Thriller

[Caliph]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303255243' post='2693991']
The leadership of Pacifica does not hide in peace mode, they are always the first to the front line. Please kindly refrain from telling outright lies, and comparing Pacifica to these cowards.
[/quote]
NPO's leadership is not, but a large portion of NPO and NPO's coalition are and have been for the duration of the war.

I would hope that Batallion and Teddy take notes and decide to come out of peace mode and help their alliance militarily and financially.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1303255439' post='2693993']
Oh I know, but I've just seen that being used to justify attacking. "You got more numbers! Come on fight back!"
[/quote]
Right, but what is more telling is that Acti hasn't fought back, no counter decs by Acti onto Thriller. They should be organising a defense of their alliance, not sitting there and allowing themselves to be essentially raided for free. Numbers don't win a war, but they certainly help, and given Acti's side their number advantage should make this an even fight, if they have sufficient warchests.

Strait up one on one's are something I can't really fault, especially when the sides are so evenly matched on paper.

[Bob Janova]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1303255225' post='2693990']
A larger alliance should have the members and warchests sufficient to beat down a smaller alliance, even one which has one third of the members as the larger one.
[/quote]
Except that if that was the case, these people would never have attacked. They knew that AcTi was an easy target and they would be rolled over easily. The fact that they have less NS than AcTi is irrelevant, because they knew that AcTi's NS was mostly empty and ill-prepared and this group of organised rogues is active, prepared and experienced.

[Iotupa]

[quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1303231293' post='2693651']
I hope this isn't a sign that many in Thriller plan on quitting CN altogether once they are done with AcTi.
[/quote]

I hope it is. The world would be better off without the people involved with this.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1303255539' post='2693997']
NPO's leadership is not, but a large portion of NPO and NPO's coalition are and have been for the duration of the war.

I would hope that Batallion and Teddy take notes and decide to come out of peace mode and help their alliance militarily and financially.
[/quote]
We also don't have a numerical advantage. There is no parallel here, we have many reasons for the state of our coalition, the only thing Bat's got is a high level of pure cowardice.

[Sarmatian Empire]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1303255703' post='2693999']
Right, but what is more telling is that Acti hasn't fought back, no counter decs by Acti onto Thriller. They should be organising a defense of their alliance, not sitting there and allowing themselves to be essentially raided for free. Numbers don't win a war, but they certainly help, and given Acti's side their number advantage should make this an even fight, if they have sufficient warchests.

Strait up one on one's are something I can't really fault, especially when the sides are so evenly matched on paper.
[/quote]

No surprise they havent fought back, no one expected them too. I'm not saying AcTi hasnt $%&@ed up, they have, but these rogues went in knowing this was going to happen. They went in, knowing a flaw, and then say the alliance should be doing what they are flawed in.

Just to note, I'm not coming out against this, because I'd be a massive hypocrite considering me and 3 others wrecked the mafia last year, I'm just playing devils advocate.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1303255739' post='2694000']
Except that if that was the case, these people would never have attacked. They knew that AcTi was an easy target and they would be rolled over easily. The fact that they have less NS than AcTi is irrelevant, because they knew that AcTi's NS was mostly empty and ill-prepared and this group of organised rogues is active, prepared and experienced.
[/quote]
All the more reason for Acti to learn this hard lesson. Shape up, get prepared, so that this cannot happen again. If it does, they should be in the opportunity to hit back just as hard.

This should be an even fight if we just compare stats. If 2 relatively unconnected alliances get together and want a shindig, and they are comparably sized, I don't see it as that big a deal. Its a bigger deal when you have involved connected alliances who have friends, treaty partners, and the like, who can easily escalate the situation to an unacceptable level. But this is not the case here, there will be no white knight as New Polar Orders lacks the strength to play moral police at this point in time, and I just don't see anyone butting into this situation militarily due to most who could do something are currently in a war, or recovering from one.

Also, what does the fact that Acti is an "easy" target have to do with anything? Should we only attack "hard" targets in war? Thats not how VE rolls, VE rolled Polar with a good sized coalition, and that could hardly be considered a "hard" target.

[Caliph]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1303255958' post='2694003']
We also don't have a numerical advantage. There is no parallel here, we have many reasons for the state of our coalition, the only thing Bat's got is a high level of pure cowardice.
[/quote]
My comparisons were only as far as denouncing the use of peace mode in those instances as a cowards tactic, while recognizing the legitimacy of peace mode in certain situations, like cycling in and out of war, not using it to hide from it. Peace mode can be legitly used to cycle in and out of war, but it is cowardly to use it to hide from a war to protect your stats. That is all I was trying to say, apologies if it came out otherwise.

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1303256041' post='2694004']
No surprise they havent fought back, no one expected them too. I'm not saying AcTi hasnt $%&@ed up, they have, but these rogues went in knowing this was going to happen. They went in, knowing a flaw, and then say the alliance should be doing what they are flawed in.

Just to note, I'm not coming out against this, because I'd be a massive hypocrite considering me and 3 others wrecked the mafia last year, I'm just playing devils advocate.
[/quote]
Well, like I told Bob Janova, how else are they going to learn the hard lesson? I would hope this provides the necessary kick in the pants to get Acti to get their act together. At the very least this should help Acti knuckle up, pull together, and get through this. Acti will not be destroyed, there is no perma war, there is an end date to the war and a light at the end of the tunnel.

And my bottom line is both alliances are not well connected, so this war does not involve many alliances, nor has the potential to. I say let them have their 1 on 1 scrap as it doesn't affect most of the other alliances. I'm not a fan of world police movements, ce la vie. Let them do their thing as it doesn't affect me or mine.

But this is just my opinion, not reflecting on Umbrella or any other entities official position on anything.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Caliph

[wickedj]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1303256164' post='2694006']
All the more reason for Acti to learn this hard lesson. Shape up, get prepared, so that this cannot happen again. If it does, they should be in the opportunity to hit back just as hard.

This should be an even fight if we just compare stats. If 2 relatively unconnected alliances get together and want a shindig, and they are comparably sized, I don't see it as that big a deal. Its a bigger deal when you have involved connected alliances who have friends, treaty partners, and the like, who can easily escalate the situation to an unacceptable level. But this is not the case here, there will be no white knight as [b]New Polar Orders lacks the strength to play moral police at this point in time[/b], and I just don't see anyone butting into this situation militarily due to most who could do something are currently in a war, or recovering from one.

Also, what does the fact that Acti is an "easy" target have to do with anything? Should we only attack "hard" targets in war? Thats not how VE rolls, VE rolled Polar with a good sized coalition, and that could hardly be considered a "hard" target.
[/quote]
You'd be surprised how butthurt they are.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1303255439' post='2693993']
Oh I know, but I've just seen that being used to justify attacking. "You got more numbers! Come on fight back!"
[/quote]

The funny thing is, is that the attackers know and have known for a while that AcTi don't have the numbers to fight back. They have enough nations but the nations lack any substantial warchests to fund a war for longer than one round.

It's like AcTi is the small nerdy kid puffing himself up and telling everybody he knows karate and Thriller are the bullies. Upon hearing about AcTi's mad "karate" skills they decide to challenge AcTi to a fight and chant "Come on, show us your karate moves!" while playing keepaway with his lunchbox. All the while they know perfectly well that AcTi doesn't know a damn thing about karate and was only trying to impress the other kids and scare off the bigger kids.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse

[ChesterStevensDevonn]

[quote name='Quinoa Rex' timestamp='1303234382' post='2693701']
You can stop caring about everything in the world, but going back on your word in this way is still despicable. Throwing your friends' trust and respect to the wind is still vile.

I don't really care much about you guys roguing on AcTi -- I mean, how much room do I have to talk? -- but screwing Athens over in the process is absolutely disgusting. Shall we call you TSO now?
[/quote]

I guess the rest of athens isn't their friends then.

Also, I don't truly believe Mk really cares for Athens, you just accepted them because they begged you to give back a treaty and mk didn't want to look bad by not giving it because of your so called friendship. Maybe you just love rsox and the new way athens is run by him now that mk has changed aswell. I don't think you have room to talk.

I don't think he trowing away the trust, however I do think hes throwing away the respect.

BUT IT IS MEANT TO BE VILE AND CRUEL

maybe they wanted you to react this way if mk can't handle it nobody can right?

[Caliph]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1303256718' post='2694010']
The funny thing is, is that the attackers know and have known for a while that AcTi don't have the numbers to fight back. They have enough nations but the nations lack any substantial warchests to fund a war for longer than one round.

It's like AcTi is the small nerdy kid puffing himself up and telling everybody he knows karate and Thriller are the bullies. Upon hearing about AcTi's mad "karate" skills they decide to challenge AcTi to a fight and chant "Come on, show us your karate moves!" while playing keepaway with his lunchbox. All the while they know perfectly well that AcTi doesn't know a damn thing about karate and was only trying to impress the other kids and scare off the bigger kids.
[/quote]
I think its time to invest in some Karate lessons then.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1303256849' post='2694012']
I think its time to invest in some Karate lessons then.
[/quote]

I bet they would if they had the money and didn't keep spending it on candy. It's their own fault to a certain extent that their nations are so terrible and their leader is a loudmouth, but they're stupid and don't know better. Thriller should.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Caliph]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1303256894' post='2694013']
I bet they would if they had the money and didn't keep spending it on candy. It's their own fault to a certain extent that their nations are so terrible and their leader is a loudmouth, but they're stupid and don't know better. Thriller should.
[/quote]
That can hardly be the fault of Thriller though.

Edit to your edit:

Regardless of what Thrillers leaders are or aren't, the war is going on. Now Acti has a few choices. Whining about it is not helping anyone. Pansy has stated Thriller is open for diplomatic contact from Acti. And at the end of the day this war has an expiration date.

Edited April 19, 2011 by Caliph

[Iotupa]

[quote name='KahlanRahl' timestamp='1303254666' post='2693980']
[center][img]http://i482.photobucket.com/albums/rr189/michaelvonprussia/tioprop/deptbanners/ICExtl.png[/img][/center]

Given the amount of misunderstanding and lack of reading comprehension going on related to Dave's declaration of tech raiding protection, we're going to make this crystal clear and official for you folks. This is simply a tech raiding protection statement. It is nothing more than that. We are not committing any resources to defend Thriller in the event of a declaration of war, official or unofficial. In the unlikely chance they get tech raided, we will discuss our options with them and possibly send those willing to defend them out to counter the raiders.



So. There's no big hand in Thriller's actions on the part of The Imperial Order. Sorry tinfoil hats. If you have any questions as to the clarity of this statement, you may take it up with us.


[img]http://b.imagehost.org/0297/highcom2.png[/img]
Dave93 Super Kame Guru
--
[img]http://b.imagehost.org/0651/comtio2.png[/img]
Executive Imperial Commander:
Imperial Internal Commander: Scorponok
Imperial External Commander: Scipio Africanus
--
[img]http://b.imagehost.org/0642/impoff.png[/img]
Imperial Officer of Foreign Affairs: KahlanRahl
Imperial Officer of Internal Affairs: CaoPai
Imperial Officer of Defence: Stagger_Lee
Imperial Officer of Finance: Blackrose
Imperial Officer of Membership Affairs: Dark_Temptation
Imperial Officer of Media Affairs: Bobogoobo
[/quote]

No matter how many pretty words you dress it up in, TIO is supporting and condoning this unjustified attack on a defenseless alliance.

You are just as guilty as Thriller.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1303256718' post='2694010']
The funny thing is, is that the attackers know and have known for a while that AcTi don't have the numbers to fight back. They have enough nations but the nations lack any substantial warchests to fund a war for longer than one round.

It's like AcTi is the small nerdy kid puffing himself up and telling everybody he knows karate and Thriller are the bullies. Upon hearing about AcTi's mad "karate" skills they decide to challenge AcTi to a fight and chant "Come on, show us your karate moves!" while playing keepaway with his lunchbox. All the while they know perfectly well that AcTi doesn't know a damn thing about karate and was only trying to impress the other kids and scare off the bigger kids.
[/quote]
Kinda like stacking six alliances on one, eh?

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1303257337' post='2694020']
That can hardly be the fault of Thriller though.
[/quote]

I'm not saying it is. What I'm saying is that Thriller knew that AcTi weren't in a fit state to fight a war but are declaring rather loudly that this isn't the case because of "numbers". They're exaggerating the potential of these 45 nations because they know that when people see 17 vs. 45 everyone will assume that the alliance with the most members has the upperhand before looking at the actual statistics behind each group. It would appear that they were also aware of AcTi warchests before declaring so they knew they had the advantage despite having fewer nations to fight with. They're just focusing on giving us misleading figures to give off the impression that AcTi has the upper hand.

I don't have a moral issue with this by the way, I'm quite happy for people to declare on other people for whatever reason, but if you're going to do that, pick a target that's capable of putting up a fight. Watching other people shoot fish in a barrel can only be entertaining for so long.

inb4: "but you can't talk, NPO weren't able to put up a fight for they are like a helpless puppy without legs or teeth"

Edited April 20, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse

[Cao Pai]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1303257716' post='2694023']
No matter how many pretty words you dress it up in, TIO is supporting and condoning this unjustified attack on a defenseless alliance.

You are just as guilty as Thriller.
[/quote]


How are they defenseless? They have more nations, more nation strength and more nukes than Thriller. TIO has in no way aided their attempts in fighting their war with AcTi. We are simply protecting them from any tech raiders. If any alliance wants to declare war on Thriller for a reason other than to tech raid them, so be it. I have never seen a time where defending people from a tech raid was a bad thing. Get off your high horse.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1303257716' post='2694023']
No matter how many pretty words you dress it up in, TIO is supporting and condoning this unjustified attack on a defenseless alliance.

You are just as guilty as Thriller.
[/quote]
Not really, no. See, TIO will protect Thriller from tech raiders.

Now if someone wants to "do something" about the Thriller/Acti war, TIO has explicitly stated they will not protect Thriller.

So by all means, attack Thriller if you feel you must for this, TIO will not get involved as explicitly, clearly, and succinctly stated by Kahlan Rahl.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

Okay this numbers game is retarded. Seriously yes yes Acti should be better off but seriously don't play the we are weaker part. You have an entirely active member base of high NS nations. A larger numerical equivalent of this situation would be Umbrella vs. GPA. GPA has more nations and more NS and ON PAPER looks like it should be able to beat Umbrella but we all know that Umbrella would beat them soundly. Same scenario here just on a much smaller basis.

Edit: that being said I have no problem with the attacks just the pitying oh we're smaller they should be able to fight back arguments.

Edited April 20, 2011 by The Corrupt Teacher

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1303257766' post='2694026']
Kinda like stacking six alliances on one, eh?
[/quote]

Except we both know karate and we goto a different school across town.

[Caliph]

[quote name='Johnny Apocalypse' timestamp='1303257942' post='2694027']
I'm not saying it is. What I'm saying is that Thriller knew that AcTi weren't in a fit state to fight a war but are declaring rather loudly that this isn't the case because of "numbers". They're exaggerating the potential of these 45 nations because they know that when people see 17 vs. 45 everyone will assume that the alliance with the most members has the upperhand before looking at the actual statistics behind each group. It would appear that they were also aware of AcTi warchests before declaring so they knew they had the advantage despite having fewer nations to fight with. They're just focusing on giving us misleading figures to give off the impression that AcTi has the upper hand.

I don't have a moral issue with this by the way, I'm quite happy for people to declare on other people for whatever reason, but if you're going to do that, pick a target that's capable of putting up a fight. Watching other people shoot fish in a barrel can only be entertaining for so long.

inb4: "but you can't talk, NPO weren't able to put up a fight for they are like a helpless puppy without legs or teeth"
[/quote]
lol, check my war screen bro, I'm fighting an NPO right now after getting most of my infra blown away and half my tech.

Acti was picked for whatever reason, I dunno, they don't come to me and ask my permission before they do things, but I bet it was to have some fun. Sure Acti was no threat, nor was Acti positioning itself to get involved against current combatants or their allies like NPO was. But Acti vs Thriller should be interesting, and at the very least serve a wakeup call to get them to get their act together.

I have no moral issue with this either, simply because it is a 1 on 1 with comparavely sized alliances with similar strength levels, and it was an up declare, meaning the smaller alliance declared on a bigger one. Acti needs to do what GOONS did and roll the smaller alliances hitting them, or at the very least suck it up and stop whining because this war has an end date pre set by Thriller, they have no intentions of making this a long drawn out affair.

[abdur]

Good luck AcTi.
TIO, I am Disappoint.

[Londo Mollari]

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' timestamp='1303255797' post='2694001']
I hope it is. The world would be better off without the people involved with this.
[/quote]

Such gratitude for someone who got you off GGA's PZI list.

Given your history, I find this position ironic, to say the least.

[Caliph]

[quote name='The Corrupt Teacher' timestamp='1303258166' post='2694035']
Okay this numbers game is retarded. Seriously yes yes Acti should be better off but seriously don't play the we are weaker part. You have an entirely active member base of high NS nations. A larger numerical equivalent of this situation would be Umbrella vs. GPA. GPA has more nations and more NS and ON PAPER looks like it should be able to beat Umbrella but we all know that Umbrella would beat them soundly. Same scenario here just on a much smaller basis.

Edit: that being said I have no problem with the attacks just the pitying oh we're smaller they should be able to fight back arguments.
[/quote]
The differences in average strength are not as pronounced here though. Between Umbrella vs GPA and Thriller vs Acti, Thriller vs Acti is a much closer matchup in terms of avg strength and members.

I'm saying let Thriller and Acti have their fun, their war is not affecting anyone else, and its the closest thing to an even fight than we've had in years.