Power Center Comparisons 2.0

[Confusion]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1309647538' post='2747166']
Why in the hell would we have surrendered? Our job wasn't to beat the crap out of AZTEC. Our role was to stall them to make sure that VE had a clear shot at polar without interference. Whether or not we shed stats had no bearing on that goal. Getting a victory was a nice bonus, but beating AZTEC militarily was not our primary objective. It was great that we did it, but whether we lost stars wise or not we would never have surrendered. If we did, our allies in C&G, SF, and PB would have been theatened, and we could not allow that.
[/quote]

Hey buddy, Sparta was going to surrender and agree to a no re-entry clause as long as AZTEC & Company agreed to do the same.

[quote name='Tulak Hord' timestamp='1309659519' post='2747283']
Considering most of you were running out of cash and kept your top tiers hiding because you knew you couldn't win, I'd say we were holding our own quite well despite being outnumbered by what, 3 to 1? Did Fark and MHAs entry speed things along? Definitely. Could you have pulled off a victory? No. It was a fun war regardless so feel free to bring it up on our forum if you wish to discuss it further since this isn't the topic for it.

Also, I concur with Feanor, more Pillowfort plox. Thanks for putting the work in to make this, Hyp.
[/quote]

Uh, I don't know what you're on but, Sparta's warchests were [i]horrible[/i], I don't even know how you can come out in public and talk about warchests. Anyways, Whatever.


Confusion.

[Auctor]

[quote name='Tulak Hord' timestamp='1309659519' post='2747283']
Considering most of you were running out of cash and kept your top tiers hiding because you knew you couldn't win, I'd say we were holding our own quite well despite being outnumbered by what, 3 to 1? Did Fark and MHAs entry speed things along? Definitely. Could you have pulled off a victory? No. It was a fun war regardless so feel free to bring it up on our forum if you wish to discuss it further since this isn't the topic for it.

Also, I concur with Feanor, more Pillowfort plox. Thanks for putting the work in to make this, Hyp.
[/quote]

ahahahhahahahahahaha

I look forward to more glorious Spartan victories in the future and I'll leave it at that.

[Lukapaka]

Sparta prepared for a longer war than AZTEC really lasted, interpretted as nations hiding and... 'infra-hugging'. I won't deny my gratitude toward our allies in helping us with our war against AZTEC, but with the slight pressure MHA and Fark applied was enough to break them, and get the hell out of the war. If anybody on the other side thought Sparta was near defeat, I think they underestimated our strategery.

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1309657555' post='2747264']
Actually I'm curious now, when did we surrender to you?
[/quote]

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98374"]February 7th[/url]

[Mayzie]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1309665953' post='2747380']
Sparta prepared for a longer war than AZTEC really lasted, interpretted as nations hiding and... 'infra-hugging'. I won't deny my gratitude toward our allies in helping us with our war against AZTEC, but with the slight pressure MHA and Fark applied was enough to break them, and get the hell out of the war. If anybody on the other side thought Sparta was near defeat, I think they underestimated our strategery.



[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98374"]February 7th[/url]
[/quote]

The slight pressure? Lol. You do make me laugh, look, you can claim anything you like from that war but Sparta being victorious before you had to beg your allies to cover your ass is not one of them. Get over yourself.

[Auctor]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1309665953' post='2747380']
[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98374"]February 7th[/url]
[/quote]
Interestingly enough, there's no surrender or even an admission of defeat there. Care to try again?

[Lukapaka]

They surrendered rights, enough for our mission.

[quote]You do make me laugh, look, you can claim anything you like from that war but Sparta being victorious before you had to beg your allies to cover your ass is not one of them. Get over yourself.[/quote]

Hahaha, we begged no one.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Lukapaka

[Auctor]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1309666465' post='2747396']
They surrendered rights, enough for our mission.
[/quote]
kind of like yall had to agree to stop hitting Nueva Vida, although they remained in the war. When do we get congratulated on our great victory?

[Mayzie]

[quote name='Lukapaka' timestamp='1309666465' post='2747396']
They surrendered rights, enough for our mission.



Hahaha, we begged no one.
[/quote]

So you did not have to drag MHA (and then FARK) into a war they wanted no part in?

[Emphix]

MHA and Fark did bail Sparta out of the war.

What would have happened if not, people can claim whatever.

I was in Sparta back then and I can say that Sparta indeed do not "beg" MHA or Fark. We were prepared to fight for months. MHA and Fark came in voluntarily with the intention to, well, bail Sparta out. They do not necessarily agree with the war, but they offered help nonetheless. Nobody have to beg for anything. There is even a nice speech afterwards from the MHA guy.

That is the truth. Feel free to continue believing whatever is convenient though.

[Tulak Hord]

[quote name='Auctor' timestamp='1309666344' post='2747392']
Interestingly enough, there's no surrender or even an admission of defeat there. Care to try again?
[/quote]

Your leader at the time and the rest of the signatories acknowledged it very differently, but we came to an agreement which led to the terms being signed after this was said:

[quote][17:18] <&Elfriede> I understand that there is some problem with the terms as they stand?
01[17:19] <@Tulak_Hord> "peace agreement with the forces of Sparta"
01[17:19] <@Tulak_Hord> That doesn't look like surrender to me
[17:19] <&Elfriede> It certainly looks like surrender from where I stand...and I assure you we are none too pleased about it
[17:20] <&Elfriede> you wish for us to further grovel at your feet?
[17:20] <&Elfriede> I don't think there is going to be any doubt in anyone's mind what went down here[/quote]

Basically, shut it and let those who were there remember it as it was, an enjoyable war with an agreeable, undeniable ending rather than distort it for your own purpose. If for whatever reason you wish to discuss the semantics further you're more than welcome to on our [url="http://www.cnsparta.com/forums/"]boards[/url] kthx

[Auctor]

Oooo, let's see what I remember.

I remember an unwarranted war of aggression on my ally that resulted in a front that was essentially a rescue operation for your alliance. I agree with the line in those logs about there being no doubt about what went down. You were tired of the war and you couldn't see it through.

Point being, your guy coming out here and talking trash about forcing a surrender of AZTEC makes yall look like a pack of fools. Sparta has very little to be proud of on that front and the more you beat your chests on it, the sillier you become. As his remarks were made in a public venue, I feel it's appropriate to respond to them in a public venue. I won't be signing up at your forums.

[FearUnited]

[quote name='Emphix' timestamp='1309669075' post='2747454']
MHA and Fark did bail Sparta out of the war.

What would have happened if not, people can claim whatever.

I was in Sparta back then and I can say that Sparta indeed do not "beg" MHA or Fark. We were prepared to fight for months. MHA and Fark came in voluntarily with the intention to, well, bail Sparta out. They do not necessarily agree with the war, but they offered help nonetheless. Nobody have to beg for anything. There is even a nice speech afterwards from the MHA guy.

That is the truth. Feel free to continue believing whatever is convenient though.
[/quote]

[color="#FF0000"]I was also in MHA back then and i can concur. I am actually a re-tired fleet commander for MHA so i can help you out. Sparta never "begged" for us to come in, nor did they "begged" Fark. We wanted to support and uphold our treaties. Thats the easiest to say. The majority of the alliance never agreed to the war, but we also couldn't see one of our closest friend fall. We know what we had to do, get in and help our ally and get out. Many alliances weren't please with our entry with Fark, but we weren't going to let our ally fall. [/color]

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='FearUnited' timestamp='1309671768' post='2747494']
[color="#FF0000"]I was also in MHA back then and i can concur. I am actually a re-tired fleet commander for MHA so i can help you out. Sparta never "begged" for us to come in, nor did they "begged" Fark. We wanted to support and uphold our treaties. Thats the easiest to say. The majority of the alliance never agreed to the war, but we also couldn't see one of our closest friend fall. We know what we had to do, get in and help our ally and get out. Many alliances weren't please with our entry with Fark, but we weren't going to let our ally fall. [/color]
[/quote]
This. Even though they didn't agree with our actions, and even though we never even asked them to do something they didn't want to do, they came in and wrapped up the war anyway because they are just that good of allies. The fact that MHA and Fark came in for us despite everything that had happened prior is a testament to their character, and the exact reason we are proud to be in a bloc with them.

The fact of that matter is, winning or losing the AZTEC front was of no concern to us. We could have gotten beat to hell from all dozen-ish alliances that were on us, but our success or failure didn't determine who won the war. All we had to do was simply be [i]in[/i] the war in order to pull that massive of a response [i]our[/i] way, rather than towards our allies. The fact that NATO/TFD were hitting us rather than hitting Umbrella, RIA, Athens, GOD, or ODN is good enough for me to justify our involvement. Some would say "so you're entire job was just to distract a huge portion of their forces and soak up damage, isn't that a meat shield?". Well, yes...yes it was. Do we care? Not really. If tanking AZTEC and all their friends for the sake of coalition was necessary for overall victory, than it sure as hell is worth it. People can say whatever they want about us, but at the end of the day, whether we were in a bad position or not, whether Fark/MHA turned a brutal assignment into an easy one, our side won. Your side lost.

When it all comes down to it, I'll take a nice bloody victory over pleasing the world every day of the week.

[Lemax]

Yeah... I still don't see where AZTEC surrendered, as previously stated.

If it takes that many large alliances to keep us out of a conflict, and you consider it a win, then thank you.

[D34th]

[quote name='Lemax' timestamp='1309673354' post='2747501']
Yeah... I still don't see where AZTEC surrendered, as previously stated.

If it takes that many large alliances to keep us out of a conflict, and you consider it a win, then thank you.
[/quote]

Man, stop trying, you're just embarrassing yourself. Everyone knows that AZTEC surrendered. Yes, there isn't the word "surrender" there but the fact stands, they lost and Sparta won, period.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1309673006' post='2747498']
This. Even though they didn't agree with our actions, and even though we never even asked them to do something they didn't want to do, they came in and wrapped up the war anyway because they are just that good of allies.[/quote]

They obviously werent too opposed to your actions or the position you placed them in because they rewarded you with a place in their bloc.

[quote]When it all comes down to it, I'll take a nice bloody victory over pleasing the world every day of the week.
[/quote]
Its not news that sparta does whatever it can to avoid being on the losing side of a war. Thats why sparta tries to treaty every corner of the treaty web. The downside is you have to abandon allies or turn on them from time to time. That will catch up with you eventually.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Alterego

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1309673006' post='2747498']
The fact that MHA and Fark came in for us despite everything that had happened prior is a testament to their character, and the exact reason we are proud to be in a bloc with them.
[/quote]

What was that?

[IYIyTh]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1309685074' post='2747565']
What was that?
[/quote]

What, are you illiterate?

[nosoup4you]

[quote name='Tulak Hord' timestamp='1309669489' post='2747460']
Your leader at the time and the rest of the signatories acknowledged it very differently, but we came to an agreement which led to the terms being signed after this was said:



Basically, shut it and let those who were there remember it as it was, an enjoyable war with an agreeable, undeniable ending rather than distort it for your own purpose. If for whatever reason you wish to discuss the semantics further you're more than welcome to on our [url="http://www.cnsparta.com/forums/"]boards[/url] kthx
[/quote]


For context, those logs were taken as Tulak was refusing to sign terms because AZTEC and co would not specifically state "surrender" in the peace agreement. He signed the agreement.

We didn't surrender to Sparta. We surrendered to your game of "my dad is bigger than your dad".

Edited July 3, 2011 by nosoup4you

[Burnsey]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1309680864' post='2747550']
Man, stop trying, you're just embarrassing yourself. [/quote]
If only you could heed your own advice sometimes.

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1309680864' post='2747550']Everyone knows that AZTEC surrendered. Yes, there isn't the word "surrender" there but the fact stands, they lost and Sparta won, period.
[/quote]
You seem to be forgetting about the fact MHA and Fark had to back them up.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Anger' timestamp='1309704912' post='2747630']
You seem to be forgetting about the fact MHA and Fark had to back them up.
[/quote]
Support is generally welcomed when you're fighting a dozen-something alliances. You guys had over 3 times our strength and somewhere in the ball park of 4 times our member count including AO and DF and you [I]still[/I] had an inferior top tier, and that was even before MHA and Fark came in. We let our mid tier get swarmed and, to be honest, destroyed because we knew our top tier was on track to drag you all down with us anyway which was all we needed to accomplish our objective. Fark/MHA, however, decided that was a stupid plan and rather watch all of us get mutually destroyed over nothing came in and mopped up early. They turned a blood bath into an easy win, and damn did it feel good to watch how fast that war ended once they got rolling.

[nosoup4you]

We're still talking about Bob? Did we war you in another world somewhere?

[Burnsey]

nvm

Edited July 3, 2011 by Anger

[Mixoux]

Hey, who the hell cares about Sparta - AZTEC? Why don't you make your own thread about it and not spew it all over this thread.

[nosoup4you]

My bad. Since it was the OP who brought it up, I figured it was his right to decide what was discussed in his thread.

But you're right...you guys continue discussing your stats and lamenting the lack of anything happening in CN. If Sparta wants to continue this further they are more than welcome to hit us up on our forums, which unfortunately are [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=103241"]down[/url] atm.