Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[Mihail the Just]

My understanding .... someone from SNX attacks a member of a Umbrella ally. Something was agreed, the agreement did not follow through ... Umbrella declares to support its ally, as they are busy in another war.. Umbrella asks another Ally to join them. That ally says sure buddy :) would be glad to dance :) ... ummmm where is the Non CB ?

 

I know the OP was overly wordy, and rife with self-contradictions, but it was pretty explicitly stated that there was no moral reason or obligation for this declaration. That was some refreshing honesty...

 

Let me help out:

 

It is simply a case of Two sides that want to fight each other, and everybody knows it.

And our allies have picked a side, so we will lend our support to it with the full weight of our military arsenal.

We will not shy away from this responsibility by trying to dress it up in some faux morality or claim that we are only "defending allies". Unlike the coalition that attacked us last war, which is collectively trying to run away from any responsibility for their conduct, we are signing up to this aware of the full weight of our choices. It is our fervent hope that more alliances can learn to accept the responsibility of entering a war as something concrete, and not just an ugly obligation you "have to do" so that you can maintain a connection to the morass of the treaty web.

 

 

I trust there is no lingering distaste of your own alliance's actions behind your attempt to back-peddle your own Emperor's words?   :psyduck:

[Maelstrom Vortex]

No backpedalling. We have no reason to really bother snx... except they were unlucky enough to be fighting our ally. You propose a paradox where there is none. Letum said it himself, "It is simply a case of Two sides that want to fight each other, and everybody knows it." Is that a valid cb?

 

We don't care?

 

There is a cause for events whether or not there is a cause for belligerence. A treaty chain is just one of many. The cause for events could be "We're bored."

[Cortath]

 

I may be dramatic but I am still essentially right. Once you grasp the totality of DBDC's hold over the upper tier it becomes clear that they represent a new class development in our world, much like the Userites of another age. It is in their interest for civilized alliances to wage war on one another while they continue to break down the system of ordered anarchy which has prevailed throughout our history.

 

By breaking down the barriers of alliances, they place themselves in a position to create a new world order based around the same destructive "friends > infra" philosophy of our old mutual enemy in the Mushroom Kingdom. They have already established a precedent of targeting individual alliance members for speaking out (such as your Caladin) and should they achieve Hegemony, alliance governments will simply be symbolic shells, often puppets of their Doomsphere masters. From there they can begin to exploit Feederite regions for tech.

 

So yes, I may be dramatic, but there is a point behind my protests... this struggle transcends classical alliance politics and grievances and represents a new class warfare. For NPO to play into their hands represents perhaps the single greatest break from Francoist government since the Moldavi Overthrow and Reign of the Mad Emperor.

 

*chuckles sadly, but then just cries into a facepalm*

 

You're just posting nonsense NS Francoism gibberish in between your posts now. What the !@#$ is a "Feederite region for tech" from a "symbolic shell of alliance government?"

 

Lol at the people who keep dropping my name to try and discredit the truth. NPO once had a higher calling, an inherent revolutionary drive to forge order from chaos. Creating more chaos from chaos to satisfy a grudge or avoid a harder ideological war does not result in order, what ever rationalizing is done by the OP. You have chosen to side with the lulzists in a conflict started by a satellite of DBDC without a casus belli.

As the alliance which introduced concepts of civilization like the Casus Belli, maybe Pacifica should take a moment to think about the long term implications of this momentous declaration of war. Handing over the leadership of the revolution to Polar is a good start, since the valor of that ancient struggle is obviously just words to you now.

We never had a "higher calling." There are no Gods in Francoism. We are no proselytizing religion. We serve no one but ourselves. We do not wish people to join us who do not desire to do so; we don't wish to convert some heathen "chaosians" into "Orderians."

 

That's never been what Francoism is about. Francoism is a guiding set of principles or philosophies that helps to teach us how to analyze the material realities of the world in which we live such that we can achieve peace, strength, and prosperity.

 

Francoism doesn't give two hoots if other people don't have peace, strength, and prosperity. If you want it, come over to us, but we're not waging wars to try to persuade people's hearts and minds to join us [i]because the material realities of this world don't permit it.[/i] There is no way to force someone to join our alliance. There is no way to force someone to believe a thing they don't want to believe. Well, I suppose there's blackmail, but that's not very effective, now is it?

 

What Francoism demands the most is [i]seriousness[/i]. Seriousness in analyzing the world. Seriousness in engaging in self-criticism. Seriousness in seeking self-improvement.

 

And seriousness in debating with others. Good day.

[brucemania]

 

I know the OP was overly wordy, and rife with self-contradictions, but it was pretty explicitly stated that there was no moral reason or obligation for this declaration. That was some refreshing honesty...

 

Let me help out:

 

 

I trust there is no lingering distaste of your own alliance's actions behind your attempt to back-peddle your own Emperor's words?   :psyduck:

 

not back peddling at all or trying to make that impression .. just keeping it simple and having fun :) .. and it is what it is .. everything does not have to be moral .. some things could be done for other reasons... i am sure NpO has done that in the past but it is not for me to question or comment as that would be what you do.  Politics is always something that not always people agree on. But what i do know is that when one of your members say we have no right to this .. we actually do.  Regardless of the DS/Invicta thing war is war regardless if there is a CB or none CB or its a raid or whatever.  Does Umbrella have the right to do what they did Yes .. cause they are Allies.. do we have the right to war side by side with them .. Yes we do cause that is why we sign treaties .. ( last i heard anyways) .. Did Letum have the right in his declaration to bring up Polar .. sure cause assuming we will be countered as i assume your side will MORALLY defend your allies .. he can say what he wants such as you will say what you would like if you enter any conflict.

[HeroofTime55]

 

just to let you know we are at war with SNX ... not Invicta .... is that not what this thread is about and what i stated ?

Just so we are totally clear:
DS attacked Invicta out of the blue and without cause
SNX, who are Invicta's Aftermath blockmates, find themselves in conflict with DS
You clowns then join in the DS/DBDC/Umbrella aggressive conflict against Aftermath.

I have been pretty much entirely out of the political loop for about a year now, and it takes about 5 seconds of looking stuff up to figure this out.

Pacifica has chosen the wrong side.  Whether the other side wins or loses is irrelevant.  Pacifica loses no matter what.  Either you get your asses kicked by the people you just hit, or when the dust settles, Doomsphere is going to gleefully insert cold steel in your backsides.  You are the very definition of useful idiots.  

So desperate for the faintest taste of your former glory, that you align with these total buffoons.  These morons who have made their intentions mind-blowingly clear, these creatures that have even attacked Pacifica's most "cherished" allies in opportunistic raids on the top tiers of anyone they feel like hitting.  Are you sure this is the world you want?  Are you positive?

[Maelstrom Vortex]

@Hero: A world that burns is a world that is warm.

[keeology]

No backpedalling. We have no reason to really bother snx... except they were unlucky enough to be fighting our ally. You propose a paradox where there is none. Letum said it himself, "It is simply a case of Two sides that want to fight each other, and everybody knows it." Is that a valid cb?
 
We don't care?
 
There is a cause for events whether or not there is a cause for belligerence. A treaty chain is just one of many. The cause for events could be "We're bored."

Witch NPO ally were we fighting? Seriously guys be honest others ask you to hit us as part of a plan and you said yes.

[keeology]

Edit- double post

Edited November 14, 2014 by keeology

[Mihail the Just]

Maelstrom and Bruce - I'm not criticising your position on not having a CB, just the irony of some feeling the need to justify one later.

 

Letum put it most simply when he said, as you've pointed out, two sides want to fight, so they'll fight. I also don't care whether that is valid or not. But he made it pretty clear that no conventionally legitimate CB needed manufacturing, so the path traced in the comment that I was responding to is unnecessary and irrelevant - your Emperor said so... so you should feel free to 'own' it and not bother whether it is right (you have the right) or not.

 

All I'm suggesting is that you should [play your new roles consistently!

Edited November 14, 2014 by Mihail the Just

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Maelstrom and Bruce - I'm not criticising your position on not having a CB, just the irony of some feeling the need to justify one later.

 

Letum put it most simply when he said, as you've pointed out, two sides want to fight, so they'll fight. I also don't care whether that is valid or not. But he made it pretty clear that no conventionally legitimate CB needed manufacturing, so the path traced in the comment that I was responding to is unnecessary and irrelevant - your Emperor said so...

 

You have described half of the OWF discussion content as well. *chortles* Sometimes banter is just that.

[brucemania]

Just so we are totally clear:
DS attacked Invicta out of the blue and without cause
SNX, who are Invicta's Aftermath blockmates, find themselves in conflict with DS
You clowns then join in the DS/DBDC/Umbrella aggressive conflict against Aftermath.

I have been pretty much entirely out of the political loop for about a year now, and it takes about 5 seconds of looking stuff up to figure this out.

Pacifica has chosen the wrong side.  Whether the other side wins or loses is irrelevant.  Pacifica loses no matter what.  Either you get your asses kicked by the people you just hit, or when the dust settles, Doomsphere is going to gleefully insert cold steel in your backsides.  You are the very definition of useful idiots.  

So desperate for the faintest taste of your former glory, that you align with these total buffoons.  These morons who have made their intentions mind-blowingly clear, these creatures that have even attacked Pacifica's most "cherished" allies in opportunistic raids on the top tiers of anyone they feel like hitting.  Are you sure this is the world you want?  Are you positive?

 

Clowns .. Idiots .. buffooons .. been called that will be called that agian .. after all we are NPO and well we are used to it :)

Edited November 14, 2014 by brucemania

[Mihail the Just]

 

You have described half of the OWF discussion content as well. *chortles* Sometimes banter is just that.

 

Hahaha

[President S O]

Done for.

 

Good luck buddies

[Cortath]

Just so we are totally clear:
DS attacked Invicta out of the blue and without cause
SNX, who are Invicta's Aftermath blockmates, find themselves in conflict with DS
[b]You clowns[/b] then join in the DS/DBDC/Umbrella aggressive conflict against Aftermath.

I have been pretty much entirely out of the political loop for about a year now, and it takes about 5 seconds of looking stuff up to figure this out.

[b]Pacifica has chosen the wrong side.  Whether the other side wins or loses is irrelevant.  Pacifica loses no matter what.  Either you get your asses kicked by the people you just hit, or when the dust settles, Doomsphere is going to gleefully insert cold steel in your backsides.  You are the very definition of useful idiots.  [/b]

[b]So desperate for the faintest taste of your former glory, that you align with these total buffoons.[/b]  These morons who have made their intentions mind-blowingly clear, these creatures that have even attacked Pacifica's most "cherished" allies in opportunistic raids on the top tiers of anyone they feel like hitting.  Are you sure this is the world you want?  Are you positive?

 

You're not really in a good place when you just assume your opponents are total idiots.

 

I generally operate on the following set of principles: my opponents are at least as smart as I am. When I see them doing something stupid, I presume they either 1) have facts that I do not have, or I possess facts that they do not, or 2) they are operating on a different set of principles than I am. I do not choose 3) they are stupid and I am smart and I always win and they always lose.

[rileyaddaff]

Just out of curiosity, what alliances are in this "doomsphere" in which you speak?

Edited November 14, 2014 by rileyaddaff

[Maelstrom Vortex]

 

Hahaha

Made this one just for youuuu...

Edited November 14, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[mmansfield68]

@Hero: A world that burns is a world that is warm.

Build a man a fire, he will be warm for a day.

 

Set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life.  :)

 

[HeroofTime55]

 

Clowns .. Idiots .. buffooons .. been called that will be called that agian .. after all we are NPO and well we are used to it :)

You shouldn't be used to it.  You're a joke now.  People used to pee themselves with fear if you guys gave them a funny look.  Now they just pee themselves with laughter.

[kingzog]

Just out of curiosity, what alliances are in this "doomsphere" in which you speak?

 

You know, this is something I've been wondering as well. Is it merely those alliances directly allied with DBDC or Doom Squad? Does it include allies of allies, who are obviously part of some larger collusion?

 

Where does it end? Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

 

 

Build a man a fire, he will be warm for a day.

 

Set a man on fire he will be warm for the rest of his life.  :)

 

 

Indeed.

 

Kind them with killness.

Edited November 14, 2014 by kingzog

[The Zigur]

 

You're not really in a good place when you just assume your opponents are total idiots.

 

I generally operate on the following set of principles: my opponents are at least as smart as I am. When I see them doing something stupid, I presume they either 1) have facts that I do not have, or I possess facts that they do not, or 2) they are operating on a different set of principles than I am. I do not choose 3) they are stupid and I am smart and I always win and they always lose.

 

Have to admit good post

[Maelstrom Vortex]

You shouldn't be used to it.  You're a joke now.  People used to pee themselves with fear if you guys gave them a funny look.  Now they just pee themselves with laughter.

 

At least we get a reaction instead of being a bored stiff that has nothing better to do than exude negativity. You should go feel bad about yourself too.. just for being you..  :wub:

 

Also.. my fellow conspirators in the owf.. it seems this gentleman has implied you have weak bladder control. Is this true?

Edited November 14, 2014 by Maelstrom Vortex

[HeroofTime55]

 

You're not really in a good place when you just assume your opponents are total idiots.

 

I generally operate on the following set of principles: my opponents are at least as smart as I am. When I see them doing something stupid, I presume they either 1) have facts that I do not have, or I possess facts that they do not, or 2) they are operating on a different set of principles than I am. I do not choose 3) they are stupid and I am smart and I always win and they always lose.

There is a notion in sword fighting, what is more important than winning, is not losing.  If you kill your opponent, that's great, you win, but if you die in the process, you have also lost.

I don't presume to know what you were thinking or what secret information you think you have that gives you an edge.  I just know that you are wrong, and you are ignorant of the world around you, of the nature of the people you have made your bed with.  Pacifica is not the first alliance to make such gross misjudgements.  You certainly won't be the last.

And, I know this is a wild concept, but I can be critical of you without being your enemy.  Doesn't seem like we are currently at war.  Though we are still technically at war with DBDC.  The same folks who attacked your esteemed "allies" in TPF in a similar opportunistic attack.  And who you have made your bed with.

Man, I do remember when TPF used to have a pair of balls.  Missing those days, for sure.

[Lord Hershey]

Glad to see Pacificans participating in the battlefield that we happen to share. 

 

Hail NPO!

[brucemania]

You shouldn't be used to it.  You're a joke now.  People used to pee themselves with fear if you guys gave them a funny look.  Now they just pee themselves with laughter.

 

Well i am funny looking at you now trying to understand why i am not peeing myself laughing at your anger.  .. I guess then though you are speaking on behalf of Umbrella telling us that you know what is happening on our side? .. Or do you have this special talent that involves crystal balls and not real ones like us since we do take risks?

[HeroofTime55]

 

You know, this is something I've been wondering as well. Is it merely those alliances directly allied with DBDC or Doom Squad? Does it include allies of allies, who are obviously part of some larger collusion?

 

Where does it end? Just how deep does the rabbit hole go?

 

It strikes me as more of an alignment of mentality, the sort of alliances that in a bygone era were known as "lulz" alliances.  The troublemakers, the people with no regard for any standard of decency.

Pacifica certainly is not a part of the "doomsphere."  They think they're latching on to this group to slingshot themselves to their former heights.  History demonstrates this as a foolish endeavor.  If they cease to be opposed by "the other side," whoever that is, Polaris I suppose, I've not been keeping up very well and it's a somewhat foreign landscape to me at the moment, but I do know that once all other threats are removed (with the assistance of Pacifica), it is the Pacifican sphere which will be next on the chopping block.

It really is lunacy on the part of Pacifica to see this in any other light.