Mutual Aggression and Hate on Legion and Invicta Pact

[2burnt2eat]

Oh the gems in this thread.

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309228714' post='2743130']
What RV did doesn't make you traitors. What makes you traitors is that you supported him after he did it. And all to save 200 million, which amounts to a little less than 67 slots. Not only did you condone what RV did, you condone doing it to save money.
[/quote]

I'm so sorry that we're traitors solely because we had an opinion you don't like.

NSO has always been vocal about who it doesn't like.

I wonder why we don't like you.

You know, unlike you, we fight our wars. Against tough odds too with little support. I wouldn't mind shaving off a bit of cash off the reps at your expense. After all, posts like these show that we clearly made the right decision.

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309225238' post='2743088']
The only reason we didn't fight longer than NSO was because we didn't have the leader of our alliance agree to change sides and attack his allies. RV put you guys right in the same category as TOP with that stunt. Complain about C&G/PB/DH for several months, attack them, get your butts handed to you, and then become their bestest buddies. How long do you think it's going to be before you're signing with the Shrooms, TLr, or another of the "We not the New Hegemony" Hegemony?
[/quote]

Considering your history, this is particularly ironic for you to be telling us this.

[Fallen Fool]

Do y'all seriously have nothing better to do with your time?

[Dr Beefstupid]

Wow, nice topic. Wish I saw this earlier.

I think Sardonic would kill me if I were to sign this document.








Add me.

[Dagrr]

[quote name='The Pansy' timestamp='1309240566' post='2743269']
With 70 members being 20% of the alliances total membership, yes, you bet I think they lost a good chunk of NS through it.
I'd be interested in looking through Legion target lists to see who is still with us.
[/quote]

Lets say you're right and the majority of Legions losses came from deletions.

January 25
Legion NS- 9.17 million
Legion members- 349

March 7- The last day UE posted alliance stats
Legion NS 6.85 million
Legion members- 291

That accounts for 58 out of 70 of the deletions. Legion lost 2.32 million in that time frame. Assuming Legion did zero fighting, those 58 nations carried with them 40,000 NS on average. Legion's average NS at the start of the war was roughly 26,000. Your assumption depends on the average deletion being 65% larger in NS than their average member. But you know what, I'll keep going. Lets assume that remaining 12 deletions were also 40k NS on average. There's another 480k NS. We're up to 2.78 million. Going with your hypothesis, Legion still lost 2.59 million due to war losses. Thats more than any alliance on our side in total NS loss besides NPO and NADC, which also had plenty of deletions. Incidentally, its also more than any of the non-doomhouse members on our front.

I think I'll pass on the alf kool aid myself.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Henry

[slingersam]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1309243896' post='2743303']
Lets say you're right and the majority of Legions losses came from deletions.

January 25
Legion NS- 9.17 million
Legion members- 349

March 7- The last day UE posted alliance stats
Legion NS 6.85 million
Legion members- 291

That accounts for 58 out of 70 of the deletions. Legion lost 2.32 million in that time frame. Assuming Legion did zero fighting, those 58 nations carried with them 40,000 NS on average. Legion's average NS at the start of the war was roughly 26,000. Your assumption depends on the average deletion being 65% larger in NS than their average member. But you know what, I'll keep going. Lets assume that remaining 12 deletions were also 40k NS on average. There's another 480k NS. We're up to 2.78 million. Going with your hypothesis, Legion still lost 2.59 million due to war losses. Thats more than any alliance on our side in total NS loss besides NPO and NADC, which also had plenty of deletions. Incidentally, its also more than any of the non-doomhouse members on our front.

I think I'll pass on the alf kool aid myself.
[/quote]
Henry I think people want to hate on the Legion just because they can. They will hate on the legion because they do have a large alliance backing them up. And yet when someone posts actual facts that heavily contradict most of the false statements these guys say, they ignore it and continue on their rant. BTW GO HENRY, heres a legionair cheering for a dear ally

Edited June 28, 2011 by slingersam

[Stefano Palmieri]

[quote name='slingersam' timestamp='1309247571' post='2743330']
Henry I think people want to hate on the Legion just because they can. They will hate on the legion because they do have a large alliance backing them up. And yet when someone posts actual facts that heavily contradict most of the false statements these guys say, they ignore it and continue on their rant. BTW GO HENRY, heres a legionair cheering for a dear ally
[/quote]
Fairly certain I was hating you before I was in a large alliance. Also if you think the Legion has such a fabulous military go right ahead and prove all of us wrong. As for "false statements" you guys having a poor military is a well known fact, so until you can prove us wrong you'll just have to live with that. (Also it will be pretty much assured you guys wont have even attempted to change your military such as MCXA is doing).

Edited June 28, 2011 by Stefano Palmieri

[LeonidasRexII]

[quote name='Stefano Palmieri' timestamp='1309252554' post='2743350']
Fairly certain I was hating you before I was in a large alliance. Also if you think the Legion has such a fabulous military go right ahead and prove all of us wrong. As for "false statements" you guys having a poor military is a well known fact, so until you can prove us wrong you'll just have to live with that. (Also it will be pretty much assured you guys wont have even attempted to change your military such as MCXA is doing).
[/quote]

The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Even so there have been several points made using evidence that refute the haters claim of Legion futility, and yet all that you have to bring to the table is the basic, "Legion Sucks" line. Why don't you break with tradition and give us some evidence instead of the old party line.

[The Pansy]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1309243896' post='2743303']
Lets say you're right and the majority of Legions losses came from deletions.

January 25
Legion NS- 9.17 million
Legion members- 349

March 7- The last day UE posted alliance stats
Legion NS 6.85 million
Legion members- 291

That accounts for 58 out of 70 of the deletions. Legion lost 2.32 million in that time frame. Assuming Legion did zero fighting, those 58 nations carried with them 40,000 NS on average. Legion's average NS at the start of the war was roughly 26,000. Your assumption depends on the average deletion being 65% larger in NS than their average member. But you know what, I'll keep going. Lets assume that remaining 12 deletions were also 40k NS on average. There's another 480k NS. We're up to 2.78 million. Going with your hypothesis, Legion still lost 2.59 million due to war losses. Thats more than any alliance on our side in total NS loss besides NPO and NADC, which also had plenty of deletions. Incidentally, its also more than any of the non-doomhouse members on our front.

I think I'll pass on the alf kool aid myself.
[/quote]
I never preached they didn't fight, and I said a good chunk of losses could be attributed to people leaving the realm.
I got hold of 38 spy reports, 8 of which have left the Legion in some way now, mostly the world.
Which holds up to the 20%
Between the dates you cited in an earlier post, Jan-March 26th I believe. 70 members left the alliance in some way (Alliance Member count taken from the Sanction Race Thread)of which the Av NS was 33k approx(taken from the av of the cross section of spy reports I had available),
70 @ av of 33k = 2.3m NS

So yes, a sizeable chunk, as I said in my post.

Edited June 28, 2011 by The Pansy

[Stefano Palmieri]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309253605' post='2743354']
The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Even so there have been several points made using evidence that refute the haters claim of Legion futility, and yet all that you have to bring to the table is the basic, "Legion Sucks" line. Why don't you break with tradition and give us some evidence instead of the old party line.
[/quote]
So people who fought against or with you saying, from recent experience, that you're woeful fighters on top of stats shown from the war isn't proof enough?

[slingersam]

[quote name='Stefano Palmieri' timestamp='1309255743' post='2743358']
So people who fought against or with you saying, from recent experience, that you're woeful fighters on top of stats shown from the war isn't proof enough?
[/quote]

Your evidence comes from an alliance that ended up back stabbing us no matter how they twist it. And then wonder why we didnt cover their ass. Lol, what can I say people will find anything if they want to hate someone. Oh the white guy said the phrase "N-word" he must be opressing black people, lets openly hate him

[Jgoods45]

Holy crap, calm down people. Never meant for this to turn into some huge thread.

At the end of the day, it's all good. No need to dwell on the past.

Although there are some things I will never forget or forgive, this isn't one of them.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='slingersam' timestamp='1309257081' post='2743360']
Your evidence comes from an alliance that ended up back stabbing us no matter how they twist it. And then wonder why we didnt cover their ass. Lol, what can I say people will find anything if they want to hate someone. Oh the white guy said the phrase "N-word" he must be opressing black people, lets openly hate him
[/quote]

No offence, but your actually harming your alliances image even more. As hard as that could be, you're actually doing a pretty good job. You should stop posting because pretty much 100% of what you say is complete nonsensical garbage.

[Azaghul]

Legion did eventually have a decent number of large tier people come out of peace, but in a piecemeal fashion late in the war and most of those nations didn't fight back much at all. In other words they didn't do much when then they could have helped make some difference and when they did come out, they did very little to help their allies because it was so ineffective.

[quote name='Varianz' timestamp='1309228317' post='2743127']
He's mad because Legion probably [i]couldn't [/i]handle RV's 6k nation.
[/quote]
Near the middle and end of the war you very rarely could find a Legion nation in that range in war mode.

[Kalasin]

Legion and Invicta aren't dicks exactly, whether or not they are good alliances there's no real need to hate them. *shrug*

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='FearUnited' timestamp='1309233953' post='2743172']
I've been reading the whole time and a lot of personnal experiences i see. I just wanna know what war because im a bit slow at thinking, i apologize. This is all due to my complex migraines so i need help remembering what war.
[/quote]

The DH-NPO War is what's being mostly referenced.

[Lord of the Dance]

[quote name='slingersam' timestamp='1309257081' post='2743360']
Your evidence comes from an alliance that ended up back stabbing us no matter how they twist it. And then wonder why we didnt cover their ass. Lol, what can I say people will find anything if they want to hate someone. Oh the white guy said the phrase "N-word" he must be opressing black people, lets openly hate him
[/quote]

Whoa whoa whoa Sam. Whilst I appreciate your candor I think we should keep a lid on Legion's pro-racism/use of racial slur policy. It perhaps can wait for another thread.

[chefjoe]

[quote name='LeonidasRexII' timestamp='1309253605' post='2743354']
"Legion Sucks" line. Why don't you break with tradition and give us some evidence instead of the old party line.
[/quote]

When the same old party line actually tells the truth of YEARS of legions idiocy and general incompetence there is no need to change.....sometimes the oldest traditions carry the most immutable of truths at their core

[Domingo the Honored]

I can't say I'm not biased, because as a member of the Legion I am. I'm not big in the world affairs as I'm not even 8 months into my Cyber Nations career (and how I wish I had been here for stuff like the GW's, Karma, and Bi-Polar!)... but from simple observations and a sense of what's going on, I believe we pulled our weight just like everybody else.

Most of the complaints are against our large amount of Peace Mode nations, which didn't even apply for the entire war. We pulled our top and high middle men out of their slumber in the middle to late part of the war, and believe me, they were itching to get in there much earlier.

I submit mojo882 of Kolsara, our largest nation pre-war ("Paper Tiger 001", lol), hit down tens of thousands of NS. I submit our Imperators, Watcher of Gambrin and totem of Ciumdeii. Both hit hard by nations of all our enemy alliances... and these were not the only three. Many, many others rushed into the fight, just later than we had previously expected, and certainly later than many, which I admit. However, we did fight with our higher tier, and we fought hard, whether you choose to recognize it or not. Still, even without them, most of our 15k and below NS nations fought for much of the war.

These nations may not be gigantic, alliance leaders, or even internationally recognized by name, but they are important. They sway the tide of war, simply because they fight so much, are of such great number, and are never saved for later or PMed out. I was one of them, 7k NS turned to mush of only a few hundred throughout the conflict, during which I fought over a dozen offensive and defensive wars of varied success. The Legion nations of similar nation strength put in as much effort as they could, and cannot be ignored.

If an alliance has its lower tier fight through most of a war, and its mid to high tier fight through much or some, I believe that to be pulling its weight. That's just me. It pains me to see alliances on our side, or even the other side speaking so badly of us when we did nothing wrong, nothing unorthodox or never seen before, nothing cowardly or stupid. What ever happened to mutual respect? I fight my enemy, but I also respect him, I remember his name. He is there fighting for his side and his cause as I am mine, and to see him in battle is enough to convince me that his alliance is trying.

Oh, also, welcome me to the forums!

Edited June 28, 2011 by Domingo the Honored

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Domingo the Honored' timestamp='1309269358' post='2743415']
Paragraphs are your friend, big blocks of words are not.
[/quote]

I'm basing my opinion of what the folks on your side of the web claim, My experiences fighting your terrible alliance, over the last 2 years. You claim you pulled your weight, this is just not true. The nations that did fight or were in war mode did not put up a fight in the slightest, you arrived late, you sat back and watched your allies be decimated and put up very little effort into stopping this or lightening the load.

You can sit there and comment about how much effort you put in, but judging from the extensive replies to this topic many don't believe that to be the case.

If you had put effort in then you wouldn't be paying 2.4 billion in reps.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='stockhunter' timestamp='1309153493' post='2742533']
Look kids...... trolls! What is a troll you ask? Well a troll is someone who lives in their relative's basement (usually mom's, but sometimes g-ma's basement) who doesn't have a life. In order to keep from getting bored they like to go online and cause trouble for normal people who have lives. The funniest part is all they wind up doing is looking like fools and everyone winds up with a good laugh so I guess you could say they're a modern version of a jester, except uglier and without any rational thought what so ever.
[/quote]

Someone sounds a little upset.

[Lord of the Dance]

[quote name='Domingo the Honored' timestamp='1309269358' post='2743415']
My god this made my eyeballs bleed
[/quote]

I suspect the point that the enemies of legion would make was that despite your dedicated warring to almost 31,100 offensive casualties (and trust me that is a [i]massive[/i] number, indicative of over a dozen nations warred against at 7k nation strength) that not enough doughty legionnaires were supporting you in your hour of such a dedicated, effective strategy on your part.

[Domingo the Honored]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1309271110' post='2743427']
I'm basing my opinion of what the folks on your side of the web claim, My experiences fighting your terrible alliance, over the last 2 years. You claim you pulled your weight, this is just not true. The nations that did fight or were in war mode did not put up a fight in the slightest, you arrived late, you sat back and watched your allies be decimated and put up very little effort into stopping this or lightening the load.

You can sit there and comment about how much effort you put in, but judging from the extensive replies to this topic many don't believe that to be the case.

If you had put effort in then you wouldn't be paying 2.4 billion in reps.
[/quote]

Quite right, I just edited my post and put some basic separation to make it easier to read, sorry.

As to your statement, I contend that many of the people who agree with you in this thread are our previous enemies who harbor prejudice and incorrect beliefs about us, so they cannot be used to say we didn't do what we needed to when we know we did. The war mode nations fought hard. I did, my many friends and comrades did. Sorry we didn't meet your apparent expectations, but we, the Legion nations in war mode, did what we could.

I also contend that we didn't declare and immediately attack the same enemies as our allies did, so no, we didn't rush in to the exact same combat situation as you. If you were expecting us to come declare just like you did to add some fuel to your fire, you were mistaken. Still, we experienced little coordination from our allies, which is not our fault, and fought the way we wanted to under no mutual plans with you guys. We may not have fought all of your enemies straight off the bat, but we fought our own very much and that deserves some merit. Besides, we got in against MK and friends later on... perhaps too late for your liking, but better late than never.

The 2.4b in reps is just a big middle finger to us because somehow we've become the unfounded epicenter of their hatred and prejudice. Reps would be unavoidable anyway knowing the prior war history of some of our enemies, that amount has no reflection on anything other than us losing... and you know even if NPO and us had worked EXACTLY in unison, in perfect planning and coordination, we probably still would have lost, right? The Legion is not the stick that broke the camel's back.

EDIT: @LordoftheDance: What do you expect? 4/5 wars at 7k will produce some casualties, then 7/8 at 500-1k will only make a few more. You didn't read the post at all, if you had you'd have seen that I was knocked down to lower NS, where very few casualties are inflicted in number even if many wars are fought.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Domingo the Honored

[Lord of the Dance]

But Legionnaire, you said you warred hard. That just makes it sound like you warred in a limp fashion, unbecoming for a member of the mighty Legion. To be knocked down so rapidly.









You should have stayed in peace mode with everyone else.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Lord of the Dance

[chefjoe]

All well and good but even your ALLIES in the war were unhappy with you and said you sucked.
..ALLIES

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Domingo the Honored' timestamp='1309272071' post='2743434']
Quite right, I just edited my post and put some basic separation to make it easier to read, sorry.

As to your statement, I contend that many of the people who agree with you in this thread are our previous enemies who harbor prejudice and incorrect beliefs about us, so they cannot be used to say we didn't do what we needed to when we know we did. The war mode nations fought hard. I did, my many friends and comrades did. Sorry we didn't meet your apparent expectations, but we, the Legion nations in war mode, did what we could.

I also contend that we didn't declare and immediately attack the same enemies as our allies did, so no, we didn't rush in to the exact same combat situation as you. If you were expecting us to come declare just like you did to add some fuel to your fire, you were mistaken. Still, we experienced little coordination from our allies, which is not our fault, and fought the way we wanted to under no mutual plans with you guys. We may not have fought all of your enemies straight off the bat, but we fought our own very much and that deserves some merit. Besides, we got in against MK and friends later on... perhaps too late for your liking, but better late than never.

The 2.4b in reps is just a big middle finger to us because somehow we've become the unfounded epicenter of their hatred and prejudice. Reps would be unavoidable anyway knowing the prior war history of some of our enemies, that amount has no reflection on anything other than us losing... and you know even if NPO and us had worked EXACTLY in unison, in perfect planning and coordination, we probably still would have lost, right? The Legion is not the stick that broke the camel's back.

EDIT: @LordoftheDance: What do you expect? 4/5 wars at 7k will produce some casualties, then 7/8 at 500-1k will only make a few more. You didn't read the post at all, if you had you'd have seen that I was knocked down to lower NS, where very few casualties are inflicted in number even if many wars are fought.
[/quote]


Thanks for breaking your post up to make it read easier.

I harboured no prejudice when I first fought you 2 years ago, You were merely a target I was given to fight (you as in your AA) My disgust comes from the fact that every Legion nation I fought was terrible, they launched cm attacks only and had plenty money. when I say launched CM's I had 3 launched against me from maybe 15 wars. Enough of history and on to more recent events. Again I harboured some degree of disgust for you this time due to the past, presently in this war your guys fought horrible again, my opponents from legion done NOTHING, not even a CM.

Now had you declared on GOONS ( I mean actually fought) then I would not be so disgusted with Legion. Instead your alliance chose to declare then sit and hide, this is not doing your part to help your allies, it is a smack in there face and quite insulting I bet.

the 2.4 billion was not a middle finger in the sense you think, more a case of you were told straight and plain, bring your nations out to fight and no reps shall incur. You chose the cowards way and kept your top tier in peacemode. (for the most part) you were charged reps because of this and you thought you could dog pile us 12v1 without retribution. I'm not arguing against the use or for the use of 12v1 tactics, but I do realise that for they kind of tactics harsh penalties usually arise when it doesn't go your way.

Also this we would of lost anyway doesn't cut it with me and by some of the responses from your allies of allies, it doesn't wash with them either. You DoW us, you then should fight us, not hide. You allowed us to concentrate on your allies of allies, we inflicted way more damage than we should have been allowed to get on them due to the fact we didn't really have to content with you (hiding in peacemode an all)

You let not only yourself down as an alliance, but you let other alliances down on your side of the web.