Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296455374' post='2612559'] And thus the argument is closed. If the evidence for objective morality is non-existent and dependent on belief, then your OP is irrelevant, and even the rulers who believe in objective morality have no reason to. Edit: typo. [/quote] My OP makes an appeal to the Morality of the Major Faiths, and doesn't mention objective morality. Each faith differs on what it believes is moral to a degree but they all share some common ground. One of these is in the area of aggression. That said, no the argument is not closed. I was also responding to you personally.. not to the world as a whole. Discovering what you perceive to be moral is going to be based by the faith you choose. In our case it has been Christianity. However, Objective Morality can only be defined by an Almighty God. That said if you want to find it you would seek it in God's word. Each religion however differs on what they believe is God's(s') word, but they tend to share commonalities. By the standards of most major world religions, the actions of Doom House are.. and remain.. defined as evil. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296455240' post='2612554'] When God wrote the rules of reality he could have defined good or evil however he chose. He chose the way he now governs us by. [/quote] Does God command the good because it is good, or is it good because it is commanded by God? [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296455550' post='2612563'] My OP makes an appeal to the Morality of the Major Faiths, and doesn't mention objective morality. [/quote] Very well then, unless you're prepared to provide some evidence for the existence of objective morality (which you've said is impossible) then we must assume that morality is subjective. If morality is subjective, Doomhouse can behave however it wants. Why should they care about your views of what is right or wrong? They're simply your views, which (in this scenario) are likely held to further your agenda. In this instance, this seems all the more likely given your alliance's history of tyranny and oppression. Furthermore, as I have already pointed out, the vast majority of people on these forums don't have a religious faith. The demographics mean little, because, as I have already pointed out, most rulers set their national religions to whatever the people want, in order to make them happier, in order to make more revenue, but don't hold to those beliefs themselves. [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296455550' post='2612563'] By the standards of most major world religions, the actions of Doom House are.. and remain.. defined as evil. [/quote] Yes, you said that in the OP. Can you please provide evidence to back it up? The Bible also has numerous verses about justice, i.e. killing !@#$%^&* because they are !@#$%^&* is a good thing. The Qu'ran is similar. Edited January 31, 2011 by Kalasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296456582' post='2612608'] Does God command the good because it is good, or is it good because it is commanded by God? [/quote] I realise others may not agree, because they do not have the same faith, but this is not a part of this discussion specifically aimed at them. That said.. God is Good. Therefore he defines what Good is. He is the incarnation of the meaning of righteous in its distilled essence. [quote] Very well then, unless you're prepared to provide some evidence for the existence of objective morality (which you've said is impossible) then we must assume that morality is subjective. If morality is subjective, Doomhouse can behave however it wants. Why should they care about your views of what is right or wrong? They're simply your views, which (in this scenario) are likely held to further your agenda. In this instance, this seems all the more likely given your alliance's history of tyranny and oppression. Furthermore, as I have already pointed out, the vast majority of people on these forums don't have a religious faith. The demographics mean little, because, as I have already pointed out, most rulers set their national religions to whatever the people want, in order to make them happier, in order to make more revenue, but don't hold to those beliefs themselves. [/quote] That's where science fails. Proving or disproving the unprovable. You're asking me to tell you if Shrodinger's cat is dead or not and I cannot observe inside the box. Only faith can tell you the answer. When you have evidence that Objective Morality cannot or does not exist, get back to me. Then we'll have a real discussion. A true Scientist would evaluate this as an irresolvable matter which by all observations indicates there is no Objective Morality, but recognizes the limits of his or her perceptions may not give him an accurate gauge of fact. [quote] Yes, you said that in the OP. Can you please provide evidence to back it up? The Bible also has numerous verses about justice, i.e. killing !@#$%^&* because they are !@#$%^&* is a good thing. The Qu'ran is similar. [/quote] We have done nothing since 2009 to merit aggression and we have reformed and paid for our crimes. We have purged ourselves of our iniquities and again, by most faiths.. the acts of Doom House against us are evil. Unless of course, you.. as a Christian, do not believe in repentance or forgiveness. I would have to do additional research on the tenets of other specific faiths if you wished me to directly address them.. but most of them have some form of method by which the 'unclean' can be made whole. The last war was very much a baptism by fire. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296440506' post='2611853'] As defined by most of the world's holy books.. they are evil. [/quote] oh even better. How long until you start referring to Archon as The Great Satan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296460352' post='2612703'] oh even better. How long until you start referring to Archon as The Great Satan? [/quote] I don't have to. He's already proclaimed himself Alluarchon.. that already makes him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 When did he actually do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296460352' post='2612703'] oh even better. How long until you start referring to Archon as The Great Satan? [/quote] Technically speaking, would the correct usage be to call MK the Great Satan? It's kinda catchy, actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1296460805' post='2612711'] When did he actually do that? [/quote] When declaring on the CCC and Via Tamerlane and his other cultists: Here's the Dec: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97694&view=findpost&p=2597965 Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuzaki Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296460916' post='2612713'] When declaring on the CCC and Via Tamerlane and his other cultists: Here's the Dec: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97694&view=findpost&p=2597965 [/quote] Notice who is posting that declaration of war? Also since when did the statements of Mushroom Kingdom members become equivalent to Archon himself saying something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296460514' post='2612706'] I don't have to. He's already proclaimed himself Alluarchon.. that already makes him that. [/quote] um... I hate to be the one to break this to you, but.... muslims don't actually worship satan. I know that will come as quite a shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296467408' post='2612787'] um... I hate to be the one to break this to you, but.... muslims don't actually worship satan. I know that will come as quite a shock. [/quote] But if they don't worship my god, then what else could they possibly worship?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lamuella' timestamp='1296467408' post='2612787'] um... I hate to be the one to break this to you, but.... muslims don't actually worship satan. I know that will come as quite a shock. [/quote] Mushqaeda is not muslim, it is mushlim. A fridge (not fringe) cult that worships the dark deity Allarchon and wishes to forcibly convert innocent Christians and conduct a holocaust of Pacificans. [ooc] We don't think they are all rl Satanists, but when they post something like that, the least they can expect is some roleplay in return. Seeing as that thing disgusted quite a number of people, they're getting off light here.[/ooc] Edited January 31, 2011 by Letum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296470335' post='2612825'] Mushqaeda is not muslim, it is mushlim. A fridge (not fringe) cult that worships the dark deity Allarchon and wishes to forcibly convert innocent Christians and conduct a holocaust of Pacificans. [ooc] We don't think they are all rl Satanists, but when they post something like that, the least they can expect is some roleplay in return. Seeing as that thing disgusted quite a number of people, they're getting off light here.[/ooc] [/quote] I'm sure they appreciate your mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296447189' post='2612024'] What does the number of nations have to do with anything? Having a larger amount of people on None doesn't really make up for years of forceful oppression. [/quote] There are a few thousand fewer nations on None than there were at the start of the Karma War. Since Karma's victory, tens of thousands of nations have abandoned Bob, never to be seen again. Most were in an alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 you're committing the fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voodoo Nova Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296477520' post='2612903'] There are a few thousand fewer nations on None than there were at the start of the Karma War. Since Karma's victory, tens of thousands of nations have abandoned Bob, never to be seen again. Most were in an alliance. [/quote] Not every nation created in this world will be successful in this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louisa Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296477520' post='2612903'] There are a few thousand fewer nations on None than there were at the start of the Karma War. Since Karma's victory, tens of thousands of nations have abandoned Bob, never to be seen again. Most were in an alliance. [/quote] Then again: [quote name='supercoolyellow' timestamp='1296173870' post='2606332'] 1/23/2011 20,371 players 1/24/2011 20,438 players [color="#00FF00"](+67)[/color] 1/25/2011 20,477 players [color="#00FF00"](+35) (+102)[/color] overall 1/26/2011 20,504 players [color="#00FF00"](+27) (+ 129)[/color] overall 1/27/2011 20,559 players [color="#00FF00"](+55) (+184)[/color] overall [/quote] Things are looking up, clearly the Great Allarchon is Blessing this world and making it fruitful! Drive out the naysayers, for they are probably Pacifican heathens refusing to see the State of Grace before their very eyes (repent!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1296477520' post='2612903'] There are a few thousand fewer nations on None than there were at the start of the Karma War. Since Karma's victory, tens of thousands of nations have abandoned Bob, never to be seen again. Most were in an alliance. [/quote] Would you please remind me about the nature of the relationship between causality and correlation, because I seem to have forgotten it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamuella Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 OOC: the number of people playing this game has fallen dramatically since Barack Obama became president, whereas during the presidency of George W Bush it experienced a vast increase! Clearly democratic presidents are bad for the cyberverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 We must fight to appease the Gods of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Louisa' timestamp='1296484216' post='2612971'] Then again: Things are looking up, clearly the Great Allarchon is Blessing this world and making it fruitful! Drive out the naysayers, for they are probably Pacifican heathens refusing to see the State of Grace before their very eyes (repent!). [/quote] Welcome to our family, brother (sister?). The ranks of the faithful swell with converts to Mushlam from beyond the walls of the Mushroom Kingdom. Allarchon on high! [img]http://thecastlehall.com/boards/Smileys/kickass/smugladen.png[/img] [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1296500449' post='2613206'] We must fight to appease the Gods of war. [/quote] A member of the Southern Infidelegation would spew nonsense such as this. Allarchon will deal with you in due time. Edited January 31, 2011 by tamerlane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak47don Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1296500449' post='2613206'] We must fight to appease the Gods of war. [/quote] Death to you, Southern scum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296460916' post='2612713'] When declaring on the CCC and Via Tamerlane and his other cultists: Here's the Dec: [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97694&view=findpost&p=2597965"]http://forums.cybern...dpost&p=2597965[/url] [/quote] lol people taking that declaration that seriously. I'm pretty sure CCC is taking it in better strides than you are. It's amusing how hard you're digging. OOC: Next we'll have someone comparing us Hitler. Oh wait, [img]http://i.imgur.com/lV7W6.png[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamerlane Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296470335' post='2612825'] Mushqaeda is not muslim, it is mushlim. A fridge (not fringe) cult that worships the dark deity Allarchon and wishes to forcibly convert innocent Christians and conduct a holocaust of Pacificans. [ooc] We don't think they are all rl Satanists, but when they post something like that, the least they can expect is some roleplay in return. Seeing as that thing disgusted quite a number of people, they're getting off light here.[/ooc] [/quote] You are all infidels and you will all suffer the death animals, like the infidel, deserve. For you to dare call our Lord "dark" is for you to sign your own death warrant. Our jihad discriminates against no one religion for all are inferior to the righteous path we Mushlims walk beside our Lord, Allarchon. Mushreich, Mushroom Kommune, and the Southern Delegation have all been put on notice of our intent to convert them to our faith and sporadic violence has stemmed from such issue with Allarchon eventually stepped in to dissuade us from our righteous cause, his cause. [ooc]I'll ask you to leave our RL faith out of your OOC characterizations of our IC characters. Please let me know if thats too much to ask from you.[/ooc] [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296460514' post='2612706'] I don't have to. He's already proclaimed himself Alluarchon.. that already makes him that. [/quote] (pssstt... no he hasn't) Those nails gotta be getting pretty bloody by now cuz you diggin real hard, Pacifican dog. Your disgusting attempt to deface our faith by slandering the one true God of Planet Bob will be your undoing. Allarchon lives and He will see to it that the foundations of your faith crumble beneath your feet as you fall into eternal hellfire. Death to you, infidel. ALLARCHONU AKBAR! Edited January 31, 2011 by tamerlane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 This thread really took a turn for the dumb. All I can say is that if your religion [i]really[/i] says that attacking alliances for not very much is evil, what the heck are you doing with an alliance seniority in NPO of June 2008? Since you joined, you've attacked FAN, GPA and GATO and supported allies in many other 'evil' wars. Throughout 2008 there were plenty of places a committed moralist could have gone to fight the good fight. The fact you were happy to be in NPO during that time proves conclusively that you don't really believe what you're saying, and this whole thing is a PR stunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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