Denial Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Seerow' timestamp='1326473799' post='2898811'] Why wait for next war? They clearly preempted you, and you won. They don't appreciate the white peace offers, I say start adding on 50 tech per member for every day they avoid taking peace. [/quote] This needs to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='EViL0nE' timestamp='1326499647' post='2899122'] So ITT we learn 1) Fark/FAN are ruining CN because the next war will have massive reps due to their reluctance to accept white peace. So they should just admit defeat. 2) Fark/FAN are ruining their alliances and making them politically irrelevant because they will just be destroyed or sit in DLT mode while everyone else outgrows them. So they should just admit defeat. 3) Fark/FAN should be charged massive reps for (1) and (2). So they should just admit defeat. [/quote] I think they are suggesting they should just admit defeat. [quote]I'm not quite sure how (1) affects Fark/FAN if (2) is true, though. Can someone explain that? If they are taking themselves out of the chess game of life on planet Bob by not accepting your terms, why would they care about the poor !@#$%^& who receives crippling reps? Or are you saying they should admit defeat now so the next time they are involved in a war you can offer them crippling reps? I'm also curious how (3) is any sort of logical conclusion to the current situation. They aren't willing to accept the current peace offer, so offering them harsher terms is somehow going to change their mind?[/quote] Uh oh ... somebody's using critical thinking skills and logic. Good sir, we will have none of this in our OWF threads. Please edit your post post haste. [quote] It seems at this point, the plethora of alliances that bandwagoned onto Fark/FAN for the sake of talking crap about how they are terrible at war when fighting a coalition many, many times their size have simply created a monster of nations at relatively small NS levels with a ton of tech and WCs that will not be matched by people who are legitimately within their range. I'd tell those fighting them to have fun with that, but it's already been stated that Fark/FAN are ruining everyone's fun by not admitting defeat.[/quote] The biggest flaw on Planet Bob right now (and for the last three or four years) is that the tech cap on NS was lifted. It's created situations like this. Warring nations should have similar infra levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326502505' post='2899143'] lol. If you really think they didn't think they'd get countered through oA chains, you're dreaming. Hitting NG would bring in VE/FOK in on them. BAPS and Oly are also elite fighting alliances. I'm oh so sorry they didn't play into your hand instead. You might have a legit point if they just hit TIO. I don't really care about the surrender/defeat thing since I didn't really like it when RoK did it. You all cheered it on, so reap what you sow. [/quote] Nice for a quick argument, sure, but NG wasn't the only alternative. They could have hit NoR, TOP, TLR and several others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1326504173' post='2899153'] Nice for a quick argument, sure, but NG wasn't the only alternative. They could have hit NoR, TOP, TLR and several others. [/quote] Couldn't hit NoR. TOP brings in PF immediately rather than requiring an organization of a long chain. TLR brings in MK, Int, GATO, Deinos in addition to any possible oA chains. Edited January 14, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Two options really for Sparta: 1. Go DH-NPO on their asses and force them to bring out those two hundred peace moders. 2. Threaten to reengage MHA. I know FARK won't care and FAN sure as hell won't, but Sparta is !@#$@#$ pathetic for hiding like cowards and then getting all !@#$%*y over "defeat." Reminds me of rok in the last war too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1326480609' post='2898918'] I dont understand why so many people have such a hard time admitting defeat. If people dont want to surrender then start piling up the reps and lets gets some more alliances to pile on these people who dont feel like they need to surrender just yet. [/quote] Winner! b-b-b-but you-know-who will get butthurt even more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Who are you all trying to fool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='IYIyTh' timestamp='1326504927' post='2899159'] Who are you all trying to fool? [/quote] Why are you in IRON and not Sparta? or one of these other alliances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Humphrey Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1326493876' post='2899058'] Fark would love to make NPO the bad guy again. By refusing the entirely reasonable terms you've offered them, they hope to provoke you into demanding reps and making the world fear the "ebil NPO" again. Unfortunately for them, the entire world recognizes how !@#$@#$ retarded Fark are, and would have no sympathy for them if you levied reps. Hell, most would applaud you after they spit your offer back at you. [/quote] The first part is why this thread is necessary, imo. The longer this goes on for, the greater the likelihood there is of Fark/FAN playing victim in order to swing public opinion (e.g. claiming another VietFAN). This thread shows that they remain at war by their own choice. As for the idea mentioned earlier in the thread of increasing the tech per person to be demanded as reps for each day the war continues: The problem with this is that each day would perversely increase the cost of agreeing to peace. So while the [i]threat[/i] of increasing reps is an incentive to agreeing to peace, there would presumably come a point at which the cost of the reps to be paid would outweigh the cost of remaining at war. Edited January 14, 2012 by Sir Humphrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brehon Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Someone gets it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fingolfin Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 People nowadays...no cahones. Truth be told, Sparta has 25 nations above 70k NS that are in peace mode and if they actually organized an offensive they could do some serious damage. Sure they'd suffer considerable losses themselves but at least they'd go down fighting. Disappointing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1326505215' post='2899161'] Why are you in IRON and not Sparta? or one of these other alliances [/quote] I'm not understanding why someone's alliance affiliation should handicap their ability to reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seerow Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Sir Humphrey' timestamp='1326505799' post='2899163'] The first part is why this thread is necessary, imo. The longer this goes on for, the greater the likelihood there is of Fark/FAN playing victim in order to swing public opinion (e.g. claiming another VietFAN). This thread shows that they remain at war by their own choice. As for the idea mentioned earlier in the thread of increasing the tech per person to be demanded as reps for each day the war continues: The problem with this is that each day would perversely increase the cost of agreeing to peace. So while the [i]threat[/i] of increasing reps is an incentive to agreeing to peace, there would presumably come a point at which the cost of the reps to be paid would outweigh the cost of remaining at war. [/quote] Well the idea behind the specific reps I suggested is that for every 5 days they remain at war (assuming no DRAs, because I'm lazy), they end up with 10 days worth of reparations. This is encouragement to exit quickly. If they hold the war for a month, they'll be spending two months paying for it. But if they quit in the first 5 days, they can be done paying almost instantly. If you wanted to make it a more even trade off, make it 50 tech per 2 days instead of per day. Yes, it does assume 100% compliance. But the beauty of charging tech per nation is you can enforce the terms on a per nation basis. Any nation who refuses to pay their share goes back to war until they start paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Also lol at Alterego, who is allied to mhawk, whose heroic act in Karma was declaring on Avalanche and staying at war even though it did nothing to help NPO. It was more like the TKTB thing in PB-NpO. Edited January 14, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaiar Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Scorponok' timestamp='1326491497' post='2899044'] This is what we suggested. But seriously, I don't get it FARK. Your members hardly know most of this, I'd like to see what they'd say if they found out gov had rejected White Peace with no reps. [/quote] Why don't you mass message Fark nations and link them to this thread? Brehon, if your enemies are not ready for peace on whatever terms then you guys just have to keep fighting. What's the big deal? If they prolong peace then issue additional terms. But, be prepared for them to reject those terms and fight longer until it gets back to white peace. This entire situation can go in circles forever. Fark, Spart, FAN...they are defeated when they are actually defeated and accept terms. Until then, NPO and company need to keep slugging it out. You have not won simply because you say you won. You actually have to get the surrenders or whatever. You guys will be alright so just fight on and get peace whenever it comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Anyone who has clearly lost a war should not drag things out. Especially when they are offered what amounts to white peace. Sure, you can fight on for silly pride, but in my opinion the price for pride should be crushing. The current coalition can demand whatever terms they want. One would think an amicable peace, especially since FARK/FAN are the aggressors, would be a gift from heaven rather then something to be spurned. Pride cometh before fall. If they rejected an honest effort to end the conflict simply because they don't want to admit defeat to NPO, then I honestly would have no sympathy for NPO forcing the issue to the point of crushing reparations, be it in tech or loss of sovereignty. After all, continuing the war at this point is indicative of vindictiveness on the part of FARK and FAN (as if it was not already apparent). And of course, FARK could choose to keep on fighting, but everyone has a breaking point eventually. My money is on them finding theirs long before their enemies do. Edited January 14, 2012 by Aeros Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedj Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 The greatest part of all of this is the group who doesnt want to use the words "defeat" or "surrender" because of how it will look against their perfect record on the wikia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 "Fark, FAN, Sparta hereby admit statistical defeat to an overwhelming force of numbers." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefjoe Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1326505215' post='2899161'] Why are you in IRON and not Sparta? or one of these other alliances [/quote] My guess is he has thoughts of trying to influence IRON from the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltus Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1326509013' post='2899186'] The greatest part of all of this is the group who doesnt want to use the words "defeat" or "surrender" because of how it will look against their perfect record on the wikia [/quote] I'm convinced that this is the only logical reason left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaiar Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Aeros' timestamp='1326508607' post='2899183'] Anyone who has clearly lost a war should not drag things out. Especially when they are offered what amounts to white peace. Sure, you can fight on for silly pride, but in my opinion the price for pride should be crushing. The current coalition can demand whatever terms they want. One would think an amicable peace, especially since FARK/FAN are the aggressors, would be a gift from heaven rather then something to be spurned. Pride cometh before fall. If they rejected an honest effort to end the conflict simply because they don't want to admit defeat to NPO, then I honestly would have no sympathy for NPO forcing the issue to the point of crushing reparations, be it in tech or loss of sovereignty. After all, continuing the war at this point is indicative of vindictiveness on the part of FARK and FAN (as if it was not already apparent). [/quote] Most wars on this planet are won the moment they start. So by your logic and that of others in this thread then this war should have been over the day Fark declared. The point has been made and you just made it again. White peace now or peace with harsh terms later. As much as the winners can dictate terms, the losers can also dictate when they will accept those terms be it white or harsh. The only option is to keep fighting and see what terms will bring this pointless front to an end. Further, why isn't anyone talking about the other front not closing out? What are the terms for NpO? Are they prolonging peace by not admitting their defeat? This thread is pure propaganda. The winners want peace so they call the losers petulant children. The losers could also be called warriors. Whatever your vantage point is, is what you will choose to call the sides. This front was pointless when it started and it is pointless now and will be pointless for however long it continues. This was supposed to relieve stress from the NpO front (LOL) or at least that was the part of the logic for it (as told in some circles). I did not see it then and do not see it now. NpO, are you less stressed since Fark opened this front? (Full Disclosure: NpO did not ask for this front to open. The idea was generated out of someone's ass and as can be concluded about anything coming out of an ass this front turned to poo almost immediately). Edited January 14, 2012 by Jaiar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IYIyTh Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 It's a conspiracy. Using logic now requires an agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derantol Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Jaiar' timestamp='1326507589' post='2899177'] Why don't you mass message Fark nations and link them to this thread? Brehon, if your enemies are not ready for peace on whatever terms then you guys just have to keep fighting. What's the big deal? If they prolong peace then issue additional terms. But, be prepared for them to reject those terms and fight longer until it gets back to white peace. This entire situation can go in circles forever. Fark, Spart, FAN...they are defeated when they are actually defeated and accept terms. Until then, NPO and company need to keep slugging it out. You have not won simply because you say you won. You actually have to get the surrenders or whatever. You guys will be alright so just fight on and get peace whenever it comes. [/quote] Wars are not fought solely with statistics and numbers. This thread is evidence of that. The "big deal" is that the longer that war goes on, the longer it takes for all parties involved to get back to the normal state of affairs, and the longer it takes for everybody to grow. You're right, Fark, Sparta, and FAN can refuse to accept surrender terms, but Brehon evidently isn't out for the complete and utter annihilation of these alliances. Besides, the only time the stalling the end of war ever helped a losing alliance was when IRON fought Grämlins, and the only reason that worked was because Grämlins was withering away and IRON managed to get favorable public opinion. The alliances fighting Fark, FAN, and Sparta are not in imminent danger of dying out. They all have many other options; one of those options is this thread. [quote]This thread is pure propaganda. The winners want peace so they call the losers petulant children. The losers could also be called warriors. Whatever your vantage point is, is what you will choose to call the sides.[/quote] Propaganda is a weapon of war. And remember the propaganda doesn't have to be deceitful or misleading in nature to be considered propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krack Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Clearly, what is holding up this whole process is that NPO refuses to write a beer review.* [size="1"]*Or milk[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rontastic Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 We're missing the real point here. My sig really says it all. Because if there's one thing I've learned about all of this... it's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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