Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[SpoiL]

Wouldn't it be funny if Karma FANed them

[Petrovich4]

Excellent post Delta - you should wiki that since that perspective is also Vanguard's perspective to a great degree and I suspect many on 'our side.'

And Xiph is correct. Vanguard itself was preparing to get rolled since last September when we 'embarassed' the Powers that be the previous month. Boy, were we pleasantly happy and surprised at how things turned out thus far.

It would be interesting to see Q's perspective, even if it is quite general.

[avernite]

Mind you, this wasn't long after the Codex and I, for one, remember Syz and Janova arguing w/ Vox against some Q guys in a number of threads just prior to them leaving, so we were thinking "Oh crap"

Grämlins weren't dieing at that point, or any point after, say, GW3 plus a month or two.

However, that doesn't mean we didn't think of the possibility. We just considered it rather remote (what with half the Continuum at that time being outright hostile to the idea).

[Earogema]

Well.

I missed quite a bit.

[Sooner]

Since their reform:

A 2 day war they (along with OV) ended up with 1500 tech from alliance with 4000 total tech (in a bad diplomatic move by the person on the other side) provided VE paid for this

12k tech from MK

and UJW: No reps.

So I guess VE is getting progressively worse?

We paid for the tech from USA at and in some cases, above the fair market price. We also helped USA remain stable until their leadership left to join OV. USA also received nation building guides from us along with a month of nation audits to help their nations grow in the best way possible, and confirmed tech deals for 3 months straight. We helped them set up their banking structure and help them become more efficient as an alliance.

We were told to accept the 12k tech from MK after we were told to strike MK because NPO didn't want to take too much damage facing MK. We lost 20K tech but had to accept 12k tech sent to us through NPO, not directly from MK.

As for UJW, we were allowed to reform and given money by Polaris as a starter fund after Royal Dominion and The Directorate merged to form the Viridian Entente.

I guess VE is the Revenge Karma king.

GGA massively weakened

NPO in this war

GOONs disbanded

FAN basically a shell

\m/ disbanded

MDC gone, merged into MCXA, which was fought against by VE

Genmay disbanded

I would say watch your back if you have wronged VE.

Well I guess we all know now that you're NPO's official troll to the VE.

We're not the Revenge nor Karma King, get your facts right. Unless you believe my propaganda that this is nothing but about revenge, then I pity your teachers from grade school for being able to comprehend.

Even before this war, we did our best to help GGA remain stable but NPO always had their hands in GGA's pants. Literally and figuratively. Between being hosted by Bilrow even though he was no longer a member, to having only NPO gov allowed in GGA's private channels and free reign on their forums even after they moved from Bilrow's server, to keeping GGA weak and dependent upon NPO for survival in a war. NPO has always wanted their "allies" as submissive slaves to do their bidding for since the GCW.

And what is your point about NPO being in a war? Of course you are! You attacked our ally and MDP partner? What did you think would happen? That we would just let you march right in and destroy our friends? Hell no, son!

As for GOONS, good riddance. Even the new GOONS is not an alliance I would trust enough no matter how far I threw it like a stick. But just because I don't trust them doesn't mean we're going to break down their doors put them under our jackboots like Pacifica loves to do to anyone, especially the independent types like us and OV.

Also, VE never had any issues with FAN even after the GCW. Even before and during the GCW, we saw more personal respect come to us from FAN than any other alliance. FAN only launched failing attacks against VE nations to keep our damages low. FAN never had any problems with us. The only alliances that went full tilt on VE nations were GGA, NPO, and GOONS.

We never had any problems with \m/ or Genmay. And hell, MDC was a damn good alliance to fight with during GW3. We never fought against them. Hell, most of us were happy when they merged into MCXA.

Now I realize that most of this happened before you joined CN, Mr. Admiral X but it would be best to get the facts straight and correct. If you want that information, talk to Hawk_11 and he will set you straight. Yes, your own FA guru. He will not only show you were you were wrong but he has a Professor Sooner approved ruler to use in beating trolls and idiots. You qualify for both.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Sooner

[Matthew Conrad]

Oh the irony.

Wow you really didn't understand that at all did you? It is really sad how reading comprehension has dropped into the trash bag these days.

[Letum]

And why did Illuminati disband?

Violation of surrender terms.

There's a difference between what you did to ONOS, to just use them as an example, and what RoK did to Illuminati.

NEO declared war on RoK and most of CN from what I see on the wiki.

Terry Howard...and the people who declared on us...

This is what you have come to the playing field with...

The funny part is, not only did we have every reason in the world to attack Illuminati, Dilber actually coordinated with us and nullified their only protection via NPO all of 30 seconds before both Superfriends and CDT declared on them. I think we had to divide targets 8 or more ways just to fit everyone in. Bad example was really bad.

Oh hahaha

I expected this.

The thing is, I never mentioned whether I believe those actions were right or wrong. To believe that they are wrong would imply believing that any similar action I have undertaken is wrong, and I do not believe that. I just mentioned they exist. For some strange reason, you all decided to get defensive over it.

Feeling a little cognitive dissonance? Don't worry, it will go away. Just ignore what I'm saying and claim that I am trying to cover my posterior or something, the masses will lap it up.

You know what would suck? If people dug through your history and brought up every single thing you did, ignoring any justification and simply saying "You are evil". How would that feel? I don't mind it that much, but I'm also not 100% sane, so my feelings might not be trustworthy.

Do you want to know a secret kept hidden behind a waterfall? There is no right and wrong. There is merely what other people think of you. And there's change in that baby.

And you'd better get ready for people to twist everything you've ever said and done, because with our part in world history over, you will be the next part of this chain.

Edit: word filters >_>

Edited June 15, 2009 by Letum

[Roadie]

I have a question for the people fighting NPO. This isn't some bawwing over terms or an attempt to tell you that you're wrong or talk you out of these terms. But, that's exactly the way the question is going to come across and I can't figure out a way to word it so it doesn't come acroos that way.

With SF losing NS while the other blocs are rebuilding and considering the damage some of the NPO nations is peace mode can do if they really come out and fight hard, how does continuing this war and/or making those large nations come out and fight effect SF moving forward?

[Delta1212]

I have a question for the people fighting NPO. This isn't some bawwing over terms or an attempt to tell you that you're wrong or talk you out of these terms. But, that's exactly the way the question is going to come across and I can't figure out a way to word it so it doesn't come acroos that way.

With SF losing NS while the other blocs are rebuilding and considering the damage some of the NPO nations is peace mode can do if they really come out and fight hard, how does continuing this war and/or making those large nations come out and fight effect SF moving forward?

I would assume it'd probably hurt our stats.

[WarriorConcept]

I would assume it'd probably hurt our stats.

Time for NPO to give you guys terms.

[Nintenderek]

I would assume it'd probably hurt our stats.

I've got a question in advance (because I think I know where this is going) and I'm going to ask it. Does SF care that much about their stats or would you lose that much stats, that you would stop this war that they are obviously winning, just for one of those two reasons?

[Tautology]

I've got a question in advance (because I think I know where this is going) and I'm going to ask it. Does SF care that much about their stats or would you lose that much stats, that you would stop this war that they are obviously winning, just for one of those two reasons?

If we cared about our stats, we'd all be in peace mode.

[King DrunkWino]

I've got a question in advance (because I think I know where this is going) and I'm going to ask it. Does SF care that much about their stats or would you lose that much stats, that you would stop this war that they are obviously winning, just for one of those two reasons?

Want a perspective from someone who was recently part of that family?

They don't give a flying ferret about their stats.

[Nintenderek]

If we cared about our stats, we'd all be in peace mode.

Want a perspective from someone who was recently part of that family?

They don't give a flying ferret about their stats.

That's what I thought, but I was just making sure.

[Doge Rex Dart]

Honestly, if you want NPO to disband, I suggest you go out and say it instead of offering peace terms you know full well they won't accept.

As for you, NPO - like you should be surprised. You should've known this was coming - to complain about this (particularly on the OWF, which belongs pretty much exclusively to Karma) is simply not useful. They have no sympathy for you at all - and as far as they're concerned, they SHOULDN'T.

I won't comment on the "justice" or "injustice" of this situation, because frankly, I'm sick of this BS and don't care about it anymore.

OOC: Honestly, sometimes I wonder why I still play this game. Between the NPO baawing and general all-around mean-spiritedness from everyone in the goddamn thread, it causes me to realize something really important: THIS ISN'T ANY FUN. Remember that? Fun?

It's just starting to feel like a second job - a job where every damn person takes every damn thing you do or say personally.

[Letum]

Honestly, if you want NPO to disband, I suggest you go out and say it instead of offering peace terms you know full well they won't accept.

As for you, NPO - like you should be surprised. You should've known this was coming - to complain about this (particularly on the OWF, which belongs pretty much exclusively to Karma) is simply not useful. They have no sympathy for you at all - and as far as they're concerned, they SHOULDN'T.

I won't comment on the "justice" or "injustice" of this situation, because frankly, I'm sick of this BS and don't care about it anymore.

We don't particularly want sympathy.

We're trying to deny them the "It's not our fault its eternal war, we offered terms and they are perfectly logical" PR move by explaining why they are not logical.

It's not working now. It doesn't really need to work now. We've already lost everything, at this point, history is all that will matter.

[Haflinger]

Because Sponge was closely allied to NPO?

Wait, I thought Sponge was unjustly conspired against by Dilber and his pals. Which is it?

NPO gave ONOS the ultimatum of becoming a viceroyalty under the leadership of Ivan Moldavi or being destroyed.

Also, wasn't Ivan a hapless victim of Pacifican machinations too?

And why did Illuminati disband?

Violation of surrender terms.

Why was FAN attacked the second time?

Heh.

(Actually, it's also why GATO was attacked.)

I'm pretty sure this topic isn't about NPO terms anymore...

There are no topics about NPO terms. Any topic with more than 100 posts is about the infinite evil the NPO is responsible for.

Hush now, GGA is the one alliance I am AMAZED didn't end up in the scrap pile, be thankful your new overlords even let you surrender.

They are too ineffective to be worth the time to kill.

I can not believe this thread is still going on. If I have to write about this thread AGAIN in next weeks Trashcat cause its still alive and kicking Im gonna be pissed.

Some people might see this is as a challenge

That begs the question, why would TORN possibly have any nations on yellow at that time after being at war with FAN?

Wait, is the implication here that by going to war with FAN an alliance gives up the right to admit yellow nations?

Woah.

an example of what I don't like about the terms and Karma's rationale for enforcing them is that they are quoting conflicts (NAAC, LUE) that have long been settled and buried. That world is not the world we live in and the "crimes" the NPO presumably committed against those alliances have long been settled. LUE and the NAAC were as clear a threat to the NPO as is theoretically possible. I don't understand how they can be held accountable for such events.

The trend for the last few years has been for alliance leaders to carry grudges around forever until they finally get an opportunity to strike. Nobody wants new drama, they wish to complete old drama.

More or less? Yes

... and it was justified.

And you guys think NPO was behind that?

Oh-boy.

[Starbuck]

I feel no simpathy for the members of the New Pacific Order, you could have easily accepted paid and then rebuilt, leaving you crippled and defeated is the point of the surrender terms so that there is no question as to who has one this war, just like the last time you rebuild your ego got the better of you and you had the gall to say you didn't lose. As to the others fighting on the side of the NPO, all I can say is good luck. TPF has a great number of friends in it and I am glade to know you are standing by your values, when this war is over I would be glade to help

[Merrie Melodies]

THIS ISN'T ANY FUN. Remember that? Fun?

It's just starting to feel like a second job - a job where every damn person takes every damn thing you do or say personally.

Bob has just become a extremely fun and exciting place, for the first time since year 1 (OOC 2006) anything can happen, nothing is predictable and great drama is in the air, NPO can no longer dictate, the present coalition of Karma while impressive in there actions against NPO will not remain a cohesive organization after NPO capitulates which will create a power vacuum that many will maneuver to fill. IMO we are heading into the most fun and exciting period since fall/winter of year one.

[Delta1212]

Bob has just become a extremely fun and exciting place, for the first time since year 1 (OOC 2006) anything can happen, nothing is predictable and great drama is in the air, NPO can no longer dictate, the present coalition of Karma while impressive in there actions against NPO will not remain a cohesive organization after NPO capitulates which will create a power vacuum that many will maneuver to fill. IMO we are heading into the most fun and exciting period since fall/winter of year one.

I was just commenting earlier on IRC that for the first time in years there is something to look at on these forums on a daily basis other than PIAT announcements and polls about who is coolest. (Not that those are gone, there are just other more interesting things going on every day as well).

[Azhrarn]

We don't particularly want sympathy.

We're trying to deny them the "It's not our fault its eternal war, we offered terms and they are perfectly logical" PR move by explaining why they are not logical.

It's not working now. It doesn't really need to work now. We've already lost everything, at this point, history is all that will matter.

No, you didn't "lose" everything. You threw away everything. And yes, you do want sympathy. Go back and read your own damn OP.

Instead of wasting your time asking for pity, try doing something productive, like, I don't know, doing some long, hard thinking about just how you threw everything away.

[Ogaden]

No, you didn't "lose" everything. You threw away everything. And yes, you do want sympathy. Go back and read your own damn OP.

Instead of wasting your time asking for pity, try doing something productive, like, I don't know, doing some long, hard thinking about just how you threw everything away.

No, we're not asking for sympathy, we're asking for the Vindictive Coalition to be reasonable.

[Roadie]

I would assume it'd probably hurt our stats.

Stats is it? No concern about war chests heading into the next war or anything like that?

[zzzptm]

No, we're not asking for sympathy, we're asking for the Vindictive Coalition to be reasonable.

No. You're asking for a knuckle sandwich.

[Watson895]

The first time FAN was given peace, when 50% of the alliance was in ZI, and we had fewer than 300 member nations, we still moved upwards of 500 mil per cycle, moving closer to 750 mil per cycle before you broke the peace terms. You have more than twice the nations, and more than four times the NS we did then. You should be able to move at least 1 billion per cycle with even a half assed approach.

Your terms to us included 6.66 billion in reps, and at another time, simply "die". This is harsh, but far from impossible. It's a 2-3 month thing. Would you rather go though what we did? I'm not trying to be an $@! or anything, I'm just saying, you'd be damn surprised what you can do when you put your mind to it.