Branimir Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296685445' post='2616619'] Do you really believe they've changed even a little or do you just pretend to since you think you'll be on the orders good side the next time around? [/quote] Well if MK can change, I think we can too :colbert: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulmar Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1296627692' post='2615787'] This peace agreement is far too short. Yay peace? I think. Maybe. I'll post my feelings on this on page 12 [/quote] [quote name='Trinite' timestamp='1296674074' post='2616412'] Yay page 12. Democracy sucks, and I certainly wouldn't have left the fun this early, but this isn't GATO's war. Good luck with the peace and everything. [/quote] I appreciate the commitment good sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296685445' post='2616619'] Do you really believe they've changed even a little or do you just pretend to since you think you'll be on the orders good side the next time around? [/quote] The former. I was staunchly against both Orders (red and blue) for years because of what they did. Then we had that big war to correct their behavior and they made a major shift in policy, no wars, limited treaties, and their members (like the one above) are saying the right things. Ok, maybe I'm being played for a fool, but as of right now, [I]they are saying the right things[/I]. I supported all of what they're now saying and more before they changed their tune and I continue supporting it now. I could care less about being on the Order's good side, or anyone else's for that matter, but I am glad they're finally on [b]mine[/b] after so many years. Just as I'm saddened that you guys left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiccan high priest Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Venizelos' timestamp='1296637774' post='2615990'] This was a good outcome. btw, wasn't it obvious from the beginning that GATO's allies would get white peace? [/quote] actually NO it wasn't obvious just because RIA will/could give white peace to IAA it does not mean iFOK will not/could not ask for mass amounts of insane reps like (insert alliance name here did). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296684842' post='2616608'] - NPO, 2011 You guys sure changed your tune quickly when you were no longer able to do this to others. I wonder how long it'll take to change back if you ever get any power again. [/quote] Quoted to point out the irony in a MK member talking of "changing tunes." Oh and I nearly forgot to congratulate IAA for breaking up with GATO finally. I'm sure you all see them for the worthless and cowardly alliance that they are now. Edited February 2, 2011 by Corinan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wad of Lint Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296684842' post='2616608'] - NPO, 2011 You guys sure changed your tune quickly when you were no longer able to do this to others. I wonder how long it'll take to change back if you ever get any power again. [/quote] Oh! Perhaps this is the change you claimed never happened in your declaration! Amazing what you'll find when you open your eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1296688100' post='2616647'] Oh! Perhaps this is the change you claimed never happened in your declaration! Amazing what you'll find when you open your eyes. [/quote] Maybe I missed the part where I said they've actually undergone any change. In the post you quoted I actually said the exact opposite of that. Reading comprehension is your friend, try to get along you two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtamdraugr Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 Again, it has devolved into a discussion about the past... get over yourselves, folks. I was not around for the "evil of the orders", have been quite content lately (except for the Grub thing). Hails for the fun to our allies and friends on whatever side they are one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wad of Lint Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296688404' post='2616649'] Maybe I missed the part where I said they've actually undergone any change. In the post you quoted I actually said the exact opposite of that. Reading comprehension is your friend, try to get along you two. [/quote] I marvel at the rhetoric used by you and others. Any change NPO makes will always be "temporary" in your eyes. Even if it lasts four years. Anything else would disable your capacity to !@#$%* and moan. The rest of us couldn't be so lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='Wad of Lint' timestamp='1296688691' post='2616656'] I marvel at the rhetoric used by you and others. Any change NPO makes will always be "temporary" in your eyes. Even if it lasts four years. Anything else would disable your capacity to !@#$%* and moan. The rest of us couldn't be so lucky. [/quote] You misunderstand I don't think NPO have undergone any temporary change at all. I think they !@#$%* and moan about how immoral reps are because it fits their current position. One change I do enjoy seeing though is how the siths have embraced the "people can change" attitude and are now a beacon of morality and forgiveness on bob. I'm glad you dumped that silly peace is a lie sith stuff. Nobody really liked that anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corinan Posted February 2, 2011 Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296688929' post='2616659'] I'm glad you dumped that silly peace is a lie sith stuff. [/quote] What's so silly about it? Your alliance has proven it to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xiphosis Posted February 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2011 [quote]There's also the fact that not securing it from GOD, who are rather clear on their stance on reps, means that they won't likely receive white peace at all, but that's another matter. [/quote] This is true, however I will point out that the only other front GOD is on at this time is UPN, who is not a GATO ally. I find it very unlikely we'll be consulted for IAA, and even if we are, I have no hard feelings for them. We have given white peace in similar circumstances, and as the one who wrote the OP I'd just like to say that it's not fluff - I meant it. GATO/IAA were [psuedo]allies not long ago, and for all my feelings for our traditional enemies, I'm not so blind as to extend the feelings of slash, maim, burn to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rol20kid Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='Sir Sci' timestamp='1296629234' post='2615854'] For the record, this decision is not universally supported by the entire GATO membership. Such is the beauty of democracy. EDIT: For grammar. [/quote] well o/ democracy ...i guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan100 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Congrats to both alliances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296688929' post='2616659'] You misunderstand I don't think NPO have undergone any temporary change at all. I think they !@#$%* and moan about how immoral reps are because it fits their current position. One change I do enjoy seeing though is how the siths have embraced the "people can change" attitude and are now a beacon of morality and forgiveness on bob. I'm glad you dumped that silly peace is a lie sith stuff. Nobody really liked that anyway. [/quote] That NPO has changed is simply an objective observation of reality, devoid of any ideology. That you, and people that share your espoused view, are either in incredible denial or are simply attempting to deny reality to further a political goal is just another objective observation. As for your second point, I find it a bit confusing that you claim to dislike our ideology, when your own alliance has taken it to a much further extreme than we have ever been able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1296705235' post='2616948'] That NPO has changed is simply an objective observation of reality, devoid of any ideology. That you, and people that share your espoused view, are either in incredible denial or are simply attempting to deny reality to further a political goal is just another objective observation. As for your second point, I find it a bit confusing that you claim to dislike our ideology, when your own alliance has taken it to a much further extreme than we have ever been able to. [/quote] How could it be an objective observation when NPO haven't been in a position where they could reinstate their old routines? I never claimed to dislike the ideology itself I just never thought it fit your alliance very well. I'm glad you've finally embraced your true calling as moralists though. It fits you a lot better and all that whining noise coming from your general direction at any given time makes more sense this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296705548' post='2616959'] How could it be an objective observation when NPO haven't been in a position where they could reinstate their old routines? I never claimed to dislike the ideology itself I just never thought it fit your alliance very well. I'm glad you've finally embraced your true calling as moralists though. It fits you a lot better and all that whining noise coming from your general direction at any given time makes more sense this way. [/quote] You really have a hard time dealing with a reality that isn't what you want to see, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296705548' post='2616959'] How could it be an objective observation when NPO haven't been in a position where they could reinstate their old routines? [/quote] A change is a change whether it is forced or not. I think it would be easier to debate the NPO's possible relapse if we could get out of this mindset that what they did for the past couple of years wasn't a change from their previous behaviors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1296706212' post='2616972'] A change is a change whether it is forced or not. I think it would be easier to debate the NPO's possible relapse if we could get out of this mindset that what they did for the past couple of years wasn't a change from their previous behaviors. [/quote] I'm not saying they've forced a change though. I'm saying that they're paying lip service. As for the "several years" I'm not sure where you place the start of this change you can apparently see. Did it start a year or two before karma? [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1296705951' post='2616964'] You really have a hard time dealing with a reality that isn't what you want to see, don't you? [/quote] I think you might need to look up the word "objective" somewhere. I suggest a thesaurus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordliam Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 A sterling bunch. It has been an honour fighting you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='Heft' timestamp='1296705235' post='2616948'] That NPO has changed is simply an objective observation of reality, devoid of any ideology. [/quote] This is comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296707023' post='2616991'] I'm not saying they've forced a change though. I'm saying that they're paying lip service.[/quote] They have been a drastically different alliance since the Karma War. This is a change. [quote] As for the "several years" I'm not sure where you place the start of this change you can apparently see. Did it start a year or two before karma? [/quote] Careful with those quote marks. No one said several years. [quote] I think you might need to look up the word "objective" somewhere. I suggest a thesaurus. [/quote] Says the person that can't even admit that the NPO's behavior post-Karma was drastically different than pre-Karma... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1296710264' post='2617150'] They have been a drastically different alliance since the Karma War. This is a change. [/quote] No they have been paying lip service. The only change I could agree that they've undergone is that they're powerless to actually do what they did before at the moment. That's more of a change outside of their alliance though. [quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1296710264' post='2617150'] Careful with those quote marks. No one said several years. [/quote] My bad. Could you explain where the couple of years came from then? That would still place the change well before karma. [quote name='Ragashingo' timestamp='1296710264' post='2617150'] Says the person that can't even admit that the NPO's behavior post-Karma was drastically different than pre-Karma... [/quote] I'm not claiming that my view on this is any kind of objective truth so I don't see your point here. You might want to join Heft at the library if you thought you actually made a valid point there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragashingo Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='neneko' timestamp='1296710924' post='2617175'] No they have been paying lip service. The only change I could agree that they've undergone is that they're powerless to actually do what they did before at the moment. That's more of a change outside of their alliance though.[/quote] You agreed it was a change, good enough for me. We'll work on the rest later. [quote] My bad. Could you explain where the couple of years came from then? That would still place the change well before karma.[/quote] Karma ended in July 09ish right? This is 011. We're closer to two years than one at this point, unless I'm doing the math horribly wrong. [quote] I'm not claiming that my view on this is any kind of objective truth so I don't see your point here. You might want to join Heft at the library if you thought you actually made a valid point there. [/quote] I think the point was that even a forced change in behavior caused by a multi-month long war is a change no matter how you or I feel about NPO, the war, or any of it. Edited February 3, 2011 by Ragashingo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordliam Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 [quote name='Darth Andrew' timestamp='1296627566' post='2615782'] I wish. I really do. [/quote] As much as I love IAA, there's no practical way of defending an alliance that is hell-bent on destroying itself, from itself. I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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