been done like this:
"IMPERIAL DECREE: Any aid to Kaskus but a non-ally will be treated as an act of war against NPO." You could have even backed that up with a $200 M aid drop to even the score, which would have been cheaper than the war you are now fighting, and would prevent the war from expanding.

Attacking Kaskus is not a line in the sand, and actually expands the war -- the very thing you argue you were not trying to do.

[i][b]Johnny Apocalypse[/b][/i]
[i][b]I'd say maybe we can find something else to talk about now but that's wishful thinking, we've still got another 50 pages of: 'Haha NSO can't handle Kaskus on their own ner ner nerner nerrr'[/b][/i]

Which NSO has now invited by entering the war. Look, I can tell you all I want that I can run a five minute mile, but if I get a ride for the last quarter of a mile in a car, I haven't proven anything. You'll just have to take me at my word that, had I not gotten in the car, I'd have done it.

I was actually interested in this war -- both sides were talking so much smack about the weak fighters and poor warchests of the other side, SOMEone waqs going to look the fool. I was disappointed that both sides took aid. But when you start with a 4-1 NS advantage and then call in your ally with 10 M additional NS, don't ask me to take your word that you WOULD have been victorious. You had a chance to prove Kaskus to be all show and no go, but you passed.

[b][i]Hereno
You are indeed a fool if you for even a second believed that NSO and it's allies would sit back and chill while Kaskus received aid bombs after already clearly having lost this unnecessary, stupid war;[/i][/b]


Again -- if they had CLEARLY lost the war, clearly you could have finished it on your own. Alabama didn't call in the Seahawks to beat Notre Dame. They finished them off on the field, not with verbal assurances of victory.

[b][i]Daimos[/i][/b]
[b][i]Not at all, I am saying NPO has the right to help an ally. Did NSO ask for help? I do not know. [/i][/b][b] [/b]


How is it you don't know? I know. We ALL know. Rayvon told us:

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1357831396' post='3073899']
NEW came along and threw more wood on that fire as we battle to extinguish it, so we called in a second pumper truck to contain the spread.
[/quote]

[quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1357831351' post='3073897']
[b]Why can’t NSO have the right to accept NPO’s help?[/b]
[/quote]

NSO has EVERY RIGHT to accept NPO's help. There is a legit ODAP. What NSO has now LOST is the right to do is claim that Kaskus picked a fight with them and they used their 4-1 NS advantage to care of business.
Maybe that wasn't important to them, but that original thread was so full of assurances of victory that it seems shocking that they didn't WANT to finish the job, providing a lesson to Kaskus and the rest of Planet Bob.

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357832757' post='3073919']
If NSO's war wasn't go so well, why would the NPO wait for any additional damage to occur before stepping in?
[/quote]

If the war was going so well, why would NPO feel the need to expand it by directly entering instead of using their might to ensure that it did not expand beyond the original two combatants? I can only think of one reason -- like I said, NPO is either a great ally for saving NPO from humiliation or a horrible ally for giving everyone the impression that they couldn't handle an alliance 1/4th their size.

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357833159' post='3073922']
Make no mistake, the reason the NPO is involved is because NEW decided to aid Kaskus. Not to speed up NSO's inevitable victory.
[/quote]

NSO's inevitable victory -- something I now have to take their word for. Old saying in sports: "That's why they play the game." Wars and games are not won by looking at the rosters and stat sheets, they are won on the field. This war was not won on the field, but we are continually being told that if it had been, NSO was clearly/inevitably/obviously going to win.

[quote name='Oranges' timestamp='1357834202' post='3073929']
As I've said before, the intent of Pacifica's involvement is to limit the spread of conflict, and because our ally has been wronged.
We are here to see that that wrong is not repeated.
[/quote]

Both of which could have (and would have) been accomplished by preventing the entry of others and not entering yourself.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1357841574' post='3073988']
This is getting silly. Close the deal, NSO, you're holding us all up.
[/quote]

Sorry, Schatt -- NSO is not closing any deal here. Any deal that gets closed will be closed by NPO and there is no getting around it. Kaskus entered at 1M NS, NSO at 4M. NPO entered at 10M, more than doubling the original combatants. This should, in fact, be called the [i][b]Kaskus-NPO War (featuring NSO)[/b][/i]. Kaskus may burn, but NSO now has zero claim tosay they were the one holding the match. Having a 6' 7", 320 lb. friend does not make you 6' 7", 320 lb.

Kaskus may burn, but the thread in which NSO claimed they would put them in their place will haunt them for a long time. And Kaskus can once again say you needed your 10M NS buddy to beat them.

(sorry about the early quotes, there was a glitch)

[Mugiwara]

Good luck to both sides.

[Hereno]

[quote]
[b][i]Hereno
You are indeed a fool if you for even a second believed that NSO and it's allies would sit back and chill while Kaskus received aid bombs after already clearly having lost this unnecessary, stupid war;[/i][/b]


Again -- if they had CLEARLY lost the war, clearly you could have finished it on your own. Alabama didn't call in the Seahawks to beat Notre Dame. They finished them off on the field, not with verbal assurances of victory.[/quote]

I really hope you don't actually think you made a good comparison there.

If your game is to watch your allies get !@#$ on unnecessarily by a bunch of moronic !@#$%*, that's your perogative. Clearly, NSO and their allies disagree. Which doesn't surprise me, given you actually think Kaskus was winning or would have ever won in an alternate universe without NEW's simply brilliant actions. Simply put - you are delusional.

Edited January 10, 2013 by Hereno

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357848367' post='3074054']
How is it you don't know? I know. We ALL know. Rayvon told us:
[/quote]

I think you're drawing too hard of a conclusion from the analogy of 'calling in a second pumper truck' from the fire lines.


The rest of your post, think what you will.

The initial conversation was more along the lines of me log dumping my discussion with NEW's Emperor regarding their aiding of Kaskus, and then Brehon taking great exception to it and choosing Pacifica's response.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357848139' post='3074051']
Nobody said you couldn't fight, the point is you are hiding behind a weak CB to defend the fact that NSO needs you.
[/quote]
Yeah, no. It's obvious why NPO is doing this, and it's certainly not because NSO "needs" them.

[Walshington]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1357849665' post='3074057']
If your game is to watch your allies get !@#$ on unnecessarily by a bunch of moronic !@#$%*, that's your perogative. Clearly, NSO and their allies disagree. Which doesn't surprise me, given you actually think Kaskus was winning or would have ever won in an alternate universe without NEW's simply brilliant actions. Simply put - you are delusional.
[/quote]

I never said Kaskus was winning, if you read my post.

What I do keep reading is that NSO victory was inevitable/clear/would only not happen in an alternate universe. Only it never got proven. If the victory was so obvious, so ineveitable, and so clear.... why did NSO call in 10M extra NS to help? They seem to have played right into Kaskus' hands, and just when they were on the cusp of an obvious, easy victory.

Not delusional. Just a question that I haven't heard a good answer for.

[Duke Nukem]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357848139' post='3074051']


Nobody said you couldn't fight, the point is you are hiding behind a weak CB to defend the fact that NSO needs you.
[/quote]

Let me state this again, the New Pacific Order does not require a CB to attack Kaskus due to our treaty with NSO. Regardless of whether you view this as a defensive or aggressive war we hold an Optional Defense AND Agression Pact with NSO. The fact that you two are at war gives us a valid enough reason, NEW aid bombing you and being generally unintelligent is just icing on the cake.

[KainIIIC]

[quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357850282' post='3074060']
why did NSO call in 10M extra NS to help?
[/quote]

http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?searchstring=All&search=Kaskus+Nusantara

this should be so painfully obvious, but you've taken the Smurfian way of sticking your head up your ass and repeated the same tired bs. Plus as Ray said, Brehon was pretty enraged by Ray's logs with NEW (and how could one not be?). We had already threatened some kind of retaliation from NEW jumpers that went to Kaskus' AA before, do you honestly think we'd be perfectly fine with an aid bomb?

[Walshington]

[b][i]RAYVON
I think you're drawing too hard of a conclusion from the analogy of 'calling in a second pumper truck' from the fire lines.[/i][/b]

Maybe so. I didn't realize that the call was metaphorical.

[b][i]RAYVON
The rest of your post, think what you will.[/i][/b]

Well, I mean I will. But my post was not a troll or a flame. I'm saying things LOOK one way, and the current explanation doesn't really change the way it looks. If there is another way to see it, I'd be interested.

[b][i]RAYVON
The initial conversation was more along the lines of me log dumping my discussion with NEW's Emperor regarding their aiding of Kaskus, and then Brehon taking great exception to it and choosing Pacifica's response.[/i][/b]

I guess THAT is my big question. After so much talk (on both sides) about how close victory was, the crappy fighting ability of the other side, etc. etc., why would you not tell Brehon -- "thanks, but just put NEW on notice and let us finish what Kaskus started." It seems there is a lot of disdain in NSO and elsewhere for Kaskus' attitude that bigger, more powerful alliances will not fight them one on one. Given the chance to shut them up, you passed, and passed big. Why not teach them the lesson so many think they richly deserve? Certainly you can see the position that if you could have, you would have.

[BrJLa]

[quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357850282' post='3074060']
I never said Kaskus was winning, if you read my post.

What I do keep reading is that NSO victory was inevitable/clear/would only not happen in an alternate universe. Only it never got proven. If the victory was so obvious, so ineveitable, and so clear.... why did NSO call in 10M extra NS to help? They seem to have played right into Kaskus' hands, and just when they were on the cusp of an obvious, easy victory.

Not delusional. Just a question that I haven't heard a good answer for.
[/quote]

I think a couple things don't change here. NPO/NSO, together, can't do any more to Kaskus than NSO could have done themselves. Victory is no more (or less) inevitable now than when we joined. And Kaskus isn't going to respond to these circumstances any differently than what they were going to do anyway. It's still not clear at what point either side is going to decide they've had enough, or how they (we) otherwise work out an ending to this conflict.

The only thing that's changed is now any outside attempt to keep Kaskus fighting will be explicitly deemed an aggressive act against NPO.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

[quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1357845706' post='3074039']
To prevent further escalating this stupid conflict, you went ahead and escalated it. Look at the big brains on Brad!
[/quote]
You should go and help your mates in Kaskus again, it looks like they might need it

[USMC123]

Yea NSO! Why would you utilize as much over whelming force as possible to destroy your enemy quicker when you could fight a longer, more expensive war?! >:|

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Walshington' timestamp='1357851100' post='3074066']
I guess THAT is my big question. After so much talk (on both sides) about how close victory was, the crappy fighting ability of the other side, etc. etc., why would you not tell Brehon -- "thanks, but just put NEW on notice and let us finish what Kaskus started." It seems there is a lot of disdain in NSO and elsewhere for Kaskus' attitude that bigger, more powerful alliances will not fight them one on one. Given the chance to shut them up, you passed, and passed big. Why not teach them the lesson so many think they richly deserve? Certainly you can see the position that if you could have, you would have.
[/quote]

The big thing is, I don't want to spend the next two months drilling the same point into their head while that 50+ page thread expands to 300-400 pages of Sigel and Tan's horrible english. And the discussion with NEWs Emperor made it very clear what was going on, after the course of the entire affair there was little patience to sit and wait for a third transgression that was inevitably on the way.

[berbers]

[quote name='cinduamato' timestamp='1357830406' post='3073887']
This is just pathetic

120's NSO nations needs the 330's NPO nations to hit 30's kaskus ...?
thank you NPO for showing how incompetent NSO in battlefield and how fragile their war chest are...

both of you will gain a hollow victory over kaskus, but not glory.
saving NSO face over kaskus will not save them from the fact that they do needs other muscle to deal with much smaller AA
[/quote]

You could always aid Kaskus again to take the heat off...

[berbers]

[quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1357833125' post='3073921']


I am waiting for you and NPO to man up and admit the reason you got into the war. Hell GOONS looked better than this because they admitted it. When was the last war that NSO didn't call in allies matter of fact.
[/quote]

Isaac, please just stop. You aren't doing yourself, KoH or us any favours posting like this. If you wanted to be involved you had a chance, don't hide on a protected AA and fling mud.

[Brehon]

Its simple folks:

If someone hit NEW that would put NPO/NG vs CnG or NPO/NG vs DR or even NPO/NG vs DR & CnG. Why would I do that? Add to that because INT was absolutely drilled for trying to work with their allies in the Dave War and were thrown under the bus they would have no choice but to respond to a hit on NEW. NEW KNOWS THIS (and if they don't they are stupid little pawns and everyone should leave them in the woodshed). Every political party knows this so lets cut the crap. Instead of allowing this to expand, I am giving NEW a chance to step back and away. And if NEW doesn't, may their allies realize they are being used.

So not only did NEW put their nose in business that isn't theirs, isn't a treaty party, but they are additionally abusing the nature of INT, TORN and BFF. Shameful.

[Walshington]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1357851068' post='3074065']
[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_aid.asp?searchstring=All&search=Kaskus+Nusantara"]http://www.cybernati...askus Nusantara[/url]

this should be so painfully obvious, but you've taken the Smurfian way of sticking your head up your ass and repeated the same tired bs. Plus as Ray said, Brehon was pretty enraged by Ray's logs with NEW (and how could one not be?). We had already threatened some kind of retaliation from NEW jumpers that went to Kaskus' AA before, do you honestly think we'd be perfectly fine with an aid bomb?
[/quote]

No need to take it personal. I [i]get[/i] the NEW aid piece is an act of war. I get that NPO wanted to prevent them from doing it again. I get the AA jumpers (although most seem to be like Hiro for Kaskus and Longshadow for NSO -- longtime members who rejoined their buddies).

What I don't get -- and please make no inferences beyond the text:

You and Kaskus both spent 45 pages like a couple of silverback apes jawjacking about how the other side was weak, poor fighters, lousy warchest, etc, and how each of your victories was just around the corner. Then you both took aid lol. Which NPO could have prevented again without entry, and could have matched for NSO to even the score.

You had the chance to do to Kaskus what they said couldn't be done: take them down without help from your allies. According to NSO's many posters, you had them on the ropes and were about to do just that. And right on the eve of victory... you take help from an ally 10 times their size?

When I ask myself "why would they do that when they said they wouldn't, when people were joking that they might call in allies, and when you had the numbers advantage?"
I would have finished them off and shut their pieholes at that point. And the only answer I get is that your victory was.... what? So obvious you didn't need to achieve it without help?

Just looking for a non-spin, honest answer. Something that starts off with "The reason we allowed NPO to jump in and finish off Kaskus right when our victory was assured instead of just having them scare off NEW and letting us beat Kaskus as we predicted was_____________________________________________________________________________."