Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [quote]This document is for all those of faith who believe that your moral principles hold influence over your governance and relations here. Evil has made itself known on Bob, and it is Doomhouse. How can we recognize it as evil? Almost all religions condemn aggression without reason.. war and hate without cause. Evil seeks to tear down, not to build up. Evil seeks to take you into the same hell it has created for itself so that it has company in its misery. While it can be argued that the New Pacific Order, my motherland, has been cause for great strife and that strife is reason for what is occurring now.. this argument is invalid in light of the blood that was shed during the great war of Karma in which we paid the greatest cost ever for those atrocities which we had committed in the past. Some of us paid these costs.. even though we were only a few months old in our alliance and not partakers in the deeds to which others would hold us accountable. Innocent blood was shed to purify this order.. and to reform it. Since Karma, we have reformed ourselves into a force of growth. A force of fairness. A force of tolerance and of peace. We have harmed none and sought to be part of no aggression until the attacks by Doomhouse which were forced upon ourselves. Having purged ourselves of our iniquities during the 'great appeasement', paying for them in full and in good standing with all involved.. we have since been innocent of shedding any blood by wrongful action. That said, we are innocent.. and if you are of faith in religions that support a doctrine to protect the innocent from aggression and to avenge the actions of the unjust, then you are bound to help us in this cause, or question the validity of your fervor for your deity. That said, those of you who are of Doomhouse and feel your faith has any meaning in your life and governance here upon Bob. Now is the time to surrender to us. Cite that you cannot tolerate the moral ills of your alliance and come to us and help us to force them into peace. If you actively resist them with us, all actions up to that point to harm us shall be forgiven. If you do not you will be worthy of the same sentence they are rendered when the time does come, and it will.. it is inevitable. Those of you who are not of Doomhouse and feel your faith again has any meaning or relevance to your governance here upon Bob. Now is the time to call to the righteous side. Stand with the innocent in this matter and make it known that such actions of bullying and attempts to end this beautiful planet of ours will not go without justice. In the end, we will seek to be more benevolent than we were treated when we were humbled in Karma. I will say this and nothing more. My OP stands, simple as it is, no matter how others may attempt to distort it. May their words justify my assessment. [/quote] Edit: Minor spelling touch up/grammar correct. Document complete. Edited January 29, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 It's beyond good and evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [font="Tahoma"]You make a series of claims that are disingenuous at best and outright lies at worst. Your claims, being that somehow Pacifica has reformed itself into a new entity preaching peace, fairness, and growth...What evidence do you have to back this assertion up? What exactly has Pacifica done in the past year to demonstrate your reformation into a glorious beacon of hope for the broken and downtrodden? Their isn't any, you've simply sat in isolation slowly retying yourselves with the remaining bottom feeders from your old Hegemony. You've had no real friends, extended very few branches of friendship, and have relegated your Order to nothing more then a ticking-time bomb; opting to wait for us to slip so you may retake your throne rather then taking it yourselves. This position of convenience would not be adopted if you hard the hard and soft power projection to press your claims. Quit trying to project this image of a reformed Pacifica; anyone with half a brain will see through these blatant attempts at setting yourselves up as some sort of martyr for the "moralists" of Planet Bob.[/font] [font="Tahoma"]Furthermore, this idea that we are truly attempting to "end" this Planet is laughable. Clearly your incapable of seeing hyperbole when it's used to poke fun at the world. But I suppose when you have so little to stand on one must grab at whatever scraps of land left to hang onto. Now you've stated that you do not wish to respond to any further statements of opposition. Truly, should you believe all your views then come at me bro'. I'd love to dismantle your propaganda some more, for the terrible attempts at victimization and mustering of PR support for your fledgling cause.[/font] [font="Tahoma"](OOC - I assume your usage of Faith & Religion is more to make this seen as an IC friendly?)[/font] Edited January 29, 2011 by Owned-You Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banksy Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 This planet would be better if everyone was like the GPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Ha, NPO calling someone evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296272419' post='2608425'] Their isn't any, you've simply sat in isolation slowly retying yourselves with the remaining bottom feeders from your old Hegemony. You've had no real friends, extended very few branches of friendship, and have relegated your Order to nothing more then a ticking-time bomb; opting to wait for us to slip so you may retake your throne rather then taking it yourselves. This position of convenience would not be adopted if you hard the hard and soft power projection to press your claims. Quit trying to project this image of a reformed Pacifica; anyone with half a brain will see through these blatant attempts at setting yourselves up as some sort of martyr for the "moralists" of Planet Bob. [/quote] Let me direct you to this mirror: [quote] [b]You make a series of claims that are disingenuous at best and outright lies at worst.....What evidence do you have to back this assertion up?[/b] [/quote] The contrast between the logic in the first half of that paragraph and the logic in the second is ironically delicious. Edited January 29, 2011 by Letum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neneko Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 The war on evil never ends. You will be purged from this planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Izuzu Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Nice attempt at a shout down, OY, but you fail. The fact is that we have made many attempts to expand our circle of friendly associations. We have acted with fairness and reason with everyone that has been willing to extend the same courtesy to us. What we haven't done is cozy up to alliances that actively preach our destruction. Alliances that seek to keep us isolated. Alliances that have threatened, extorted, assaulted and abused those around them. In short, alliances like yours. Yes, we still labor under the stains of the past, despite the fact that we have paid more in restitution than any other alliance ever. We have acknowledged the transgressions of the past, despite your baseless claims to the contrary. The reason that you have assaulted us is not because we have sat on our hands, but because the circle of alliances that do not actively hate us and that are willing to consider moving forward in the future, albeit gradually, has been steadily growing. Despite what happens in this war, we will continue to move forward because we actually have learned from the past. You, on the other hand, have not. And you will eventually suffer a similar reckoning as the number of nations on Bob grow weary of your hypocrisy and hate mongering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296272870' post='2608449'] Let me direct you to this mirror: The contrast between the logic in the first half of that paragraph and the logic in the second is ironically delicious. [/quote] [font="Tahoma"]Last I checked, the world is continuing to breath and we've yet to pull the plug on it nor hit the neutrals whom make up a substantial portion of the world. So I suppose my logic is proven correct given their isn't any measurable evidence pointing towards the death of the world. Unless of course your speaking of Pacifica as the world, and even then your only in the process of [i]dying. [/i]Although it isn't entirely shocking to see you view the world as Pacifican given the history of your alliances actions.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biazt Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 If this is the best the mighty NPO propaganda machine can dish out I'm quite disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296273316' post='2608465'] [font="Tahoma"]Last I checked, the world is continuing to breath and we've yet to pull the plug on it nor hit the neutrals whom make up a substantial portion of the world. So I suppose my logic is proven correct given their isn't any measurable evidence pointing towards the death of the world. Unless of course your speaking of Pacifica as the world, and even then your only in the process of [i]dying. [/i]Although it isn't entirely shocking to see you view the world as Pacifican given the history of your alliances actions.[/font] [/quote] Um, did you quote the wrong post by mistake? I was referring to the hypocrisy of accusing Pacificans that our claims of being a non-hostile alliance have "no proof" to back them up, and then turning around and making unsupported assertions of your own that we are waiting at the wings to take over somehow. Unless you were just going for a generic response that belittles the alliance of the other poster. Edited January 29, 2011 by Letum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branimir Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1296273420' post='2608468']If this is the best the mighty NPO propaganda machine can dish out I'm quite disappointed[/quote] NPO propaganda machine was disassembled some time ago. You will have to settle with honest opinions of NPO members, as they are brought up. [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296273644' post='2608470']Um, did you quote the wrong post by mistake?[/quote] In a transparent attempt at dodging your cutting his post to shreds, he has aimed to your simple mistake at mentioning paragraphs. The second one was about "ending". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1296273093' post='2608460'] Nice attempt at a shout down, OY, but you fail. The fact is that we have made many attempts to expand our circle of friendly associations. We have acted with fairness and reason with everyone that has been willing to extend the same courtesy to us. What we haven't done is cozy up to alliances that actively preach our destruction. Alliances that seek to keep us isolated. Alliances that have threatened, extorted, assaulted and abused those around them. In short, alliances like yours. Yes, we still labor under the stains of the past, despite the fact that we have paid more in restitution than any other alliance ever. We have acknowledged the transgressions of the past, despite your baseless claims to the contrary. The reason that you have assaulted us is not because we have sat on our hands, but because the circle of alliances that do not actively hate us and that are willing to consider moving forward in the future, albeit gradually, has been steadily growing. Despite what happens in this war, we will continue to move forward because we actually have learned from the past. You, on the other hand, have not. And you will eventually suffer a similar reckoning as the number of nations on Bob grow weary of your hypocrisy and hate mongering. [/quote] [font="Tahoma"]For a moment, we were not calling for your heads. It was ever so brief, but only due to the fact that you all did not seek a restoration of relations between ourselves nor anyone else in Doom-House from what I gather. Instead you took pot-shots at us from your ant-hill resident Sir Paul, you kick-banned former Pacificans residing in MK from your channel, you closed our embassy after banning various envoys for simply showing themselves on your boards, if this is the Pacifican definition of "fairness and reason" then I suppose you still haven't changed for the better. The reason you were assaulted, is not because we were stuck in the past; rather because you continued to hemorrhage relations and we could not in good-faith let you slip back onto that ant-hill and poke at our feet without some retribution any longer; along with other reasons I've stated in various other threads debating the cause of this war. I trust that the world will soon see that we aren't as bad as you think we are and willing to move on beyond hinging on every action produced in our epoch and continuing rivalry.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Conrad Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Geez you guys are getting pretty desperate huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [quote]Those of you who are not of Doomhouse and feel your faith again has any meaning or relevance to your governance here upon Bob. Now is the time to call to the righteous side. Stand with the innocent in this matter and make it known that such actions of bullying and attempts to end this beautiful planet of ours will not go without justice. In the end, we will seek to be more benevolent than we were treated when we were humbled in Karma.[/quote] Oh hey look another desperate Pacifican, how pitiful. You call for others to come and assist you, yet your allies continue to sit on the sidelines/declare war on the smallest target possible. I guess this has always been the ethos of the New Pacific Order; getting others to fight your battles for you. Have you no shame? Edited January 29, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296273644' post='2608470'] Um, did you quote the wrong post by mistake? I was referring to the hypocrisy of accusing Pacificans that our claims of being a non-hostile alliance have "no proof" to back them up, and then turning around and making unsupported assertions of your own that we are waiting at the wings to take over somehow. Unless you were just going for a generic response that belittles the alliance of the other poster. [/quote] [font="Tahoma"]Actually, history proves that when one is defeated they must wait in the wings to recover enough strength to reclaim what they've lost. We waited 4 years under your rule before we had enough guns to take you down the first time. It's simply strategic and tactically sound to adapt such a strategy. As I said earlier, if you would have had the power to retake your position you'd act on it. Just like I would if I were in your shoes, or anyone else who isn't neutral but in a position to claim the throne of the world.[/font] [font="Tahoma"] [/font] [font="Tahoma"]Don't take us for fools.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Izuzu Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296274090' post='2608489'] [font="Tahoma"]For a moment, we were not calling for your heads. It was ever so brief, but only due to the fact that you all did not seek a restoration of relations between ourselves nor anyone else in Doom-House from what I gather. Instead you took pot-shots at us from your ant-hill resident Sir Paul, you kick-banned former Pacificans residing in MK from your channel, you closed our embassy after banning various envoys for simply showing themselves on your boards, if this is the Pacifican definition of "fairness and reason" then I suppose you still haven't changed for the better. The reason you were assaulted, is not because we were stuck in the past; rather because you continued to hemorrhage relations and we could not in good-faith let you slip back onto that ant-hill and poke at our feet without some retribution any longer; along with other reasons I've stated in various other threads debating the cause of this war. I trust that the world will soon see that we aren't as bad as you think we are and willing to move on beyond hinging on every action produced in our epoch and continuing rivalry.[/font] [/quote] Translation of the above: butt-hurt that we didn't kiss your collective asses and, like a mirror, reflected your own BS back at you. In point of fact, you are stuck in the past. It is the fact that we are not and are actively trying to move forward, that you feel threatened. If we were simply continuing in the mold of the past, nobody would want to have anything to do with us. I will grant you that we are not inclined to kowtow to all and sundry; we have our pride. That includes kick-banning punks who are abusive in our channel. It also includes abusive "diplomats" that create vile, insulting and derogatory threads in an embassy. But you cannot produce a single episode where we have taken malicious action against anyone. And I find it ironic that MK, of all alliances, could be so terribly wounded by OWF jabbing that you would feel that it justified war. When you claim that we "continued to hemorrhage relations" it is you that are being thoroughly disingenuous. As you well know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Izuzu Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296274498' post='2608510'] [font="Tahoma"]Actually, history proves that when one is defeated they must wait in the wings to recover enough strength to reclaim what they've lost. We waited 4 years under your rule before we had enough guns to take you down the first time. It's simply strategic and tactically sound to adapt such a strategy. As I said earlier, if you would have had the power to retake your position you'd act on it. Just like I would if I were in your shoes, or anyone else who isn't neutral but in a position to claim the throne of the world.[/font] [font="Tahoma"] [/font] [font="Tahoma"]Don't take us for fools.[/font] [/quote] You project your own inadequacies and hostilities onto us, that much is clear. However, we are not you. We do not labor under your pathetic insecurities. So please do not make statements as to what we would do, since you have no foundation on which to make such a prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Bad Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 Less the war on evil and more the war on stupid. Dumbhouse has attacked out of desperation as those around them began to leave them. Of course now even if they manage to win this war they will have to deal with the what will come because of it. Of all the moves they could have made this was perhaps the worst. Then again that just makes it easier for the rest of Planet Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296274498' post='2608510'] [font="Tahoma"]Actually, history proves that when one is defeated they must wait in the wings to recover enough strength to reclaim what they've lost. We waited 4 years under your rule before we had enough guns to take you down the first time. It's simply strategic and tactically sound to adapt such a strategy. As I said earlier, if you would have had the power to retake your position you'd act on it. Just like I would if I were in your shoes, or anyone else who isn't neutral but in a position to claim the throne of the world.[/font] [font="Tahoma"] [/font] [font="Tahoma"]Don't take us for fools.[/font] [/quote] I love how your idea of "history" is using your own vengeful character as an example. The world is full of examples of alliances that managed to get over their grudges, whilst in contrast, you stand as one of the few who held a grudge of such proportion that you had to find some pathetic excuse in order to convince yourselves that Karma and the 50k in reps was not "revenge", requiring an unprovoked attack 2 years later. The New Pacific Order is not MK, and has absolutely no desire to emulate such reprehensible aspects of your personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owned-You Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1296274966' post='2608533'] Translation of the above: butt-hurt that we didn't kiss your collective asses and, like a mirror, reflected your own BS back at you. In point of fact, you are stuck in the past. It is the fact that we are not and are actively trying to move forward, that you feel threatened. If we were simply continuing in the mold of the past, nobody would want to have anything to do with us. I will grant you that we are not inclined to kowtow to all and sundry; we have our pride. That includes kick-banning punks who are abusive in our channel. It also includes abusive "diplomats" that create vile, insulting and derogatory threads in an embassy. But you cannot produce a single episode where we have taken malicious action against anyone. And I find it ironic that MK, of all alliances, could be so terribly wounded by OWF jabbing that you would feel that it justified war. When you claim that we "continued to hemorrhage relations" it is you that are being thoroughly disingenuous. As you well know. [/quote] [font="Tahoma"]Quite a few alliances still want little to do with you that aren't tied to us; quite telling. We weren't terribly wounded, but it certainly gave us a reminder as to why we disliked you in the first place. For lack of a better term, it put you back on our radar instead of being an afterthought in our minds. Further, that pride you speak of was an immense roadblock in mending our relations towards any sense of amicable status. Those passive aggressive pot shots, and outright slaps in the faces of our members did wonders at burning the already charred ashes of things. Truly, if you were willing to move forward you'd have atleast tried to mend things between us. But you didn't. MK can be quite forgiving, as our relations with TOP show today.[/font] [font="Tahoma"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][quote name='Joe Izuzu' timestamp='1296275148' post='2608539'] You project your own inadequacies and hostilities onto us, that much is clear. However, we are not you. We do not labor under your pathetic insecurities. So please do not make statements as to what we would do, since you have no foundation on which to make such a prediction. [/quote][/font][/font] [font="Tahoma"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][/font][/font][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"][quote name='Letum' timestamp='1296275908' post='2608571'] I love how your idea of "history" is using your own vengeful character as an example. The world is full of examples of alliances that managed to get over their grudges, whilst in contrast, you stand as one of the few who held a grudge of such proportion that you had to find some pathetic excuse in order to convince yourselves that Karma and the 50k in reps was not "revenge", requiring an unprovoked attack 2 years later. The New Pacific Order is not MK, and has absolutely no desire to emulate such reprehensible aspects of your personality. [/quote] [/size][/font][font="Tahoma"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][/font][/font] [font="Tahoma"]Theoretically speaking, if we were to end this war tomorrow and we offered you an genuine olive branch and second chance. Would you be willing to move towards better relations between our parties? Or would you repeat your past course which drove you into the current predicament. Personally, speaking I don't have much of a grudge against your alliance; rather your just the present enemy to debate with these days. So I'm curious of your response, because the last instance this happened it would seem to prove the latter course.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffron X Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) You post way too many words for me to match bother with quoting our specific passages, so get ready for some rapid fire retorts. [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296272419' post='2608425'] [font="Tahoma"]You make a series of claims that are disingenuous at best and outright lies at worst. Your claims, being that somehow Pacifica has reformed itself into a new entity preaching peace, fairness, and growth...What evidence do you have to back this assertion up? What exactly has Pacifica done in the past year to demonstrate your reformation into a glorious beacon of hope for the broken and downtrodden? Their isn't any, you've simply sat in isolation slowly retying yourselves with the remaining bottom feeders from your old Hegemony. You've had no real friends, extended very few branches of friendship, and have relegated your Order to nothing more then a ticking-time bomb; opting to wait for us to slip so you may retake your throne rather then taking it yourselves. This position of convenience would not be adopted if you hard the hard and soft power projection to press your claims. Quit trying to project this image of a reformed Pacifica; anyone with half a brain will see through these blatant attempts at setting yourselves up as some sort of martyr for the "moralists" of Planet Bob.[/font] [/quote] In order: Prove it, everything we've done since Karma, everything we've done since Karma, we've attempted to branch out to many different alliances throughout the treaty web but not a whole lot came from it almost as if allying with us is putting a huge target on your back, MK has shown that it doesn't know the meaning of real friends, retaking our throne is a synonym with taking it ourselves, prove it, it's all everyone wanted for us to do since Karma but apparently that isn't enough, I am fairly certain we are actually succeeding in doing quite that. [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296276632' post='2608637'] [font="Tahoma"]Quite a few alliances still want little to do with you that aren't tied to us; quite telling. We weren't terribly wounded, but it certainly gave us a reminder as to why we disliked you in the first place. For lack of a better term, it put you back on our radar instead of being an afterthought in our minds. Further, that pride you speak of was an immense roadblock in mending our relations towards any sense of amicable status. Those passive aggressive pot shots, and outright slaps in the faces of our members did wonders at burning the already charred ashes of things. Truly, if you were willing to move forward you'd have atleast tried to mend things between us. But you didn't. MK can be quite forgiving, as our relations with TOP show today.[/font][/quote] Guys. You organized a coalition against us that resulted in one of the longest nuclear wars ever and took more tech in reps than we even had with limitations on who could even pay it. By the time the reps were done, it was past the anniversary of the start of the Karma war. I'm thinkin' maybe if you wanted to mend relations you should have maybe taken the first step? [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296276632' post='2608637'] [/size][/font][font="Tahoma"][font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][/font][/font] [font="Tahoma"]Theoretically speaking, if we were to end this war tomorrow and we offered you an genuine olive branch and second chance. Would you be willing to move towards better relations between our parties? Or would you repeat your past course which drove you into the current predicament. Personally, speaking I don't have much of a grudge against your alliance; rather your just the present enemy to debate with these days. So I'm curious of your response, because the last instance this happened it would seem to prove the latter course.[/font] [/quote] Second chance? We had our second chance. The only thing you can point to is that we didn't treat MK members with kindness. Not a single Pacifican would trust you. Edited January 29, 2011 by Geoffron X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letum Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296276632' post='2608637'] Theoretically speaking, if we were to end this war tomorrow and we offered you an genuine olive branch and second chance. Would you be willing to move towards better relations between our parties? Or would you repeat your past course which drove you into the current predicament. Personally, speaking I don't have much of a grudge against your alliance; rather your just the present enemy to debate with these days. So I'm curious of your response, because the last instance this happened it would seem to prove the latter course. [/quote] See, the issue with this kind of question is that it implies that NPO actively "caused" MK to attack it. That's obviously not the case, this attack was born out of something akin to paranoia at best and a way overblown grudge at worst. Whilst I do not deny that there is teasing and antagonizing by our membership, verbal criticism is not quite hostility, and it is not NPO that has made aggressive acts towards MK (unless you count trying to protect our trade partners as "aggression"). In that context, any attempt by your alliance to stop doing what, to the eyes of the membership of the order, is [i]going after us for no reason[/i] would improve relations pretty much by default. Remove the force, and you remove the opposition to that force. We will be somewhat miffed over this attack yes, but you need to realise the element of self-fulfilling prophecy by MK: by believing that we feel the same way you do and that we are waiting in the wings for a chance to take over, you have adopted a hostile stance that has pretty much guaranteed that we engage in verbal jousting. And over the past 2 years, that jousting is like an upwards cycle, ever increasing from both sides. And yes, I am fully aware that Sir Paul and our various comments have not been received well. That is part of that upwards cycle I am referring to. But we did not suddenly decide to pick on MK out of the blue; we felt we are merely reacting to an alliance that we felt is "after us" and had the power to do something about it(and in retrospect, we do not feel inaccurate, but that in itself may partially be a second self-fulfilling prophecy). Certainly, NPO could have stayed meek throughout the whole ordeal and not made a peep, but frankly, we are too proud of an alliance to bend over like that. You may regard that pride as a fault, but it is something I'd gladly sacrifice my nation for. In short, a relationship like that is bound to start with profound mistrust on both sides. But I believe that, as only one party has the power to do something about it, and only one party was on the "winning" side, then perhaps that party needs to back off a bit, and let us be in peace without actively looking for the smallest hint that we might be out for revenge - though I guess I can understand the strategic imperatives to doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Izuzu Posted January 29, 2011 Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Owned-You' timestamp='1296276632' post='2608637'] Quite a few alliances still want little to do with you that aren't tied to us; quite telling. We weren't terribly wounded, but it certainly gave us a reminder as to why we disliked you in the first place. For lack of a better term, it put you back on our radar instead of being an afterthought in our minds. Further, that pride you speak of was an immense roadblock in mending our relations towards any sense of amicable status. Those passive aggressive pot shots, and outright slaps in the faces of our members did wonders at burning the already charred ashes of things. Truly, if you were willing to move forward you'd have atleast tried to mend things between us. But you didn't. MK can be quite forgiving, as our relations with TOP show today. [/quote] Of course there are alliances that have no desire to get closer to us, just as there are those that we wish to keep at arm's reach. As for the pride, I would think that should be easy enough to understand. We held together through an ordeal that was just about as demanding as any ever endured by an alliance on Bob. We got stomped in a massive beat down, were incarcerated for a year, paid the largest reps in history, but we emerged unbroken and whole. You wouldn't be proud? And if you are constantly heckled, harassed and baited, you wouldn't respond in kind? As I mentioned in the FAN thread, diplomacy is a bidirectional process. Unless there is reciprocity, no progress can be made. I do not believe that you can look me in the virtual eye and honestly claim that MK ever made any legitimate effort to mend fences with us. Frankly, I don't think you can even claim to have been neutral in your dealings with us. I can say that for me, personally, MK was not at the height of my hate list coming out of Karma, or even coming out of reps. That is not to say that I ever liked you guys, but there was a time that I respected you for your dedication to your allies and for your overall competencies. Even now there are a couple of you that I respect. That being said, I don't think that anyone ever had any expectation that MK and NPO would become buddies. I do not believe that getting closer to you was ever perceived as being a viable option and I do not believe that you ever did a single thing to encourage us to modify that belief. [quote]Theoretically speaking, if we were to end this war tomorrow and we offered you an genuine olive branch and second chance. Would you be willing to move towards better relations between our parties? Or would you repeat your past course which drove you into the current predicament. Personally, speaking I don't have much of a grudge against your alliance; rather your just the present enemy to debate with these days. So I'm curious of your response, because the last instance this happened it would seem to prove the latter course. [/quote] Well, at this point the hate runs strong and deep. People don't respond well to being ganged up on by a block that has absolutely no concrete justification for the attack. This is especially true for members like myself that have only been in the Order for a couple of years, which is roughly 50% of the membership. The ostensible reasons for the attacks in Karma and now are punishment for transgressions that occurred before we ever joined. I do not argue that Karma was undeserved, since I was not here to observe the causes of the grievances that led to Karma. However, you can only be tried and sentenced once for a crime. That criminal proceeding has already taken place and we served our sentence. So what you are doing is vigilantism. And that justifiably angers us. That being said, I do not believe in holding grudges or seeking vengeance just for the sake of vengeance and, according to his statements, neither does Emperor Cortath. But even in the best case scenario, if we were to walk away from each other with a white peace, I think relations would max out at being neutral toward each other and it would be naive to expect any improvement on that for quite some time. However, if we could agree to maintain civil discourse both in our embassies and in the OWF, it would go a long way toward ameliorating hostilities. I truly do not believe that we have any intent to try to dominate the world and I don't believe that is a viable goal in any case. Do we want to regain the number 1 spot again? Sure. Do we want to have a secure sphere of influence? Certainly. But do we want to control every other alliance? I honestly do not believe that is the case. Edited January 29, 2011 by Joe Izuzu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) In soviet Bob. You do not dominate Bob.. Bob dominates you. We learned that last war, LOL. Edited January 29, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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