Delayed Justice

[NoMercy]

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1329693747' post='2924232']
I'm not a huge fan of seeing TSO take reps in this situation.

After all fuss about reps a you gave us in Bi-Polar, you take part in taking more than 10x the amount we requested of you?

I understand the long time grudge between your two alliances, but it would have been better to just bury the hatchet.
[/quote]

meh kerschbs, as you can see in this thread and as I have stated previously, NpO is the exception not the rule. When it comes to them, really, there is nothing to gain for us. They'll hate us on and on even if we kissed Grub's feet.

[Rhyd3r]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1329684426' post='2924170']
I don't get the impression crymson feels justice has been done, and let's face it. If it wasnt for crymson, I don't think this war would have happened. He's the only person I can recall !@#$%*ing about Grub/NpO.
[/quote]

I guess some people aren't aware that TOP is a democracy and we vote on these sort of things. I am pretty sure the vote to attack NpO was unanimous.

[Dom Zak]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1329688862' post='2924204']
You can argue semantics as much as you want. Iconic figures have the ability to impact the thoughts and opinions of the masses. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I just find it interesting that IRON and valhalla seemed to be relatively quite in this thread, and they didn't ask for reps either. To me, that says a lot about the state of the relationship(s).

EDIT: SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
[/quote]

Well, we've said our sentiments and what more is there to do? Join in on the useless conversation about the WotC?

Good Luck Polar, you put up a good fight.
CCC, love you guys and you fought to the death for your friends -> very admirable
UPN -> Tecumseh, i will hit you one day friend! Rob too
STA -> 3 of your guys MURDERED me the first round. If it wasn't for you, i'd be stuck in the top tier without anyone to fight; so thanks -> Also Colombia, cheers mate!

GLoF -> You are great allies and thanks for all the help
Colossus - > Was fun coordinating with you on some wars!
TOP - > Would've liked so more wars to fight together on, but you guys are too damn big!

To all others who fought, you all did well for your alliances and I did not come across one enemy who was either disrespectful or an ass. Cheers and good luck on rebuilding!

[Hyperion321]

What do you know, the first time I log in for 4 months and the war is finally over. Glad to see Peace I guess. Wish I could have stuck around to make the war that much harder on Sparta's opponents but oh well, such is life.

See you in another ___ months.

[Monster]

What's up, scoobysnacks?

You don't have to worry about that, but I don't think we'll be facing off any of the people involved here. Hopefully.

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1329686769' post='2924199']Since people are talking about the BLEU war, though, Crymson does have a good point there when he says that Polar was quite happy to make friends with most of the alliances that fought against them immediately afterwards, including several MDP level relationships.[/quote]MCXA/TOP/Grämlins/Umbrella/FOK/RnR/Fark made up the coalition which attacked us in the Second Patriotic War. While we put a great deal of effort into improving relations with most of these alliances, the only one we signed a treaty with after the war was Fark and that treaty has never been above an ODP.

Of course you could also count Valhalla, whom we attacked, as a member of the coalition. In that case you are correct, as we signed a MDP with them after the war. But the treaty was never popular and it was cancelled after a few months.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Fallen Fool

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1329688862' post='2924204']
You can argue semantics as much as you want. Iconic figures have the ability to impact the thoughts and opinions of the masses. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

I just find it interesting that IRON and valhalla seemed to be relatively quite in this thread, and they didn't ask for reps either. To me, that says a lot about the state of the relationship(s).

EDIT: SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
[/quote]

That's the problem with people these days, they are all style and no substance, as an element IRON is all about the substance. As for the no reps, we stated our intent from day 1 its written in the DOW that we cared not for Polars wealth. There was a retribution to be had and justice was done. Tittle tattle about the past is now irrelevant to us and quite frankly we have more important things to be getting on with.

[arlov]

Congratulations to my fellow IRON nations and our allies (you guys made a huge contribution)!

Also, my congratulations to nPo & comp. - you guys put up a valid fight, as a relatively new nation in CN I've learned a lot from wars with Polaris nations.

I am glad this is all over, but I would like to make clear that even if peace was not brokered in many months to come, I was prepared to fight as long as it was necessary.

We distaste war, but our peacefulness should not be mistaken for weakness.

Quick recuperations to everyone!

[raasaa]

[quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1329721919' post='2924423']
meh kerschbs, as you can see in this thread and as I have stated previously, NpO is the exception not the rule. When it comes to them, really, there is nothing to gain for us. [b]They'll hate us on and on even if we kissed Grub's feet[/b].
[/quote]
and they will be right in doing so. I am pretty sure that from NpO's perspective, they are willing to bury the hatchet and start afresh with all alliances and TSO will be an exception

[Thrash]

Glad to see this finally end, and kudos for finally burying the hatchet (I hope).

[enderland]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1329735748' post='2924511']
What do you know, the first time I log in for 4 months and the war is finally over. Glad to see Peace I guess. Wish I could have stuck around to make the war that much harder on Sparta's opponents but oh well, such is life.

See you in another ___ months.
[/quote]

How did you know there was a war if you haven't logged on in 4 months?

...



[quote]MCXA/TOP/Grämlins/Umbrella/FOK/RnR/Fark made up the coalition which attacked us in the Second Patriotic War. While we put a great deal of effort into improving relations with most of these alliances, the only one we signed a treaty with after the war was Fark and that treaty has never been above an ODP.
[/quote]

"Second Patriotic War?"

What's the more generally accepted name for this war you are referring to?

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1329749562' post='2924574']
How did you know there was a war if you haven't logged on in 4 months?

...





"Second Patriotic War?"

What's the more generally accepted name for this war you are referring to?
[/quote]
WotC. Their name is more catchy, though.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Yevgeni Luchenkov

[enderland]

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1329749737' post='2924575']
WotC.
[/quote]

Awesome, thanks.

I've never understood NpPO's tendency to rename wars internally.

edit: speaking of that, what is their name for Bi-Polar and Bye-Polar?

Edited February 20, 2012 by enderland

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1329749828' post='2924577']
Awesome, thanks.

I've never understood NpPO's tendency to rename wars internally.

edit: speaking of that, what is their name for Bi-Polar and Bye-Polar?
[/quote]
They seemingly use "Bi-Polar War" too, although they have labeled this war "The Grudge War".

[kerschbs]

[quote name='NoMercy' timestamp='1329721919' post='2924423']
meh kerschbs, as you can see in this thread and as I have stated previously, NpO is the exception not the rule. When it comes to them, really, there is nothing to gain for us. They'll hate us on and on even if we kissed Grub's feet.
[/quote]

Oh I get it, just different styles. Believe me, I'm not gonna hate you guys (except maybe Iggy ) for anything like this.

I'm glad you got to slag Polaris, don't get me wrong, I just would have handled it a little differently.

No sweat in the end amigo.

[DocOctane]

Here's to Victory!

Now let's move forward.....buying tech 3/50

[chefjoe]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1329737567' post='2924525']
MCXA/TOP/Grämlins/Umbrella/FOK/RnR/Fark made up the coalition which attacked us in the Second Patriotic War. While we put a great deal of effort into improving relations with most of these alliances, the only one we signed a treaty with after the war was Fark and that treaty has never been above an ODP.

Of course you could also count Valhalla, whom we attacked, as a member of the coalition. In that case you are correct, as we signed a MDP with them after the war. But the treaty was never popular and it was cancelled after a few months.
[/quote] The way you handled that treaty and its canceling directly led to part of the troubles you have dealt with in the last couple wars. If you use people and screw them over don't be surprised when payback comes. Hopefully you have learned. Time shall tell...

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1329749562' post='2924574']
How did you know there was a war if you haven't logged on for 4 months?
[/quote]
There is a magical computer program called skype where people can get together and tell each other stuff. You should check it out.

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='enderland' timestamp='1329749828' post='2924577']Awesome, thanks.I've never understood NpPO's tendency to rename wars internally.[/quote]Names have meaning and value. By accepting the popular name for a war you implicitly accept the popular narrative about what the conflict was and what it meant. By creating our own name for the war we tie the conflict into our alliance narrative and distinguish what it meant for our community.

For instance, to the greater Cybernations community there is the [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/NpO-CIN_War]NpO-CIN War[/url], in which Polar attacked and disbanded CIN for possibly dubious reasons. For Polar, however, there is the Polar War of Secession, in which Polar finally dealt with a renegade band of traitors after they attempted to remove a respected member of our community from existence.

Same conflict, but different perspectives and meanings. By clearly staking out our own, we enrich our traditions and history, and clarify our place and purpose. So the real question, to me at least, is why other alliance seem willing to allow their sense of history to be defined by a mass of often unsympathetic, or uninformed, foreigners.


All that said, the popular names for wars are used in Polar as often as not and I almost wrote War of the Coalition instead of Second Patriotic War. But the ideal is there and should be, in my estimation, something to strive toward.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1329750099' post='2924581']They seemingly use "Bi-Polar War" too, although they have labeled this war "The Grudge War".[/quote]I think most of Polar would agree BiPolar is an apt, and rather clever, name for that war. Far better, in any case, than "Second Unjust War", which was narrow, cliche and inaccurate.

As for the Grudge War, well, it fits like a glove.

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1329757289' post='2924614']The way you handled that treaty and its canceling directly led to part of the troubles you have dealt with in the last couple wars. If you use people and screw them over don't be surprised when payback comes. Hopefully you have learned. Time shall tell...[/quote]I think the lesson is the Emperor should not sign treaties the membership and government despise simply because he had faith in the leadership of the other alliance.

But that is just my reading. I am sure Grub would disagree on some level.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Fallen Fool

[Crymson]

[quote name='Fallen Fool' timestamp='1329737567' post='2924525']
MCXA/TOP/Grämlins/Umbrella/FOK/RnR/Fark made up the coalition which attacked us in the Second Patriotic War. While we put a great deal of effort into improving relations with most of these alliances, the only one we signed a treaty with after the war was Fark and that treaty has never been above an ODP.

Of course you could also count Valhalla, whom we attacked, as a member of the coalition. In that case you are correct, as we signed a MDP with them after the war. But the treaty was never popular and it was cancelled after a few months.
[/quote]

Let's not forget NPO. NPO made several requests for government terms, some of which we granted. One of these was the demand that Grub be replaced by Griswalds, a term that Grub rejected and that the coalition did not push, but one which members of Polar nevertheless found very reprehensible. When your terms were up, you signed with NPO immediately.

As for FARK, they made very clear that they would defend any ODP partner from any attacks they found unjustified. They certainly noted that the ODP upgrade was intended to protect Polar from TOP, IRON etc. Your claim that you never became especially close with them is not true.

Too, whatever the case of the alliances whom you chose to hold a grudge against, you inexplicably condensed them down to TOP alone. Perhaps this was an at attempt self-delusion such that you wouldn't need to admit that you'd so pissed off the world that alliances from just about every other sphere in CN attacked you. Whatever.

Double standards ftl. Like I said, we see constant warping of the truth by members of Polar (amongst others) for the purposes of their arguments. Given how transparent and obvious it is, I don't know why they bother.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Crymson

[Ogaden]

We use "Grudge War".
This is the war medal: [img]http://rialliance.net/awards/75-mini.png[/img]

Edited February 20, 2012 by James Dahl

[TheEraser]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1329779393' post='2924802']
Let's not forget NPO. NPO made several requests for government terms, some of which we granted. One of these was the demand that Grub be replaced by Griswalds, a term that Grub rejected and that the coalition did not push, but one which members of Polar nevertheless found very reprehensible. When your terms were up, you signed with NPO immediately.

As for FARK, they made very clear that they would defend any ODP partner from any attacks they found unjustified. They certainly noted that the ODP upgrade was intended to protect Polar from TOP, IRON etc. You claim that you never became especially close with them is not true.

Too, whatever the case of the alliances whom you chose to hold a grudge against, you inexplicably condensed them down to TOP alone. Perhaps this was an at self-delusion, such that you wouldn't need to admit that you'd so pissed off the word that alliances from just about every other sphere in CN attacked you. Whatever.

Double standards ftl. Like I said, we seem constant warping of the truth by members of Polar (amongst others) for the purposes of their arguments. Given how transparent and obvious it is, I don't know why they bother.
[/quote]
Pacifica is a terrible example here. Neither alliance wants anything to do with the other. That treaty was signed more bc of history than anything else. If that's your go to example of polar being friendly with someone, maybe you're trying just a bit too hard.

Also he never claimed that the "never became especially close" with dark. He stated that the treaty has never gone higher than and odp and that took a lot of diplomatic work to get it there.

Face it polar never truly put its best foot forward to repairing things with TOP but you guys didn't exactly extend any olive branches either. Had the 2nd patriotic war not happened perhaps things would have stayed on a positive curb for both alliances, the past is the past.

[Crymson]

[quote name='elborrador' timestamp='1329781790' post='2924826']
Face it polar never truly put its best foot forward to repairing things with TOP but [b]you guys didn't exactly extend any olive branches either[/b]. Had the 2nd patriotic war not happened perhaps things would have stayed on a positive curb for both alliances, the past is the past.
[/quote]

Very untrue. Ask your leadership. They'll tell you.

[Blue Lightning]

They probably wont, actually.

[Vandal]

[quote name='raasaa' timestamp='1329748471' post='2924563']
and they will be right in doing so. I am pretty sure that from NpO's perspective, they are willing to bury the hatchet and start afresh with all alliances and TSO will be an exception
[/quote]

We prefer it that way. As friends, You never knew when NpO would screw you over. At least as enemies we know where we stand.