Mutual Aggression and Hate on Legion and Invicta Pact

[Melancholy Culkin]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309478191' post='2745412']
Also, I will not believe 97% of nations were in PM unless proof has been put forward.
I for one was only in PM for at most ~2 weeks then a Legion Member and I just started destroying our enemies
[/quote]

Not 97% of your nations, 97% of your NS. You had plenty of nations with less than 1k ns out of PM. It didn't help that when a few of your upper tier finally did come out, it was one nation at a time so they would get hopelessly dogpiled out of the upper tier with no support.

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

[quote name='youwish959' timestamp='1309352203' post='2744148']

4. Legion had 97% of their 200+ member alliance in peace mode
[/quote]

He said Nations, not NS..
And I still wouldn't believe 97% NS...

Edited July 1, 2011 by TheManWithoutAPlan

[SirWilliam]

And that would be denial...

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1309482018' post='2745469']
And that would be denial...
[/quote]
It wouldn't be denial, do you have proof that 97% of our aa went into peace mode all at once?
Thought you wouldn't.

[Raider]

Signing this. Add me.

[Salmia]

I normally don't post but the claims in these threads made by Legion despite the logs and the back and forth by other alliances astounds me. Legion did pull nations out of peace mode near the end, I will give you that but for the duration of the war? Legion was one of the most frustrating parts of this war. Due to Legion's refusal to hit MK along with all the other alliances prepared, this left TPF to be hit by MK. This lead to TOOL, TPF's last back up alliance at the time, having to enter against MK. This puts TOP in a tough position and of course puts IRON in a bad position. A position that TOOL wanted to avoid putting IRON in the first place. In addition, what happens the next day? TPF gets jumped by two alliances and has no back up which TOOL could have been.

Yes Legion was dogpiled by CnG but claims Legion was perfect and innocuous in this war is far from the truth. Most of it has been stated already in this thread but other alliances pulled their weight. Doing it near the end and then proudly using as an excuse that you were in PM for one month while another alliance who gave their all (NSO) and then had to leave the war after having exhausted their resources? No one can make the claim that NSO didn't give their all, they did and any assertions otherwise is false. Alliances were put in tough positions by Legion's actions and while Legion did pull it together by the end of the war, what about the other month or two when others were fighting? Thanks for the half effort.

[i]*This is all said from my viewpoint while being in TOOL for the war, this does not reflect my current AA.[/i]

[Gibsonator21]

From what I remember, when Legion [i]finally[/i] started coming out of PM, it was only one at a time. Hell, I remember seeing one sell off infra to hit a target...

[Sephiroth]

As I fought looking around at who else was on the same side fighting the same enemy as me, I saw Legion the most. So from where I was while the war was ongoing, I saw more Legion nations at war fighting than most of the alliances ridiculing them.

The claims that NSO fought more than Legion, I don't believe.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Methrage

[Banedon]

[quote name='KainIIIC' timestamp='1309473539' post='2745362']
NSO wasn't supposed to fight GOONS at first (we were to counter anyone who hit TPF initially, but when no one came..), but we did once it became clear that the group of alliances that piled onto GOONS would not be enough to clearly keep 'em back. A couple days into the fight, I ran up some fun numbers: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=98006&view=findpost&p=2619105 , and as SirWilliam pointed out, NSO had more wars than Legion despite being a fraction of its size.

I remember one Legioner telling one of our members that you didn't need to Ground Attack after you anarchied your opponent .

I also remember wondering why the coalition didn't push upwards, and instead seeing all of Legion flee into PM. We were then assured for days that Legion was "supposed to come out of PM and make a push", which never materialized. What did materialize was a push against MK spearheaded by NADC against their lower-mid tier, something which the NSO participated on (though our resources were limited by that point, as were MK nations in that upper range, heh), but absolutely no Legion because their War Council couldn't be found on IRC. NADC, by the way, has my props for being a stand-up alliance. Legion? Who the heck knew what was going on in their minds. They acted literally like a chicken with its head cut off.
[/quote]

As I said earlier, we had a goal of dragging this war out as long as we could. I didn't agree with how we were fighting the war but I'm not in the War Department. I thought the constant back and forth between war and peace was annoying and I couldn't understand why we came out in waves either. That said, for all the blame laid at our feet about when we would be coming out, we were not the only one. NPO was in PM as well, and from what I've heard no on in the coalition really seemed to know what was going on. No one was listening to each other, so one one co-ordinated. So we lost. Simple as that really.

Our lower tier was giving the GOONS a good working over since the beginning from what I could tell. I wasn't in the lower-tier and I had other things on my mind. But that was my impression, and yes since we're a lot larger then you it makes us look bad. Our upper tier was well beyond fashionably late to the party, but when we did show up we were pointed at MK and no one else. Which is why C&G got off pretty much scott free when they declared on us.

I can only speak for myself but I was fighting mostly MK the entire war. Had a few ODN as well, and two others from an alliance that I forget right now. I was not invovled with alliance co-ordination or negotiations but I agree, we didn't come out looking like we were a well-oiled machine. However we were active, fully engaged, and we stayed that way for over a month. I know the first few weeks has set the tone of these conversations but all things change.

We came out of peace mode and fought hard. Dragged DH and their friends through the mud with us for a month or more. They kept shaking AA's loose to hit us with and we kept fighting. DH, C&G, SF, TOP, maybe a few more that I forget since I'm tired. We were fighting half the world and we didn't care. We fought, we bled, we still have our Legion of adoring fans. No one can fight half the world and win. But we weren't crushed under their weight either. If you want to think we're soft, useless, and utterly pathetic at fighting that's your perrogative. I can't stop you, but do take a moment to examine the entire war, not just the beginning.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Banedon

[Melancholy Culkin]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309482179' post='2745470']
It wouldn't be denial, do you have proof that 97% of our aa went into peace mode all at once?
[/quote]

The fact that Legion is still in the sanction race is a pretty good indicator.

[Gibsonator21]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309482179' post='2745470']
It wouldn't be denial, do you have proof that 97% of our aa went into peace mode all at once?
Thought you wouldn't.

[/quote]
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoJD-FIuyoB0dGlWeUlaNDluUzZ3NXhub1ZPV1M0LVE&authkey=CMmrnf4C&hl=en_US#gid=0

That was posted a few pages back. Just under 97% of your alliances strength was in PM. Of course, now I'm going to assume you aren't going to believe these stats. Am I right?

[Stefano Palmieri]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309482179' post='2745470']
It wouldn't be denial, do you have proof that 97% of our aa went into peace mode all at once?
Thought you wouldn't.

[/quote]
Here, have some [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=670&showentry=2841"]proof.[/url]

Edited July 1, 2011 by Stefano Palmieri

[Varianz]

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1309487437' post='2745515']
As I fought looking around at who else was on the same side fighting the same enemy as me, I saw Legion the most. So from where I was while the war was ongoing, I saw more Legion nations at war fighting than most of the alliances ridiculing them.

The claims that NSO fought more than Legion, I don't believe.
[/quote]
Well folks, if that doesn't prove to you that Legion is a !@#$ alliance, I don't know what will

[Heft]

First, let's not associate Invicta with Legion. Invicta are loyal allies and reasonably competent at showing up to fight a war on time.

As for Legion, I don't think I've ever seen such a high concentration of ignorance and inanity from one alliance's posters as I have in this thread. Aside from one or two guys trying to make some sort of reasoned argument early on, it's basically just been absurd nonsense and baseless insults.

I don't have much else to add to what has already been said, other than to say that even after two months of the NSO fighting as hard as we could while watching Legion (and some others, to be fair) delay and put off a meaningful offensive to the point of rendering it useless, even after half the alliance was running on fumes, I still had every intention of holding the NSO in until the end. It wasn't until a certain decision was made by others that I finally had enough and took the exit. If I cared about the NSO's statistical well being than we could have easily exited the war weeks earlier. If you doubt our loyalty, tenacity, or our willingness to lose everything for our friends, then you're an idiot.

Sure, Legion showed up in 'force' after we left, I guess, not that it mattered much at that point. And I'm sure that many of your members are perfectly brave and willing to fight to the end. That your leaders are seemingly incapable of doing their jobs isn't necessarily the members' fault (although aren't you guys a democracy or whatever? elect someone better, maybe?). But it can't be denied that Legion was a source of difficulty, confusion, and frustration for the coalition throughout the war, and since Legion was one of the largest alliances that we had those problems were only magnified.

Basically, when you have over twice as many nations sitting in peace mode as the NSO has nations in total for weeks, then don't be surprised if people are upset with you and don't respect you very much. And insulting others certainly isn't going to help.

[Kivan]

wait wait wait....NSO left?

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

I see alot of C&G comrades on here.


Sign me up!

- Comrade Trotsky

Edited July 1, 2011 by Ayatollah Bromeini

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

[quote name='Gibsonator21' timestamp='1309487870' post='2745527']
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoJD-FIuyoB0dGlWeUlaNDluUzZ3NXhub1ZPV1M0LVE&authkey=CMmrnf4C&hl=en_US#gid=0

That was posted a few pages back. Just under 97% of your alliances strength was in PM. Of course, now I'm going to assume you aren't going to believe these stats. Am I right?
[/quote]

I would believe it, but it shows GOONS actually has NS..
So I cannot.
Full of lies

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Banedon' timestamp='1309487440' post='2745516']
As I said earlier, we had a goal of dragging this war out as long as we could. I didn't agree with how we were fighting the war but I'm not in the War Department. I thought the constant back and forth between war and peace was annoying and I couldn't understand why we came out in waves either. That said, for all the blame laid at our feet about when we would be coming out, we were not the only one. NPO was in PM as well, and from what I've heard no on in the coalition really seemed to know what was going on. No one was listening to each other, so one one co-ordinated. So we lost. Simple as that really.

Our lower tier was giving the GOONS a good working over since the beginning from what I could tell. I wasn't in the lower-tier and I had other things on my mind. But that was my impression, and yes since we're a lot larger then you it makes us look bad. Our upper tier was well beyond fashionably late to the party, but when we did show up we were pointed at MK and no one else. Which is why C&G got off pretty much scott free when they declared on us.

I can only speak for myself but I was fighting mostly MK the entire war. Had a few ODN as well, and two others from an alliance that I forget right now. I was not invovled with alliance co-ordination or negotiations but I agree, we didn't come out looking like we were a well-oiled machine. However we were active, fully engaged, and we stayed that way for over a month. I know the first few weeks has set the tone of these conversations but all things change.

We came out of peace mode and fought hard. Dragged DH and their friends through the mud with us for a month or more. They kept shaking AA's loose to hit us with and we kept fighting. DH, C&G, SF, TOP, maybe a few more that I forget since I'm tired. We were fighting half the world and we didn't care. We fought, we bled, we still have our Legion of adoring fans. No one can fight half the world and win. But we weren't crushed under their weight either. If you want to think we're soft, useless, and utterly pathetic at fighting that's your perrogative. I can't stop you, but do take a moment to examine the entire war, not just the beginning.
[/quote]
I want to appluad you sir, this is a well reasoned attempt. Take note Sabcat and TheManWithoutAPlan, because your own less than stirling efforts have only achieved dragging your alliance's name further through the mud.

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309495949' post='2745662']
I would believe it, but it shows GOONS actually has NS..
So I cannot.
Full of lies
[/quote]
SO much cring in one post , Do your alliance a favour and leave the discussion to the likes of Banedon.

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1309499381' post='2745724']
I want to appluad you sir, this is a well reasoned attempt. Take note Sabcat and TheManWithoutAPlan, because your own less than stirling efforts have only achieved dragging your alliance's name further through the mud.


SO much cring in one post , Do your alliance a favour and leave the discussion to the likes of Banedon.
[/quote]


You should do your alliance a favor and leave the discussion

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309500287' post='2745734']
You should do your alliance a favor and leave the discussion
[/quote]
More cringeworthy dribble coming from you...pathetic. If you actually gave a !@#$ about your alliance you would let the likes of Banedon do the talking.

[TheManWithoutAPlan]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1309500451' post='2745736']
More cringeworthy dribble coming from you...pathetic. If you actually gave a !@#$ about your alliance you would let the likes of Banedon do the talking.
[/quote]

OOC: Cringe isn't an adjective by the way. (and cringing is bowing, which I am not doing)

You can believe NSO is god, I will believe Legion is god.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1309500451' post='2745736']
let the likes of Banedon do the talking.
[/quote]

Shh, it's way more funny if he keeps going.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309501592' post='2745745']
OOC: Cringe isn't an adjective by the way. (and cringing is bowing, which I am not doing)

You can believe NSO is god, I will believe Legion is god.
[/quote]
Jesus now your clutching at straws...

[b]cringeworthy - (adjective) - informal causing feelings of acute embarrassment or distaste
[/b]


But OK let me rephrase it for your benefit...[u]your posts are !@#$[/u] and counter-productive to the efforts of Banedon and others who are trying to hold Legion's position up in this discussion, Banedon's reasoned approach is far superior to your substandard trolling. Is that clearer for you kind sir?

And for the record I have never said NSO is god, truth be told I am not a major fan of the Sith. Believe it or not I do have a sentimental attachment to Legion which dates back to 2006...but hey continue pissing in the wind dear boy.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1309501897' post='2745750']
Shh, it's way more funny if he keeps going.
[/quote]
But but but think of the children!

Edited July 1, 2011 by Cataduanes

[Rudolph]

[quote name='TheManWithoutAPlan' timestamp='1309501592' post='2745745']
OOC: Cringe isn't an adjective by the way. (and cringing is bowing, which I am not doing)

You can believe NSO is god, I will believe Legion is god.
[/quote]
This discussion is about [b]FACTS[/b], not belief. Get it right, mate.

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1309502634' post='2745757']
But but but think of the children!
[/quote]
Think of the entertainment D:

[Vol Navy]

The biggest fallacy in any of this is saying or thinking that it would have made one whit of difference if Legion had all came out and fought at the same time. Or if everyone on this side had all came out and fought at the same time. The DH/PB/CnG/TOP conglomeration had this one well dominated before the first shot was fired. Otherwise it would have never been fired at all.

As it is it was a protracted guerrilla type war. GOONs was wiped out from a NS perspective essentially from top to bottom, pretty much pounded into dust. MK's bottom 100 or so nations were beaten pretty badly to the point of wide spread PM, turtling if they couldn't get to PM and quite a few deletions.

That's really about all we were capable of from a coalition stand point. 2 of the 3 initial aggressors took beatings that were likely far worse than they initially thought they would have to face. We were extremely overmatched in the upper tier as this side has never been able to recover the tech that was lost over the past 3-4 wars in comparison to the alliances who have mostly avoided major war losses or gotten massive tech reparations over the past 2+ years.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Vol Navy