Seerow Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1326478908' post='2898898'] Usually, agreeing with both Krack and Myth is a very very bad thing, but this topic was really Un-nessicary. Everyone on your side already agrees with you, and FAN, FARK, and Sparta aren't going to decide to quit just because they had a mean OWF topic made about them. So, why did you do this exactly? [/quote] For the entertainment of people not directly involved with the conflict, or government? The forums need more topics like this, not less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1326478479' post='2898891'] Oh, there are several reasons for that. We want to make another attempt at explaining to the other party in the negotiations why we think they aren't being wise. We want to explain to our greater audience what is going on so that their reaction might add additional pressure, and so that they might better understand why we might decide to change policies should this continue. We also want to make it clear to any future combatants we face that whilst we are going to play nice overall, if they cross the line into what we feel is pursuing an unreasonable war against us, we might stop being so nice. [/quote] Could I trouble you into agreeing there was a better way of doing it? For a message purportedly containing logic, this is the first I've seen of it aside from my analysis. Thanks for responding to the message, nevertheless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1326478991' post='2898899'] The forums need more topics like this, not less. [/quote] Maybe, but this topic is really boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 If you thought this was a mean topic toward FARK/FAN/SPARTA you didn't read !@#$. Also when I am mean it will be known (come on you have heard me on the radio). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leet Guy Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1326479113' post='2898901'] Maybe, but this topic is really boring. [/quote] I'm sorry guys time to lock the thread please, it didn't meet Omni's brutal entertainment standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have seen Omni's posts... he doesn't actually have a standard Come on Omni you know its true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1326479326' post='2898903'] I'm sorry guys time to lock the thread please, it didn't meet Omni's brutal entertainment standards. [/quote] Thank you, next time I'd like for you to ask in advance. I can be reach by pms or on irc daily. [quote name='Brehon' timestamp='1326479357' post='2898904'] I have seen Omni's posts... he doesn't actually have a standard Come on Omni you know its true. [/quote] You have broken my heart. Seriously though, it just seems sort of pointless. It's not going to change anything, and I doubt this reveals anything anyone didn't know. I mean, FAN and FARK hardly ever post on the OWF. So you're not even going to get a "no u" most likely. I do wish you good luck on bringing a speedy close to this conflict though. The boring-ness of this topic doesn't effect (someone see if I just used this word wrong) the stupidness of FARK and FAN. Edited January 13, 2012 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimos Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1326479113' post='2898901'] Maybe, but this topic is really boring. [/quote] I see you still lurking in this thread. Obviously, not bored enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I dont understand why so many people have such a hard time admitting defeat. If people dont want to surrender then start piling up the reps and lets gets some more alliances to pile on these people who dont feel like they need to surrender just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDarknessOfLight Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1326473799' post='2898811'] Why wait for next war? They clearly preempted you, and you won. They don't appreciate the white peace offers, I say start adding on 50 tech per member for every day they avoid taking peace. [/quote] I agree with this post. But I have to be honest, I have noticed how wars suddenly went from who is the "victor" and who was "defeated" to wars where we all came to an agreement and achieved "white peace." It use to be fun putting reps on an alliance for losing but now, we all can't accept if we lose a war or not. NSO vs Legion- Legion could actually say they won but nope.. White peace. So no one won. MHA vs GATO front, white peace.. No one can say who won but white peace.. Even though we know there is a "victor." It kinda makes me bored to do war now as people are not very communicative to the their targets or nations cry baby if they are attacked. But reps need to come back.. I'm tired of this damn white peace.. Its basically like we are all now heading towards being neutral alliances as we come to agreements.. instead of accepting the fact we won/lost a war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I'm not sure too many people will fault you (NPO) if you request reps or stipulate aid restrictions or force nations to leave peace mode or something else to the alliances who turned down white peace initially. Then again, if they are doing meaningful damage to you, it might be in both parties best interest to end the war. If it's ONLY FARK/FAN/Sparta's interest to end the war then this thread is completely pointless - if NPO doesn't care if they end the war then what do you have to lose by continuing it? But if NPO [i]does[/i] want the war to end, then FARK/FAN/Sparta *do* in fact have negotiating power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 There is absolutely no reason to give in to demands from the losing side in this war. If alliances don't want to surrender then let them get harsher terms every day for wasting our time and let them get rolled into the ground, or stagnate in PM, while the rest of us grow around them. I have been a major critic of harsh peace terms in the past, even the recent past (i.e. DT last war). But this is a different situation, more akin to TPF in Karma: the war is lost, terms are on the table that permit these alliances to walk away with nothing worse than an 'L' in their wiki history against this war, and they are taking the position that they want to dictate to the victors how the war should end. You have been offered fair terms and you are wasting our time (and like Brehon says probably annoying people into not giving nice terms at all next war, which would be a regression of much of what Karma was fought for). Before the inevitable posting of a peace agreement where the losers refuse to admit they have lost, let me point out that I'm not currently in a position to make our alliance or bloc policy. If I was, alliances I'm at war with wouldn't be getting peace on their own terms, and mine would definitely include the word 'surrender' and a no-reentry clause. If you can't admit defeat when you've clearly lost, you are acting like petulant children and you should be treated as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gumpper Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='enderland' timestamp='1326482408' post='2898938'] If it's ONLY FARK/FAN/Sparta's interest to end the war then this thread is completely pointless - if NPO doesn't care if they end the war then what do you have to lose by continuing it? But if NPO [i]does[/i] want the war to end, then FARK/FAN/Sparta *do* in fact have negotiating power. [/quote] Frankly it seems like the vast majority are happy to keep pounding nations into the dust. More than anything I think the posts here were to help enlighten the greater community so that it doesn't appear that the NPO is just pounding Fan et al. into the dust with no way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derantol Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1326478991' post='2898899'] For the entertainment of people not directly involved with the conflict, or government? The forums need more topics like this, not less. [/quote] This, please. Drama is good for this game, especially fresh drama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daimos Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Not everyone in our ranks is happy FAN and FARK are getting white peace but our leadership is more lenient than some of us. There is more noble cause to lose all your pixels. This is not one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted January 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Damnit Bob stop!!! You are ruining my street cred! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Gumpper' timestamp='1326482661' post='2898942'] Frankly it seems like the vast majority are happy to keep pounding nations into the dust. More than anything I think the posts here were to help enlighten the greater community so that it doesn't appear that the NPO is just pounding Fan et al. into the dust with no way out. [/quote] I would say that most people who have any serious interest in CN politics knew this. I'm not sure... but most people who would read these forums most likely knew. Either way, this thread does not seem to be a primary purpose as an "fyi, NPO is not the reason peace is an issue" type thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='LordDarknessOfLight' timestamp='1326481298' post='2898926'] I agree with this post. But I have to be honest, I have noticed how wars suddenly went from who is the "victor" and who was "defeated" to wars where we all came to an agreement and achieved "white peace." It use to be fun putting reps on an alliance for losing but now, we all can't accept if we lose a war or not. NSO vs Legion- Legion could actually say they won but nope.. White peace. So no one won. MHA vs GATO front, white peace.. No one can say who won but white peace.. Even though we know there is a "victor." [/quote] MHA admitted defeat ("1) MHA, KofN, PPO, Apparatus, and TuR admit defeat and surrender to the alliances of GATO, MK, ODN, TPE, TLR, NG, Umbrella, VE, TFD, Hooligans, and Alchemy." http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108046). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Daimos' timestamp='1326480114' post='2898912'] I see you still lurking in this thread. Obviously, not bored enough. [/quote] Yea I know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Moose Hole' timestamp='1326476168' post='2898850'] It should be at least 100. We are getting a ton of tech from this tech raid, and if we only have to pay 50 tech per day, it's more economically advantageous to keep the war going. [/quote] Ah delusion at its finest. If this was a tech raid, you may want to rethink your raiding policies. Because this one has gone horribly, horribly wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1326482645' post='2898941'] There is absolutely no reason to give in to demands from the losing side in this war. If alliances don't want to surrender then let them get harsher terms every day for wasting our time and let them get rolled into the ground, or stagnate in PM, while the rest of us grow around them. I have been a major critic of harsh peace terms in the past, even the recent past (i.e. DT last war). But this is a different situation, more akin to TPF in Karma: the war is lost, terms are on the table that permit these alliances to walk away with nothing worse than an 'L' in their wiki history against this war, and they are taking the position that they want to dictate to the victors how the war should end. You have been offered fair terms and you are wasting our time (and like Brehon says probably annoying people into not giving nice terms at all next war, which would be a regression of much of what Karma was fought for). Before the inevitable posting of a peace agreement where the losers refuse to admit they have lost, let me point out that I'm not currently in a position to make our alliance or bloc policy. If I was, alliances I'm at war with wouldn't be getting peace on their own terms, and mine would definitely include the word 'surrender' and a no-reentry clause. If you can't admit defeat when you've clearly lost, you are acting like petulant children and you should be treated as such.[/quote] QFT. Put another way, GOD and RIA when offered essentially the same terms (which had previously included a no outside aid clause), they jumped at the chance and walked away whistling. That would be because in admitting defeat saved them even more pounding than they had already taken. Indeed, RnR admitted defeat and took one for the team and they were by all accounts winning their part of the fight. Fark, FAN...good effort but do your membership a favor...surrender today. There is no shame in being over matched and putting up a good fight. There is nothing to be gained from further resistance but people eventually getting eliminated through bill lock and no one will respect you more for it, if anything they are respecting you less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enderland Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='MitchellBade' timestamp='1326484595' post='2898976'] Ah delusion at its finest. If this was a tech raid, you may want to rethink your raiding policies. Because this one has gone horribly, horribly wrong. [/quote] Nah, this is a tech raid gone horribly right for a lot of people (who got beaten down far enough to be in the "low" ranges) - lots of war, horribly outmatched opponents, flexibility to do whatever they want, tons of money. Sounds like a dream for someone who enjoys war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Moose Hole' timestamp='1326476168' post='2898850'] It should be at least 100. We are getting a ton of tech from this tech raid, and if we only have to pay 50 tech per day, it's more economically advantageous to keep the war going. [/quote] I missed this post earlier. Much like how you missed the suggestion was 50 tech per nation per day. I highly doubt every member of your alliance is gaining 50 tech per day from their wars. But if they are.... I want to know how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordDarknessOfLight Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Penlugue Solaris' timestamp='1326483496' post='2898963'] MHA admitted defeat ("1) MHA, KofN, PPO, Apparatus, and TuR admit defeat and surrender to the alliances of GATO, MK, ODN, TPE, TLR, NG, Umbrella, VE, TFD, Hooligans, and Alchemy." http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=108046). [/quote] Oh ok, I saw that but I must over read that part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitchellBade Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='enderland' timestamp='1326485104' post='2898985'] Nah, this is a tech raid gone horribly right for a lot of people (who got beaten down far enough to be in the "low" ranges) - lots of war, horribly outmatched opponents, flexibility to do whatever they want, tons of money. Sounds like a dream for someone who enjoys war [/quote] Fark is down to one-third of its pre-war strength and has lost nearly one-fifth of its total membership. FAN, down to approximately forty percent pre-war strength and has lost a handful of its membership. I wouldn't exactly count that as going right for a lot of people at all, maybe some or few, but certainly not [b]a lot[/b]. But let's continue to spin this into a tech raid gone right just for the sake of avoiding that pesky word that Fark and FAN fail to grasp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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