Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Delta1212]

Alright, can someone point me to where this meme originated from?

That's going to be hard. It's been said verbatim a lot. Sort of went out of style sometime after the NoCB war as the risk of someone taking it literally and following through began to rise sharply, especially with Vox using that as a rallying cry.

[Ogaden]

Sequence of the build up to the war from SF's perspective as presented in a rough amalgamation of faux conversations based on what was said at various points in our discussions:

Step 1:

"Grämlins is going to leave Q"

"What the $%&@ are they doing? Half of Q hates them, they're going to get rolled!"

"What the hell do we do?"

"We should stand firm with them and nobody'll be able to start !@#$."

"$%&@. No way this isn't going to spark a war, but fine."

"Ok, time to start buying nukes and finding allies. We need to circle the wagons or we're going to get stomped."

Step 2:

"Anyone else getting felt out in that familiar failure-to-be-subtle way to see if we want to get closer to Q and/or think Grämlins suck?."

"Yeah, Dilber asked Fark and Rok if they'd like an invite to Continuum."

"Well don't tell him no. We don't want them thinking we'll side with Grämlins if/when it comes down to it or we paint a target on ourselves."

"Oh hell, Dilber found out we told SF and now he's pissed because he told us not to tell anyone."

"He thought you wouldn't tell us? What the hell kind of blocs has he been in?"

"Oh $%&@, Grinch just log-dumped Hoo saying we'd side against NPO."

"What? Why the $%&@ was Hoo talking to Grinch about anything?"

"So there goes any chance of flying under the radar."

"We are so going to get targeted."

"Oh for $%&@'s sake, now Hoo is retiring. God dammit, Hoo."

Step 3:

"Bud seemed like he was fishing for information so Xiph told him we were going to attack Continuum and then destroy Grämlins to see if it gets spread around."

"Well this will end well."

"You should probably tell Grämlins."

"Already did."

"Ok cool."

"Oh lord, Continuum is going around to all your allies with it now."

"God this is funny. They think Xiphosis is trying to mastermind their destruction."

"So anyway, it seems we've stumbled on a bunch of other people trying to form a bloc."

"We've got FOK, Umbrella, MHA, and Sparta in talks with us."

"They're trying to get Grämlins and maybe TOP."

"Ok, so TOP thinks it's stupid."

"Ugh, now some people in Umbrella are worried because TOP doesn't like it."

"Oh for god's sake, MHA wants to bring in NPO."

"Oh damn Vox! They plastered it all over the forums. Are they trying to kill this?"

"Alright, well MHA won't do it without Grämlins. Grämlins won't do it without MHA and Umbrella won't do it without either."

"Now Grämlins just don't want to join it."

"Ok, well that idea went well."

Step 4:

"Rok is having some problems."

"Awesome."

"Hal says TailsK might go defect to NPO or something."

"Jesus Christ..."

"And... Hal just went and joined Valhalla."

"And he's sending us taunting PMs telling us we're all talk and if we wanted a war we should go start one. Also that he screenshotted our boards."

"..."

"Is he high?"

"Now VE and the International are going at it. Can we keep people we need with us from killing each other please?"

"Oh god, Continuum are so going to turn this into a PR disaster for us."

"IRON just gave VE notice."

"And VE just canceled on NPO and GGA."

"So, guys, Kait decided this would be a good time to cancel on their NPO treaty."

"Well, this is going to be interesting."

"And there goes the FA blitz."

"We've got three NPO diplomats on our boards right now, and two of them are Dilber and Triyun."

"Yeah, we have Moo on ours."

"Jesus, everyone I talk to has an NPO Q&A going on."

"Holy !@#$, they're scared..."

"Oh man, they gave back MK's first strike policy for a PIAT?"

"Apparently they asked for an MDP and the membership shot it down hard."

"Yeah, that PIAT really accomplished alot. Especially since Archon keeps saying he wants to stay out of this anyway."

"Eh, I don't think his membership will let him, but we'll see."

Step 5:

"Hey guys, a bunch of people in Valhalla are in peace mode."

"Oh !@#$, more are dropping in."

"TPF, too."

"Most of Q."

"Jesus, this could be legit. I'd get everyone to Defcon 1 ASAP."

"Vanguard says TORN is shopping around a CB against OV but they won't say what it is. Apparently they requested MK help them but didn't have a lot of luck."

"Any idea what the CB is?"

"At the moment it's something about spying on TPF, but the details keep changing."

"So it's BS?"

"Probably but they won't commit to anything so we don't even know what their CB is let alone what its validity might be."

"Well we'd better try to find out."

"They're rebuffing all offers of mediation saying to wait closer to update."

"What?! Are we supposed to find out what the CB is in their DoW?"

"Well it's not like we have a lot of options here."

"I could always cancel our PIAT with them citing manufacturing a CB. Getting that out their now would make it near impossible diplomatically to declare tonight. Buy some time."

"Yeah, but we don't know for sure it is manufactured because we don't know what it is, and that would come back to bite us."

"I could always change CB to war. If withholding any information on a casus belli and rebuffing any attempts at diplomacy until the universally recognized declaration time isn't trying to manufacture a war, I don't know what is."

"Yeah, that works."

"Well, we got them into talks finally. Apparently, OV is being accused of signing a treaty with Blackstone, spying on TPF and on NPO."

"Do they have any evidence?"

"They're saying OV has to admit to and if they don't before evidence is presented it means they haven't learned anything."

"What a load of horse !@#$."

"Apparently, TOP and MHA are leaving Continuum. Grämlins say they should be free of obligations by Monday."

"Oh my god, mhawk just told Impero to roll the hard six in talks."

"You have to be joking. That is !@#$@#$ hilarious."

"Dammit, they actually did accept a screenshot from Blackstone."

"Oh hell. That's just going to let them dig in despite having jack to back up their accusations."

"They've basically dropped all the other issues now that they have something to latch onto that they didn't make up, even if it is stupid."

"Gotta love how TORN and TPF have been negotiating with OV over a screenshot of NPO's forums. Yep, they definitely had real grievances before this all started, because that's exactly what would happen."

"Chill thinks the CB is legit and won't vote in favor of a war."

"So, everyone else in Grämlins is for it."

"They require a unanimous council vote to declare war or something. However it works, it basically gives Chill veto power over declaring war."

"!@#$"

"Grämlins is basically revolting, they've got a poll going that's ridiculously in favor of war but it doesn't mean anything legally."

"With Grämlins looking like they won't come in, a lot of people are saying we should just let them have OV now and they don't want to fight."

"You have got to be !@#$@#$ kidding me. We can win this, and now it's going to fizzle out. An entire coalition built itself up this weekend. No way in hell is that going to happen again."

"We've still got preparations going on. If we let them ZI the guy that accepted the screens, we can take another stab at this later."

"I already did that once with iClean. No way in hell am I doing that again."

"Agreed. KasMage was supposed to serve a single ZI sentence, then had it switched to PZI when he reached it. We're defending our our friends."

"Alright, find out who will still go in and everybody prepare to pull a FAN."

"C&G is still in. So is VE."

"Sparta is with us. I gave Tulak plenty of outs to avoid getting stomped but he's still coming in."

"Anyone still have a link to the topic where I outlined ideas for fighting an indefinite guerrilla war?"

"Oh, someone pointed out that TPF had to accept info to find out OV accepted the screenshot. Chill says he'd back an offer of exchanging expulsion from OV and ZI for the identity of person who gave the info to TPF, or mhawk's ZI if they can't or won't give it up."

"What?"

"Well, this'll be interesting."

"Yeah, that isn't going to go over well."

"At least our side has settled down a bit."

"Honestly, I'm not sure this is going to break out in a war. They've already been worked down to accepting a single ZI sentence. I can see them turning over the informant."

"Guys, look at the war screen."

"No way."

"Did they seriously just declare war in the middle of negotiations?"

"Well, here we go!"

"You know, I think there's a chance we might survive this after all."

Edit: It took so long to type that the thing it's addressed to fell way, way back, but I'm not deleting all of that.

Nice, it's interesting to see the buildup from the other side. B)

Obviously we have differing opinions on the same events, but a decent summary from the SF perspective.

[sethb]

So OV do you feel used yet?

From what I can see this war has nothing, and had nothing to do with the fact NPO attacked OV.

The reparations being asked for have nothing to do with NPO attacking OV, Karmas reasons for any actions involving NPO stem from past actions taken by the NPO against other alliances altogether.

Take it from one who knows what it’s like to be used OV, you have been.

From the spy intell that was passed on to you, the peace negotiations that you did not get to run to keep the war from starting, and the terms given to all the alliances that came to fight for NPO that I’m sure Karma didn’t ask your opinion on,

Even now I don’t see OV in any of this as far as the reparations being asked for. They are the alliance that was attacked! Don’t you think that reps should be left up to them and the rest of you that came in to help them should be happy with what they feel is fair and just? No I don’t think so because OV was used and it’s sad to see it from those that say they are here to change things.

Do not try and think you know anything about the relationship OV has with our friends and allies.

[enderland]

Alright, can someone point me to where this meme originated from?

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=573186

[Heft]

Hey guys while I realize that the SF post is pretty frickin' cool and stuff (which it is, I'll admit) we don't all have to quote it just to say one or two lines about how frickin' cool it is because this thread is already painful enough to skim as it is. Thank you for your time and have a nice day.

[Ogaden]

That's going to be hard. It's been said verbatim a lot. Sort of went out of style sometime after the NoCB war as the risk of someone taking it literally and following through began to rise sharply, especially with Vox using that as a rallying cry.

Weird thing to do but oh well.

Edited June 15, 2009 by James Dahl

[KingSuck]

something tells me if/when you guys do get peace terms your surrender thread is going to beat ours length-wise

[Roadie]

Sequence of the build up to the war from SF's perspective as presented in a rough amalgamation of faux conversations based on what was said at various points in our discussions:

Step 1:

"Grämlins is going to leave Q"

"What the $%&@ are they doing? Half of Q hates them, they're going to get rolled!"

"What the hell do we do?"

"We should stand firm with them and nobody'll be able to start !@#$."

"$%&@. No way this isn't going to spark a war, but fine."

"Ok, time to start buying nukes and finding allies. We need to circle the wagons or we're going to get stomped."

Step 2:

"Anyone else getting felt out in that familiar failure-to-be-subtle way to see if we want to get closer to Q and/or think Grämlins suck?."

"Yeah, Dilber asked Fark and Rok if they'd like an invite to Continuum."

"Well don't tell him no. We don't want them thinking we'll side with Grämlins if/when it comes down to it or we paint a target on ourselves."

"Oh hell, Dilber found out we told SF and now he's pissed because he told us not to tell anyone."

"He thought you wouldn't tell us? What the hell kind of blocs has he been in?"

"Oh $%&@, Grinch just log-dumped Hoo saying we'd side against NPO."

"What? Why the $%&@ was Hoo talking to Grinch about anything?"

"So there goes any chance of flying under the radar."

"We are so going to get targeted."

"Oh for $%&@'s sake, now Hoo is retiring. God dammit, Hoo."

Step 3:

"Bud seemed like he was fishing for information so Xiph told him we were going to attack Continuum and then destroy Grämlins to see if it gets spread around."

"Well this will end well."

"You should probably tell Grämlins."

"Already did."

"Ok cool."

"Oh lord, Continuum is going around to all your allies with it now."

"God this is funny. They think Xiphosis is trying to mastermind their destruction."

"So anyway, it seems we've stumbled on a bunch of other people trying to form a bloc."

"We've got FOK, Umbrella, MHA, and Sparta in talks with us."

"They're trying to get Grämlins and maybe TOP."

"Ok, so TOP thinks it's stupid."

"Ugh, now some people in Umbrella are worried because TOP doesn't like it."

"Oh for god's sake, MHA wants to bring in NPO."

"Oh damn Vox! They plastered it all over the forums. Are they trying to kill this?"

"Alright, well MHA won't do it without Grämlins. Grämlins won't do it without MHA and Umbrella won't do it without either."

"Now Grämlins just don't want to join it."

"Ok, well that idea went well."

Step 4:

"Rok is having some problems."

"Awesome."

"Hal says TailsK might go defect to NPO or something."

"Jesus Christ..."

"And... Hal just went and joined Valhalla."

"And he's sending us taunting PMs telling us we're all talk and if we wanted a war we should go start one. Also that he screenshotted our boards."

"..."

"Is he high?"

"Now VE and the International are going at it. Can we keep people we need with us from killing each other please?"

"Oh god, Continuum are so going to turn this into a PR disaster for us."

"IRON just gave VE notice."

"And VE just canceled on NPO and GGA."

"So, guys, Kait decided this would be a good time to cancel on their NPO treaty."

"Well, this is going to be interesting."

"And there goes the FA blitz."

"We've got three NPO diplomats on our boards right now, and two of them are Dilber and Triyun."

"Yeah, we have Moo on ours."

"Jesus, everyone I talk to has an NPO Q&A going on."

"Holy !@#$, they're scared..."

"Oh man, they gave back MK's first strike policy for a PIAT?"

"Apparently they asked for an MDP and the membership shot it down hard."

"Yeah, that PIAT really accomplished alot. Especially since Archon keeps saying he wants to stay out of this anyway."

"Eh, I don't think his membership will let him, but we'll see."

Step 5:

"Hey guys, a bunch of people in Valhalla are in peace mode."

"Oh !@#$, more are dropping in."

"TPF, too."

"Most of Q."

"Jesus, this could be legit. I'd get everyone to Defcon 1 ASAP."

"Vanguard says TORN is shopping around a CB against OV but they won't say what it is. Apparently they requested MK help them but didn't have a lot of luck."

"Any idea what the CB is?"

"At the moment it's something about spying on TPF, but the details keep changing."

"So it's BS?"

"Probably but they won't commit to anything so we don't even know what their CB is let alone what its validity might be."

"Well we'd better try to find out."

"They're rebuffing all offers of mediation saying to wait closer to update."

"What?! Are we supposed to find out what the CB is in their DoW?"

"Well it's not like we have a lot of options here."

"I could always cancel our PIAT with them citing manufacturing a CB. Getting that out their now would make it near impossible diplomatically to declare tonight. Buy some time."

"Yeah, but we don't know for sure it is manufactured because we don't know what it is, and that would come back to bite us."

"I could always change CB to war. If withholding any information on a casus belli and rebuffing any attempts at diplomacy until the universally recognized declaration time isn't trying to manufacture a war, I don't know what is."

"Yeah, that works."

"Well, we got them into talks finally. Apparently, OV is being accused of signing a treaty with Blackstone, spying on TPF and on NPO."

"Do they have any evidence?"

"They're saying OV has to admit to and if they don't before evidence is presented it means they haven't learned anything."

"What a load of horse !@#$."

"Apparently, TOP and MHA are leaving Continuum. Grämlins say they should be free of obligations by Monday."

"Oh my god, mhawk just told Impero to roll the hard six in talks."

"You have to be joking. That is !@#$@#$ hilarious."

"Dammit, they actually did accept a screenshot from Blackstone."

"Oh hell. That's just going to let them dig in despite having jack to back up their accusations."

"They've basically dropped all the other issues now that they have something to latch onto that they didn't make up, even if it is stupid."

"Gotta love how TORN and TPF have been negotiating with OV over a screenshot of NPO's forums. Yep, they definitely had real grievances before this all started, because that's exactly what would happen."

"Chill thinks the CB is legit and won't vote in favor of a war."

"So, everyone else in Grämlins is for it."

"They require a unanimous council vote to declare war or something. However it works, it basically gives Chill veto power over declaring war."

"!@#$"

"Grämlins is basically revolting, they've got a poll going that's ridiculously in favor of war but it doesn't mean anything legally."

"With Grämlins looking like they won't come in, a lot of people are saying we should just let them have OV now and they don't want to fight."

"You have got to be !@#$@#$ kidding me. We can win this, and now it's going to fizzle out. An entire coalition built itself up this weekend. No way in hell is that going to happen again."

"We've still got preparations going on. If we let them ZI the guy that accepted the screens, we can take another stab at this later."

"I already did that once with iClean. No way in hell am I doing that again."

"Agreed. KasMage was supposed to serve a single ZI sentence, then had it switched to PZI when he reached it. We're defending our our friends."

"Alright, find out who will still go in and everybody prepare to pull a FAN."

"C&G is still in. So is VE."

"Sparta is with us. I gave Tulak plenty of outs to avoid getting stomped but he's still coming in."

"Anyone still have a link to the topic where I outlined ideas for fighting an indefinite guerrilla war?"

"Oh, someone pointed out that TPF had to accept info to find out OV accepted the screenshot. Chill says he'd back an offer of exchanging expulsion from OV and ZI for the identity of person who gave the info to TPF, or mhawk's ZI if they can't or won't give it up."

"What?"

"Well, this'll be interesting."

"Yeah, that isn't going to go over well."

"At least our side has settled down a bit."

"Honestly, I'm not sure this is going to break out in a war. They've already been worked down to accepting a single ZI sentence. I can see them turning over the informant."

"Guys, look at the war screen."

"No way."

"Did they seriously just declare war in the middle of negotiations?"

"Well, here we go!"

"You know, I think there's a chance we might survive this after all."

Edit: It took so long to type that the thing it's addressed to fell way, way back, but I'm not deleting all of that.

So you're saying Karma got started over some sort of panic about Gram being attacked?

[Ogaden]

Do not try and think you know anything about the relationship OV has with our friends and allies.

I believe one of your allies and friends referred to you as cheese whiz on a mouse trap.

[Delta1212]

Weird thing to do but oh well.

Yeah

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...st&p=573186

Or you could go find an example...

Although to be fair, it's been said since the old boards, so that's not technically where it originated from, just a good example.

Edited June 15, 2009 by Delta1212

[enderland]

Weird thing to do but oh well.

See the link I posted.

[LiquidMercury]

I hate you, from the perspective of I just had to think if you were serious or not for a good minute.

Aww you know you really do love me. And who knows if I'm serious.

[Roadie]

Do not try and think you know anything about the relationship OV has with our friends and allies.

When quoting Archon it is better to quote verbatim.

[sethb]

When quoting Archon it is better to quote verbatim.

I wasn't quoting Archon...

[enderland]

See the link I posted.

Also if you want to see why people don't have sympathy for NPO read through that thread and read your government's responses.

[sethb]

I believe one of your allies and friends referred to you as cheese whiz on a mouse trap.

Care to link me to that?

[white majik]

I Love Delta

greatest post ever

cant we just kill this thread?

Please?

Okay, back to sitting in my corner

watching 100 pages a day pop up

[Krack]

So you're saying Karma got started over some sort of panic about Gram being attacked?

More or less? Yes

... and it was justified.

[Uhtred]

So you're saying Karma got started over some sort of panic about Gram being attacked?

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1618208

[Xiphosis]

More or less? Yes

Mind you, this wasn't long after the Codex and I, for one, remember Syz and Janova arguing w/ Vox against some Q guys in a number of threads just prior to them leaving, so we were thinking "Oh crap"

[ironchef]

Do not try and think you know anything about the relationship OV has with our friends and allies.

I never said I did sethb. I said to me it looks like you have been used. If you let them do it to achieve a common goal then good for you, if not I’m not happy about it being done to you. But the word on the street is OV has very little to do with any of this other than the CB NPO had on you.

[kingzog]

There really isn't anything more to be added to or taken from this discussion, is there?

So rather than continuing to post:

[12:13] <Moo-Cows> the other nations in peace must feel the pain the rest of the alliance suffered

[12:13] <Moo-Cows> I did not shape these terms but I believe in that strongly

....and continuing to remind people that I got my damn letter, I think I'll finally walk away unless I see something painfully stupid and feel the urge to point and laugh.

And then there's this beauty, which has surely come back to haunt the NPO.

Some final thoughts:

There are many, many people who would like to see the NPO disbanded, their forums shut down and their leading members subject to endless military attacks. I am not part of that group, although it is fun to fantasize....

There is a larger group who believe the NPO should be held liable for their past actions and compelled to pay a sum that will effectively cripple the alliance for a long time to come, but will otherwise keep the 'community' intact. I belong to this group.

Others believe the NPO should be subject to reduced reparation payments or, indeed, no reparations whatsoever. These people are kidding themselves.

At this point, it doesn't really matter what the NPO thinks. It is one thing to negotiate one's surrender terms, hoping that a better deal will come along later. But taking the matter before the rest of Planet Bob? That is quite possibly the most foolish thing Moo could have done, and does nothing but provide an excellent example of why he should step down once this mess is over.

To those of you in the NPO:

Please read this thread carefully. You may not like what an awful lot of people have to say about your alliance, but that's irrelevant. You have lost and they have won. The opinions of those who cry out for reduced/no reps have no weight whatsoever, beyond providing you with a bit of false hope. Pay no attention to them. These people think they're helping you, but all I see is a lot of Karma people getting their backs up.

Better terms are not forthcoming. Your alliance will continue its slide down the rankings, regardless of whether or when you surrender. All this thread has done is to provide a focal point for a great deal of anti-NPO sentiment. Again....read this thread carefully and ask yourselves if you think anything positive has been achieved by your Emperor's statement.

You may think the anger displayed here has given you a small moral victory. Perhaps it has. But a moral victory is no match for the real thing, and it won't improve your terms by one iota.

Surrender individually or encourage your leaders to agree to the terms offered. Or, if you are one of those nations in peace mode, do your alliance a favor and fight. If enough NPO members did that, this war could be over by the end of the month, the rest of the world could start complaining about how "boring" Planet Bob is and you could get down to the serious business of paying off those reps, rebuilding your international reputation and ensuring that something like this never happens again.

I think most of the people in this thread (except for the die-hard haters, of course) will be willing to give the NPO another chance somewhere down the road. I certainly would. But for that to happen, the war must end first. And....wow....this thread was a terrible, terrible idea.

To 200 pages, and beyond!

Edited June 16, 2009 by kingzog

[sethb]

I never said I did sethb. I said to me it looks like you have been used. If you let them do it to achieve a common goal then good for you, if not I’m not happy about it being done to you. But the word on the street is OV has very little to do with any of this other than the CB NPO had on you.

I have made damn sure OV has had a large say in the terms and the reps we will receive.

[Xiphosis]

I never said I did sethb. I said to me it looks like you have been used. If you let them do it to achieve a common goal then good for you, if not I’m not happy about it being done to you. But the word on the street is OV has very little to do with any of this other than the CB NPO had on you.

Our whole side was basically a powder keg waiting to be lit. There was just no way C&G, SF, Cit or anyone was going to let Q tromple over one of us without getting involved. Too many of us felt our card was up, and while we weren't sure who was gonna get hit, we knew someone was and we were determined not to go down piecemeal.

That's how you got Karma. It didn't matter if they'd hit OV, or STA, or RoK, or Athens. Either way, it would've gone down how it did, with the exception of NPO's timing (mid-negotiations) and weak CB paving the way for a lot of the guys who were on the fence to make the jump.

[Ogaden]

Care to link me to that?

Hmm it turns out I was wrong, it was some guy from GATO.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1574390