Monster
-
Posts
5,003 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Blogs
Gallery
Blog Comments posted by Monster
-
-
And round and round we go. Over a month removed from your initial arguments on this point and you are still asking people to disprove an assertion you are making without providing any proof yourself for the claims made.
It didn't work then, still does not work now.
The thing is, you're not denying it. You're saying I can't prove it. I think the things that leaked about NSO before the preempt but didn't come out until fairly recently, coupled with later admissions that they were going to enter on the AZTEC front is enough. I'm not saying I have logs of Cortath saying X. I'm saying NPO was going to have to enter once their allies got involved and attacked. You said it wasn't a question of TPF entering, as well. So TCK, are you going to say you were going to keep NPO out? The way you put it was that "NPO would not enter unless one of its allies was hit," meaning you weren't going with the strong "NPO was not going to enter." Is it too much to say "NPO was going to have to enter, but I don't think you should have attacked them like that?"
In any case, the point isn't to prove "NPO was going to enter", it's me saying "we attacked NPO because we thought they were going to enter" as opposed to "out of the blue attack"
-
Take a look at NpO and STA.
MK's "tactical victory" is ironic and a take on NPO's revisionism.
The terms can change and have been negotiable since they were given. A counteroffer has not been presented aside from white peace, which was rejected.
-
Given the imminent involvement of their allies, I'd say yes. I don't think anyone from NPO has said that they were going to be neutral. It would make no sense for them not to enter.
-
"Defeat NPO" is really...general. If you keep up with the preemption argument, we've already been defeated. The NS loses say DH "won", albeit MK and GOONS lost a lot too. Foreign policy wise, you still have all the cards. Given those limited objectives, the war should be over.
Instead, you've opted for completely destroying our ability to make war in the upper tier for months and crippling our rebuilding procedures. Then you turn around, claim those terms are light and announce it on the OWF, resulting in a 150 page topic. I'm not sure if you just want to avoid the standard NPO historical revisionism that will come with giving us white peace. Given the objectives you could have cited, before this war was extended past the NpO front's end, you're argument that you had won would have been strong. But no, you decided to press so now there's no way you could back down from the original terms offered without being seen as "losing", at least in a PR sense. The end result is this war which is probably going to last for months and kill off lots of bored players, primarily on our side, but I expect it will have a toll on yours as well. And that is my problem with DH's stance.
NPO compared to other alliances has been damaged substantially less and the fact that they have been able to keep much of their NS in pm for the entirety of the war makes it hard to say that they've been definitively defeated.
The revisionism is definitely a concern, especially with people on your side saying they will win by making DH bored and getting white peace, so it wouldn't have been strong before the extension. The line existed before.
The original terms can be negotiated but white peace is highly unlikely.
-
"Defeat NPO" is what it comes down to. In addition, to what you've said, I've never seen another DH government say anything to the contrary of what I've said. It's mostly been members saying stuff that contradicts it for reasons I can't fathom. I did show the logs of me asking MT why people were doing that after all. I don't enjoy people posting stupid crap and that was what was happening.
-
I mean, given that I didn't play a small part in actually doing it, my account is correct. I still hold to the assertion that the NPO would have to enter the war at some point. Why did we attack? To preempt NPO's entry. That's why I made it happen. That doesn't mean people didn't dislike NPO or want to attack them before that, but that was the purpose of it. So while, the preemption part was an objective, it's not necessarily the only one, because the issue of the PM stuff came up.
It has been a facepalm fest when I see people say "we attacked them for !@#$% and giggles," for no real reason despite knowing the truth, but meh.
-
Legion seems to be more ready to brave it out than NPO. Props to them.
-
It would have been a tough battle and a pyrrhic victory, but they could eventually swarm TOP because they had superior numbers everywhere else and no one except TOP on the TPF side really could fight, with the exception of TFD and Argent.
-
Legion nations have come out of PM though.
-
Well, people will trash talk regardless, but I don't think any less of the Legion for pulling some nations out.
-
Really? If they have money, they can rebuild.
-
Why not? What's the big deal?
-
Justice has no expiration date. Next time someone throws your alliance under the bus that is the pre-karma Planet Bob you'll understand.
Yeah, it was pretty bad.
-
The thing is, he even knows this since the breakdown was included in his last little report, but he wanted to be coy.
-
TPF is calling the shots on their end and a result has probably caused the most damage to GOONS.
-
Basically, this thinly-veiled propaganda piece just shows that we were focusing on GOONS on over our smaller nations until now. You didn't really do your homework, Tokyo Rose. No one ever said we were going to stop tech buying entirely, and GOONS are mostly on the offensive now rather than under heavy fire. We've probably coordinated the most aid to goons because we developed a proper system for it. I really want to hear about how NPO is doing well as alliances on their side continue to surrender. The implication that we have people joining to mask our NS losses is pretty funny too. We're not NPO. Looking forward to the next edition of Zero Hour, big guy. PM will become a noose tied around these brave Pacificans and the grip on their necks will continue to tighten.
Let's look at the stats: GOONS offensive wars at 247, 61 defensive. In the first weeks, they were under much heavier fire. But with self-proclaimed analysts like yourself, it's either Umbrella is aiding everything into GOONS, cuaisng itself to stagnate or its cutting GOONS off and NPO is winning consequently. The last part is always there somehow. I guess the stockholm syndrome set in despite them levelling your alliance to around 1m NS and making you into their tech farm.
At the end of the day, NPO is no TOP and they can't damage us to any real degree. NSO was one of the main alliances fighting GOONS and ASU was another fighting them. In total, 5 surrenders. CoJ is doing nothing to them now and neither is 64 digits. Avalon is only attacking us. That brings the count of alliances not really fighting GOONS to 8. TPF's not really in a position to launch further offensives either against them. Legion has been taken out of commission of more or less. We're up to 10 now. It's called the Hopeless Coalition for a reason and I think you're dumb as hell if you think people are "content" in PM. I doubt most of them wanted to be in there the first place. NPO itself is under attack by FAN and NoR and they have free reign more or less.
Anyway, my last count before update was 512 slots in use.(including a ghost) with 51 expiring at update unless you're not counting doubles but there weren't 50 doubles either. Meh, maybe there were, but I doubt it.
-
I'm not really sure anyone said NPO was going to get a second chance by default. People waited and they didn't seem to think NPO had changed when they came out of terms, hence people still wanting to roll them and not just DH/PB. I mean I'm pretty sure the RoK-NSO war had the component of getting to roll NPO again.
-
Okay, so the NPO as a whole regrets doing much of what it did? Basically, here's the core issue: NPO as an alliance prides itself on its past and can't really denounce past actions with much ease. For example, you'd have to pretty much demolish Moo given he was Emperor for the most of Pacifica's dominance.
-
The entire Doomhouse vs. NPO thing, regardless of what happened in the past, is distasteful because it happened in the past and (I thought) was resolved. (OOC: at best it's like Great Britain or the US declaring war on Germany for what happened in World War II - yeah, justified then but just plain silly now).
Okay, you godwined it already, so I'm going to beat up your analogy. It's like the Great Britain or US declaring war on Germany if somehow Heinrich Himmler and Rudolf Hess were in charge of Germany and if Germany had never made great efforts to show it was different and upheld its previous glory. Seriously, trying to bring that in was a bad idea. In Germany people actually feel bad for what the regime did, NPO doesn't.
"Well, Cortath and Mary(regent) were both high-ranking officials under Moo, but that just doesn't matter according to an ahistorical perspective."
-
I just skimmed your entire blog post on the matter and can't see any reference as to why CSN would care at all if you decided to help FAN or not. Seriously, I don't get it. We have no strategic interest in the defeat of Pacifica, except for the distant side-effect of Athens fighting Legion. They appear to be doing quite alright though, so it's hardly a concern.
So does this apply exclusively to CSN? I know it's been one of your SF partners goals for a while. I mean you guys had to have known about it, too.
-
You'll rebuild. Maybe I'll buy some tech from you guys? We can arrange it so that on consecutive good deliveries I'll throw in a 50/3 mil deal. Anyway, you guys would make Rocky proud, hang in there.
So do you like GOONS now?
-
This sounds good if you can keep it up.
-
Kind of sucks how that could have all been avoided if the R&R-UINE war had taken off instead of fizzling like most things. It'd have been a very similar war, basically. Hindsight is a !@#$%* though.
-
It would have been done differently if Ragnarok was going to enter for NpO from the onset. As noted by Hoo and others, that was not the case, however.
Economics and the Price of Peace
in Hero's Soapbox
A blog by HeroofTime55 in General
Posted
Let's look at it another way, Ragnarok-PC wasn't a separate war from Polar, but it continued because terms couldn't be agreed upon. That is how I see this.