A Statement from Doomhouse

[neneko]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1300395804' post='2668134']
Honestly my guess is that one of the reasons(among many im sure) they are hesitant to trust MK revolves around Karma and how effectively Archon set NPO and others up in the beginning of that war thru, if not deceit, then misdirection. Hard to step out on the trust plank again after past histories of manipulation are present.

just my .02
[/quote]
Who were deceived or misdirected in karma by Archon?

[pezstar]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300396225' post='2668151']
Which makes no reference to future avenues, and only states that war will continue if an agreement is not reached (usually how these things go). However, while it does make it clear that the best looking terms NPO will get are that which are at debate, particularly when coupled with the OP, it doesn't justify a leap to the absolute most severe end of the war spectrum.
[/quote]

That's actually not what it says at all. It's a response to a specific question, regarding what happens if Pacifica rejects this offer with a follow up wondering about horrible reps, etc. The response, rather than meaning what you state it means, actually appears to mean that this is their offer, and if they want peace, they're going to have to do it. It reads like no one wants Pacifica's money or reps or anything like that. They just want to fight.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, I'm simply stating that the thing you've been saying wasn't said was absolutely said.

[pezstar]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300396499' post='2668161']
Who were deceived or misdirected in karma by Archon?
[/quote]

As someone who was in the high level coalition channels there, I feel comfortable saying no one was. There was no bait, there was no misdirection or deception. Folks were even willing to negotiate, and many were hoping things DID work out between OV and NPO.

It was NPO who cast the first stone in that situation, and they did so of their own accord.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300395928' post='2668140']
You're being blatantly stupid now, HoT. I know you're smarter than this. Keep up, son. THERE IS MORE THAN ONE SENTENCE LIKE THE ONE I QUOTED. Unless you [i]really[/i] think that Alterego is the only person in the world to create the only sentence in the world that is insulting someone else's intelligence, I suggest you read the OWF more often...especially your own posts.
[/quote]
But you only quoted one. You only gave one example. Thus, the word "these" is inappropriate, because it refers to multiple examples, which you did not give.

Let me try to break it down. It's like this:

[quote][quote]ODN[/quote]
I hate these alliances[/quote]

See the problem yet? Why that word doesn't fit? Only one alliance is given. One given example.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300396162' post='2668147']
Call them what you will. They are very simple terms to end the war.

You didn't address my point. Since it obviously went over your head I'll simplify it a bit for you. How is this situation different from any other war? If terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue. Hopefully we'll come to an agreement sometime before we hit eternity.
[/quote]
You obviously missed my point then, if you're just re-iterating what you said.

Though since you're begging for an answer to a question that you should already know the answer to, I'll humour you. First of all, the core situation is different to that in other wars because Doom House has declared an aggressive war against Pacifica with a flimsy cassus belli, at best. Secondly, you are actually making my point for me there; "if terms cannot be agreed upon the war will naturally continue". That is no different to VietFAN. Thirdly, you're really overdoing the eternity thing there, by the way. It's more like perma-war.


[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300396250' post='2668152']
There, I chopped your sentence down to actually be true.
[/quote]
I don't see what difference it makes, I'm still correct in my assertion.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300385275' post='2667894']
I find this talk of "trusting" the NPO front's word pretty ridiculous. The word trust invokes a lofty image of a greater sense of mutual understanding. That's not what going on here. Instead, Pacifica is being asked to take their word if given, a concept which is very distinct from trust in the fact that it's narrowly tailored to a specific circumstance. This is a common occurrence between parties that don't exactly trust each other, most notably in regards to peace terms. The defeated alliance has to take the victors word that violence against their nations will end by them meeting certain conditions. There is nothing here that differs from that structure simply because the matter is precursory.
[/quote]

why is trusting someone's word ridiculous particularly since there is an entire month in between where the agreement begins and the supposed peace comes about. Sure the defeated alliance has to take the victor's word that the war will end in any peace agreement but that is a peace agreement that is usually put into effect within 24 hours. This is 30 to 31 days of MK having to maintain their word. for regular peace, if after 24 hours the victor continues to launch attacks or new wars, then it is easy to see they have not upheld their word and most would not be happy bout it.

but i am sure MK could easily devise multiple ways of breaking their word over 30 days that would allow them to either continue the war or demand huge reps again. it appears that they are striving hard to utilize the NPO playbook so who is to say they simply won't pull another NPO move and state that NPO broke the agreement first (since they are modeling this after vietFAN after all...). so trust is a major factor in this kind of agreement. if MK is seen as completely untrustworthy, then why should NPO allow their upper tier nations to be utterly demolished (i provided the numbers like 15 -17 pages back or so) just to have MK continue this war a month later anyways? or have MK demand huge reparations from nations utterly destroyed and thus not only gain possibly longer than a year long surrender terms but also ensuring that NPO is crushed afterwords due to not being capable of rebuilding. it is entirely in NPO's favor to maintain the war as is particularly since i have detailed how MK's word means nothing below this post.

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300386025' post='2667918']
Already done.




That is a great argument as to why mk is the new npo it really is. My question was when we broke our word though.
[/quote]

first, where is the apology. i wanna read it.

second, considering MK fought against everything that NPO was back in the day, the fact that ya'll have become the new NPO shows the lie. for example, the Pre-emptive attack by TOP/co was heralded as one of the worst things in the world to being lauded [i]after[/i] MK does it to NPO. so that is lying. ya'll can state "it was just for realpolitick" but your words are your words. i doubt very much that "it was just for realpolitick" back then and only became such when MK was deciding to aggressively attack NPO. so this is typically considered to be lying.

ya'll considered what was done to FAN (particularly the come out of PM and fight for 2 rounds) to be quite tyrannical and yet ya'll doing it now. so again we can consider MK lying through their teeth.

Ya'll still get all upset over NPO arrogance and NPO-centric attitude, while continuously displaying your own arrogance and MK-centric attitude. From this, we again can consider MK lying. if it is so bad and evil, why would MK continue to engage in such practices?

again back in the day, the Might Makes Right attitude of the Initiative and Continuum were attacked by MK and now most of MK displays the very same attitude. So again, we can consider MK to be lying.

liars are inherently untrustworthy. Their word means absolutely nothing and the fact that NPO has to trust MK's word that after a month of them getting destroyed, ya'll will give them peace without terms instead of either continuing the war or demanding huge reps (again) is simply ridiculous. hell, i pointed out earlier in this thread where Ardus was lying about not wanting to annihilate NPO just gain satisfaction. So if MK cannot be trusted to not lie through their teeth, how can ya'll be trusted to keep your word? i mean even if ya'll were compulsive liars, then it would still mean your word is total rubbish and completely breakable.

[Antonio Salovega VI]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300390556' post='2668017']
Really? The best you could do was come up with a picture and some random commentary that has already been addressed and moved past two hours ago? Good job.

Perhaps it wasn't clear the other dozen or so times that it has been stated, so I will do so again, just for you:

I do not speak for the New Pacific Order or any other alliance in the Cyberverse.
I do not claim to hold any influence over any groups within the Cyberverse, in fact I claim quite the opposite and point out repeatedly that I am well aware that I am past my prime here and a non-factor.
I do not claim to be remorseful for the sake of remorse so that emo kids like you can get your jollies. I don't care what you think of me. I have never placed any concern whatsoever in the "feelings" of my enemies. You are my enemy for a reason, so why should I care about you?
I am arrogant and egotistical to the nth degree. I don't apologize for that either. I have maintained my same persona for nearly a decade in these realms and have no need to change it now. Again, I do not care what you think of me.

The fact that you feel the need to address me at all only speaks to your own deficiencies and insecurities. I have no guns. I have no soldiers. I have no tanks. I am a complete non-entity. And yet when I make valid points I can't get people to respond to them, instead they feel they need to attack my persona (and in some cases go outside the realms of the Cyberverse to do so) because they are ridiculously underprepared for even the most germane comment from someone like myself.

Regardless of all of this, my own actions have no bearing on the position of the New Pacific Order or the position of the NPO's diplomatic actions. To equate myself with Pacifica is an error. I once was the Order, but now I am just me, even if that ideological position has never shifted. The fact that I can say that definitively and without reservation should speak more to the changes that have taken place within the culture of Pacifica more so than any diplomatic envoy could ever convey.
[/quote]

Your denial notwithstanding, your and the orders are intrinsically connected. You do not fight in the orders defense because you cannot fight. That you helplessly continue to shake your impotent fist at your enemies while having disarmed your nation only proves that you value the member nations of the orders as little as you do your own nation. That special brand of cowardice is nothing for which you should be proud . . . and yet you are.

[quote name='Ryan Greenberg' timestamp='1300391112' post='2668028']


Really? That's the best you got? Not only is it 100% biased, but it is a pretty weak reasoning for a CB. You make GGA look like the god of finding great CB's
[/quote]

[IMG]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r160/qinqe/CN%20Graphics/AS6NPObutthurt.png[/IMG]

Really? That's the best fallacy you got? Not only is it 100% biased, but apparently you were so busy crafting your strawman that you failed to note that I did not say or even intimate anything about a CB.

I really do not care about a CB. It is of alsolutely no consequence to me. I'm just personally very pleased over the fact that NPO is once again getting stomped. I have for months said that NPO's leadership, from Clown Prince Chuckles to the lowly NCO has failed its member nations. It has remained arrogant, condescending and undisciplined. Only when the orders clean house and find itself new, strong leadership who are willing to make a course correction will it find acceptance in the civilized brotherhood of alliances.

[quote name='Biff Webster' timestamp='1300391378' post='2668035']
Nice sig. Here, you can take a break for the next month or so:
[/quote]

Biff, I now understand why you recruited me to do your alliance’s art work. I hope you are a better playwright than an artist.

[Beefspari]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300396653' post='2668165']
See the problem yet? Why that word doesn't fit? Only one alliance is given. One given example.
[/quote]
No, it was more that he said "these kinds of alliances," implying that ODN belongs to a group of people who represent a behavior, which other alliances would also fall under. For instance, a new joke alliance props up and you post in the thread, "I hate these kinds of alliances." Both ways of saying the phrase, in the context provided, are fine. Arguing over it is stupid, petty, and off-topic. So everyone should move on. That goes for both sides.

[Karolina]

[quote name='Hadrian' timestamp='1300396140' post='2668146']
Because they are not the white knights of some new era. They are lying through their teeth; they have zero intention of simply obtaining reparations from NPO and then doing nothing. No, ninety-nine point nine nine nine nine nine nine percent of DH wants the complete and utter destruction of Pacifica.

And when your enemy wants to destroy you, would you trust them?
[/quote]
Well firstly, I wouldn't assume something for which I had no evidence. You are. Secondly, I think it's been made quite clear that DH wants to have a full-on fight, which would cause great destruction to both sides. Why, then, would they lie about wanting [i]total[/i] destruction? It doesn't make sense. It's not logical. What they're offering isn't something small. If they had proposed something far smaller, than your suspicion would be justified, but that isn't the case here.

It just seems that the myth of DH's evilness has been built up to such a degree now that even the most normal inter-alliance interactions are being portrayed as some huge scheme. Until they actually break their own surrender terms, maybe we should just give them at least one chance, no?

[Jaiar]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300396225' post='2668151']
Which makes no reference to future avenues, and only states that war will continue if an agreement is not reached (usually how these things go). However, while it does make it clear that the best looking terms NPO will get are that which are at debate, particularly when coupled with the OP, it doesn't justify a leap to the absolute most severe end of the war spectrum.
[/quote]
If these are the best terms then I am more than willing to war for as long as it takes. My comrades being in peace mode doesn't bother me at all. It doesn't bother any of our small nations. It will be our leaders that decide what terms are acceptable. But they know for sure that all of us will fight for as long as it takes to secure a fair and right peace. Just as GOONs is being fed funds to fight at the lower tiers we too can fight using a few funds we gain from GOONs. I lose 10k in 3 straight battles, then a GOONs nation comes along and loses one battle and I win 200k, a net gain for my small nation. So not receiving aid like GOONs doesn't matter. We can continue to fight and gain enough loot from GOONs to pay our bills and keep the war on. We can do this all spring and summer and watch the seasons change. We are dug in in our foxholes.

To Doom House we say: NUTS!

Edited March 17, 2011 by Jaiar

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300382316' post='2667833']
It's this kind of attitude that leads to situations like the one NPO is in now, and should leave no question as to why they are where they are now. Perhaps if NPO had "given a damn" about the people they wronged then they wouldn't be in this situation.
[/quote]

Will you ever apologize for all the bad things you have done? It would take a long long post to cover them all, I just can not see you bothering cause you are not that kind of guy are you? OR have you ever been the slightest bit repentant for your past actions.

Cut the crap please, some of us actually know you.... all too well.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1300396397' post='2668158']
On the one hand, you're right.

On the other hand, having been in a position to ask myself and my alliance if we should trust Pacifica in a similar situation, I have a hard time sympathizing. I really wish I could, because we have a common ally and we're allegedly on the same "side", whatever that means these days, but I am having a hard time doing so. I don't think Pacifica deserved this war in this way, and I do think they deserved a chance to do something in the world for the first time in 2 years, but I'm still having a hard time feeling bad for them. Sorry.
[/quote]
And you are quite right. Why should anyone, who's been here for three or four years, trust Pacifica? But then again, why should anyone trust Doom House?

Edited March 17, 2011 by Hadrian

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1300387729' post='2667965']
This war isn't based on NPO "breaking terms" like NPO's second attack on FAN was.
[/quote]

no it is based on NPO not kissing ya'lls ass and Sir Paul's tabloid. much better reason...../sarcasm

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' timestamp='1300396010' post='2668141']
Is it your claim that cowardice is immoral?
[/quote]Perhaps not, but it isn't [i]fun[/i].

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1300396261' post='2668154']
HoT, I thought we talked about this. That's it, I'm putting you in timeout until you behave.
[/quote]

How about replying to the rest of my post.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300396074' post='2668144']
[s]So you declare an unprovoked and unjustified war of aggression against NPO for no good reason[/s], and then expect to charge them reps for their trouble? That is, if they won't let you completely break their entire alliance first, and even then you might decide that there is no reason to grant peace.

If this was at all about the Polar front, a front that is now closed, you would be offering this whole coalition white peace. The fact that you do not even offer that to Pacifica shows your real motive for this war, to conduct an opportunistic attack against Pacifica and her friends, an offensive born out of paranoia and hatred.

Who is to say if they accept any sort of terms, that you won't launch yet another unprovoked attack against them, after they've sent you money to help you rebuild? This is the problem with your entry strategy. There is no reason whatsoever that any of us should trust that you will hold your word, and therefore no reason that any of us should offer up anything in order to buy a peace that will not last.
[/quote]
I've even crossed out the parts you did, however poorly, respond to. Now tackle the rest, and enough of this misdirection bull!@#$.

[nippy]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300396653' post='2668165']
But you only quoted one. You only gave one example. Thus, the word "these" is inappropriate, because it refers to multiple examples, which you did not give.

Let me try to break it down. It's like this:



See the problem yet? Why that word doesn't fit? Only one alliance is given. One given example.
[/quote]

You're cracking me up here, son.

Okay, here...let me pose a ridiculous example for you, since you can't seem to abandon this hilarious line of thought Moldavi has presented as a possible tactic (yes, I know...you think everything he touches is gold):

Let's pick a subject...a car, perhaps? Okay, we're looking at a car. Are there cars like it? Who makes cars? Do the manufacturers of the cars design a car, build one of them, stop production, create an entirely new design, build one of them, stop production, continue on an endless loop? Of course not. Just as this one post wasn't the only one I've ever seen that insults someone's intelligence, neither would this one car we're looking at be the only car of its kind.

Get it yet?

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1300397041' post='2668176']
Perhaps not, but it isn't [i]fun[/i].
[/quote]

You feel that you're in a position, morally, to attempt to force people to have fun in certain ways that you approve of?

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1300397072' post='2668178']
You're cracking me up here, son.

Okay, here...let me pose a ridiculous example for you, since you can't seem to abandon this hilarious line of thought Moldavi has presented as a possible tactic (yes, I know...you think everything he touches is gold):

Let's pick a subject...a car, perhaps? Okay, we're looking at a car. Are there cars like it? Who makes cars? Do the manufacturers of the cars design a car, build one of them, stop production, create an entirely new design, build one of them, stop production, continue on an endless loop? Of course not. Just as this one post wasn't the only one I've ever seen that insults someone's intelligence, neither would this one car we're looking at be the only car of its kind.

Get it yet?
[/quote]
By this point, I have better things to do than argue grammar with an illiterate. If breaking it down to the most basic level can't help you, nothing can. No point in further wasting my time on a hopeless cause.

[Jens of the desert]

Doesn't this thread just prove there are very few blocs/sides worth putting your faith in as a paragon of virtue with just intentions at heart? I came to that resolution maybe a year or two after Karma, but I'm suprised that so many of you are acting shocked by this and hadn't come to the same realisation as I, earlier...

Wake up guys.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1300387816' post='2667966']
Oh come now, you know at least a little something about me and know very well I have a concept of context, so no need for the standard "well I wouldn't expect [i]youuuu [/i]to know about x" owf line. Anyway, I have faith that you also know very well that the link you provided is far out of field. Are you suggesting that NPO should assume they will be screwed in the present because they already lost a war in the past? That makes no sense. The process in question existed far before that link and has persisted far after, and has been running strong all throughout this war. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that it will be any different here, and the fact that the best thing you can find to say otherwise is an attempted loose correlation framed only around the words "war" and "loosing" only adds credence to that point.

Furthermore, MK and FAN aside, two of the alliances on the NPO front are members of PB, and I can tell you there is absolutely no way in hell they will go back on any definitive affirmation given.
[/quote]

okay, so after a month, Umbrella and GOONS peace out. by that time, MK could easily handle NPO on their own.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1300388040' post='2667973']
I believe it is, but whether it is or not is irrelevant to the point I was making.
[/quote]

your point was that FAN had no reason to trust NPO. you attacked NPO for absolutely no reason. why should MK be trusted? so i would say it is completely relevant.

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1300388610' post='2667979']
It wasn't unprovoked, there was plenty of posturing on their part in the months before the war and between NpO being attacked and the preemptive strike. Nor had they surrendered to any of the alliances in Karma that are attacking them this war.

This war has no direct relation to Karma.
[/quote]

Since Archon's signature is on that surrender, MK did in fact partake in NPO's surrender. otherwise, once i become gov, i can't wait to state that i don't speak for my alliance at all unless i officially state i am. that would be awesome since i tend to shy away from gov positions due to my loud mouth. but hey, if Archon does not speak for MK as the ultimate leader of MK, then i as a mere gov member would surely not speak for DT. awesome.

also, if ya'll gonna attempt this, then there damn well never be any MK !@#$ over a gov member of another alliance doing a damn thing to MK regardless of what it is. i better never hear MK stating "you are gov, you speak for your alliance" ever again. though i doubt that would actually happen which simply showcases how MK is simply a bunch of liars and how their word cannot be trusted in the slightest.

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1300396557' post='2668162']
That's actually not what it says at all. It's a response to a specific question, regarding what happens if Pacifica rejects this offer with a follow up wondering about horrible reps, etc. The response, rather than meaning what you state it means, actually appears to mean that this is their offer, and if they want peace, they're going to have to do it.[b] It reads like no one wants Pacifica's money or reps or anything like that. They just want to fight.[/b]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, I'm simply stating that the thing you've been saying wasn't said was absolutely said.
[/quote]

I agree with the bold actually, but draw a different conclusion. "The war will continue until they agree to the term" hardly says anything about possible future alternatives, which, I believe, is why any sort of hard line statement on that aspect of things was left out of the OP, where it easily could have been included and probably would be to their benefit if that is their intent. In any war, once an offer is made fighting continues until that offer is agreed to...or another offer (usually worse) is made in its place. The fact that they don't want reps and simply just want to fight and win points to them not [i]wanting [/i]to have to make another offer anywhere down the line, not to them having the steadfast, unbreakable intent to hold Pacifica in eternal war.

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1300342205' post='2667284']
You sir are a moron. Educate yourself on what happened then come back and apologize.
[/quote]

Is there a place where all of us who aren't in on the OOC knowledge side of things can go to become educated? Although HoT's comments were no worth making on their face (and the lack of Moo's comments getting made fun of by the usual turds should have been a tip-off), it seems unfair to get upset about his ignorance regarding something that's deliberately kept secret.

[JT Jag]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' timestamp='1300397195' post='2668179']
You feel that you're in a position, morally, to attempt to force people to have fun in certain ways that you approve of?
[/quote]No. I can say, objectively, in a factual matter, without any moral bent, that having one side barricaded in peace mode and the other side idly siegeing it just isn't much fun for either side. Simply in terms of entertainment, a month of war and getting back to business would be beneficial to both sides.

[Hadrian]

[quote name='Karolina' timestamp='1300396901' post='2668171']
Well firstly, I wouldn't assume something for which I had no evidence. You are. Secondly, I think it's been made quite clear that DH wants to have a full-on fight, which would cause great destruction to both sides. Why, then, would they lie about wanting [i]total[/i] destruction? It doesn't make sense. It's not logical. What they're offering isn't something small. If they had proposed something far smaller, than your suspicion would be justified, but that isn't the case here.

It just seems that the myth of DH's evilness has been built up to such a degree now that even the most normal inter-alliance interactions are being portrayed as some huge scheme. Until they actually break their own surrender terms, maybe we should just give them at least one chance, no?[/quote]
It's HARDLY an assumption without evidence! Have you not heard some of what comes out of the mouths of Doom House employees and employers? [i]Seriously[/i]...

Again, you're making my argument up for me. Look here:

"I think it's been made quite clear that DH wants to have a full-on fight" - you.

"NPO must come out of peace mode, fight for a month, and then surrender with no terms" - from OP.

Now, if Doom House wants a full-on fight, why would they make that up at all? "Surrender with no terms"? What kind of !@#$%^&* is that?

The move is nothing more than a deceitful act designed to drag NPO out of peace mode.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Antonio Salovega VI' timestamp='1300396839' post='2668169']
Your denial notwithstanding, your and the orders are intrinsically connected. You do not fight in the orders defense because you cannot fight. That you helplessly continue to shake your impotent fist at your enemies while having disarmed your nation only proves that you value the member nations of the orders as little as you do your own nation. That special brand of cowardice is nothing for which you should be proud . . . and yet you are.
[/quote]
That is a bit of a reach don't you think?

I have a nation so I can post here. I have never been on at consecutive updates and have never understood the basic mechanics of the Cyberverse. Somewhat for lack of effort, but mostly from lack of time. When I have had a nation worth any level of substance it has been rogue attacked relentless in times of peace, still making it castrated during times of war.

Every member of the Order has value. Some have logistic and strategic gifts that I can not comprehend. Some are graphic artists that make images in minutes that I couldn't do in months. Some are great writers and some are good with the national financial structures. And some are good at dying. Those are the most valuable parts of the Order. They always have been. I count myself lucky to be able to stand in the same room as any soldier of Pacifica or any of the other Orders because to me leadership means service and service means sacrifice.

Now, I have a certain level of charisma and can on occasion wordsmith paltry statements of encouragement and support. My gift to the Orders has always been my loud obnoxious mouth. It has caused the Orders grief, but it has also bolstered their successes. In this realm and others I am a natural leader. I know how to fit people into specific roles that gain success because of their collective effort. I have never claimed victory for myself alone, even when others threw it at my feet.

Me waving my impotent fist here on this stage at this time is the only gift I have for Pacifica. It is the only gift I have ever had for them truly. And it is still effective on the home-front, even if some here would mock or disparage it. My nation might be disarmed, but my blood still runs with the cold resolve of Order.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Ivan Moldavi