Everything. Must. Die.

[Dylan Carter]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1295951577' post='2599802']
You heard it here first: Umbrella is a paper tiger and no one has any interest in us aside from having some big nations.
[/quote]
Give me sweet lies and keep your bitter truths :'[

[Chris Kaos]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295952969' post='2599835']
... Holy crap. Chris Kaos defending Pacifica.

What the [b]hell[/b] have you done to Planet Bob, Doomhouse?!
[/quote]
I'm not defending them, I'm merely condemning MK and company. Four years ago I'd be cheering MK on, but I'm rather indifferent toward the NPO these days. They've exhibited none of the same tendencies that they used to.

MK, on the other hand, is doing precisely what the NPO used to do.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1295953186' post='2599839']
MK, on the other hand, is doing precisely what the NPO used to do.
[/quote]
Please correct me if I am wrong, for I wasn't around way back when, but isn't there more to the story than just how NPO [i]started[/i] the conflicts?

Edited January 25, 2011 by ktarthan

[Arrnea]

[quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1295953186' post='2599839']I'm not defending them, I'm merely condemning MK and company. Four years ago I'd be cheering MK on, but I'm rather indifferent toward the NPO these days. They've exhibited none of the same tendencies that they used to.

MK, on the other hand, is doing precisely what the NPO used to do.[/quote]
The way I look at it, condemning an offensive action is a show of support to the alliance that is being attacked, but whichever way you want to play it.
The irony is still enormous and I still want to know what the hell Doomhouse did to Planet Bob.

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1295953247' post='2599841']Please correct me if I am wrong, for I wasn't around way back when, but isn't there more to the story than just how NPO [i]started[/i] the conflicts?[/quote]
Just because you haven't gotten to that stage of the conflict yet does not mean that you aren't just as bad as the NPO were with regard to the arbitrary starting of conflicts based on petty grudges, or simply because you wanted to blow someone up.

Also, what was that about not using the "we aren't as bad as the NPO" argument? Doesn't seem like much a strawman to me after that post.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Arrnea

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1295953186' post='2599839']
I'm not defending them, I'm merely condemning MK and company. Four years ago I'd be cheering MK on, but I'm rather indifferent toward the NPO these days. They've exhibited none of the same tendencies that they used to.

MK, on the other hand, is doing precisely what the NPO used to do.
[/quote]

Unfortunately might it be possible that they haven't "exhibited the same tendencies" because they haven't wielded the same level of power, whereas the the opposite is true with respect to MK.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' timestamp='1295929662' post='2598221']
Everyone wanted this game to be exciting again and they cry when we make it so. Keep crying: You're next.
[/quote]
Boo hoo NPO made us disband. Pathetic

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1295953247' post='2599841']
Please correct me if I am wrong, for I wasn't around way back when, but isn't there more to the story than just how NPO [i]started[/i] the conflicts?
[/quote]

We all look forward to your most magnanimous offering of white peace then.

[northstars]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1295952832' post='2599832']
There was a scientific study out about it. You didn't read that? You guys are empirically twice as bad. Pretty amazing how that math works out, don't you think?
[/quote]

I am not foolish enough to attempt an argument with numbers. Especially when they are presented in such a scholarly, properly documented fashion, and from such a reputable, unbiased source.

[aineshane]

Pacifica must burn!

o/ Doomhouse

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='northstars' timestamp='1295953580' post='2599851']
I am not foolish enough to attempt an argument with numbers. Especially when they are presented in such a scholarly, properly documented fashion, and from such a reputable, unbiased source.
[/quote]

Yes, there is really no point in arguing when turabian citations are involved.

[Chris Kaos]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1295953247' post='2599841']
Please correct me if I am wrong, for I wasn't around way back when, but isn't there more to the story than just how NPO [i]started[/i] the conflicts?
[/quote]
Obviously. From the end of the Great War until the Karma war, the NPO was in a large, dominating power bloc which effectively moderated the flow of political power throughout CN and despite the best efforts of several parties, until the Karma war rolled around, they won every war they ever fought handily. That's for a start, anyway. If you can't see that MK has been doing the same thing since the end of Karma, I really don't know what to tell you.

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295953307' post='2599842']
The way I look at it, condemning an offensive action is a show of support to the alliance that is being attacked, but whichever way you want to play it.
The irony is still enormous and I still want to know what the hell Doomhouse did to Planet Bob.
[/quote]
I can see why you'd believe that, but in this case, it's more of a moral outrage than a show of support.

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1295953411' post='2599847']
Unfortunately might it be possible that they haven't "exhibited the same tendencies" because they haven't wielded the same level of power, whereas the the opposite is true with respect to MK.
[/quote]
Since I've returned (July of last year), they've wielded more than enough power on their own to begin slowly shuffling the pieces around the board to suit their purposes should they have wanted that, but they've been playing a much subtler game. They used to wield the broadsword, now it's a scalpel.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Chris Kaos

[ROMMELHSQ]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1295951722' post='2599806']
When you couldn’t trap in NPO with the same move used by them in the Karma war, a move they were hammered for by you then you just did what TOP did against you in the Bi-Polar war in a move you hammered them for. I know being on top you dont care about opinions or comical levels of hypocrisy. I’m interested to know TOPs take on this move. The OP clearly thinks there is a major difference between the two citing TOPs attack as “deplorable” and “not when against a foe of strength” amongst his comments to justify this attack

[b]So what say you TOP, happy with your new allies move after what dhey did to you only months ago?[/b]
[/quote]
It was us doing it to them. And honestly, unless there is some back-stabbing. I'm personally quite satisfied...it just show how much us and MK are similar...with this, more than ever!!

[Banksy]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1295952289' post='2599820']
This is a joke. The height of hypocrisy. You think you are different from Pacifica? You are not. In fact, you are [i]twice [/i]as bad. You twist words and lie with your silver tongue to suit your needs Neverender. May you yet choke on them.
[/quote]
lmbo.

[quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1295952488' post='2599826']
If you're going to declare war because you feel like it, you should say so, instead of gussying it up like this and trying to make yourselves look good. The sad part about your supposed [i]cassus belli[/i] is that what you accuse the NPO of doing, their imperialistic iron fisted ruling, is precisely what MK et al have been doing since Karma[/quote]
Selective reading gets you nowhere, you missed the CB:

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1295928088' post='2597854']
A first strike is not deplorable when against a foe of strength, but one must make sure their political situation is unassailable before doing so.

Or, perhaps it is even more simple than that.

Maybe it's just a matter of loathing. Maybe it is because we believe that Everything. Must. Die. Maybe it is because we think you deserve to burn.

It doesn't actually matter. Whatever reason we decided to state, our foes would take their own, believe it, and attempt to spin it to their benefit. I welcome them to try. I wish them good luck, even, for they will surely need it. As for us? We always hear people saying "Do something about it!" with great bravado, so how about this?

[b]The Combined Forces of Doomhouse hereby declare war upon the New Pacific Order.[/b]

[/quote]
We just don't like them.

We haven't ruled with an Iron fist since Karma. Any one who says that is suffering from some major revisionism. Post-karma there were four blocs, with TOP holding the upper cards. MK had a brief period of dominance after BiPolar, but then we cancelled all of our treaties. We're simply the focus for most people because we're more visible.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1295953709' post='2599854']
Obviously. From the end of the Great War until the Karma war, the NPO was in a large, dominating power bloc which effectively moderated the flow of political power throughout CN and despite the best efforts of several parties, until the Karma war rolled around, they won every war they ever fought handily. That's for a start, anyway. If you can't see that MK has been doing the same thing since the end of Karma, I really don't know what to tell you.[/quote]
xfd at the melodrama. This is the second war we've fought in Karma, and the only one we've taken the initiative on (we were trying to avert BiPolar until we heard about TOP's ~plan~). As i said previously, we didn't even have the upper hand for most of that time period.

[Heft]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1295953411' post='2599847']
Unfortunately might it be possible that they haven't "exhibited the same tendencies" because they haven't wielded the same level of power, whereas the the opposite is true with respect to MK.
[/quote]
The moment Doomhouse thinks they have the power to get rid of the Orders, they do so. So if your point is that MK is now acting as bad as the former hegemonic powers (like TOP?) ever did now that they have a similar level of power, then I guess I agree with you.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='ROMMELHSQ' timestamp='1295953825' post='2599855']
It was us doing it to them. And honestly, unless there is some back-stabbing. I'm personally quite satisfied...it just show how much us and MK are similar...with this, more than ever!!
[/quote]

Perhaps you're right Rommel, and I can certainly agree with you that being stabbed in the front is much more preferable to being hit in the back, a la Polar. However, I can't help but think this is a massive circle. Perhaps you weren't one of them, but I seem to recall many TOP members expressing remorse at using preemption as a valid strategy. Is that no longer the case?

Perhaps its easier for you guys since you appear to have acquired an ally in conjunction with those reps, but as I mentioned earlier, the reasoning behind this DoW strikes me as slightly opportunistic in light of all that TTIFDT tech being put to use my the MK war machine right now, which was extracted for our "crime". However, I will say, I'm glad our reps have been put to good use.

[ROMMELHSQ]

[quote name='Lord Curzon' timestamp='1295954512' post='2599862']
Perhaps you're right Rommel, and I can certainly agree with you that being stabbed in the front is much more preferable to being hit in the back, a la Polar. However, I can't help but think this is a massive circle. Perhaps you weren't one of them, but I seem to recall many TOP members expressing remorse at using preemption as a valid strategy. Is that no longer the case?

Perhaps its easier for you guys since you appear to have acquired an ally in conjunction with those reps, but as I mentioned earlier, the reasoning behind this DoW strikes me as slightly opportunistic in light of all that TTIFDT tech being put to use my the MK war machine right now, which was extracted for our "crime". However, I will say, I'm glad our reps have been put to good use.
[/quote]
It is my personal opinion. And I honestly thought that our pre-emptive strike wasn't wrong neither politically or military. The only mistake we did it while trusting NpO.... It was a high stakes game...we either crushed CnG...or be crushed. We ended crushing each other and us paying reps.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' timestamp='1295929662' post='2598221']
Everyone wanted this game to be exciting again and they cry when we make it so. Keep crying: You're next.
[/quote]

Thanks for that NoWedge.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295953307' post='2599842']
Just because you haven't gotten to that stage of the conflict yet does not mean that you aren't just as bad as the NPO were with regard to the arbitrary starting of conflicts based on petty grudges, or simply because you wanted to blow someone up.
[/quote]
I think this still falls short of doing "precisely" what the NPO did, as there's so many other factors to take into consideration and it does not do intelligent discourse justice to simplify the situation into such general terms. Perhaps this conflict has started similar to some previous conflicts started by NPO. But do you think NPO would have been vilified if they declared wars with no CB and then gave white peace after one week? Yes, that is hyperbole, but [i]the whole story is important[/i].

[quote]
Also, what was that about not using the "we aren't as bad as the NPO" argument? Doesn't seem like much a strawman to me after that post.
[/quote]
The thing is the "just as bad"/"not as bad" argument is stupid from both sides. Firstly it leads to making huge generalizations about the contexts and motivations and feelings behind any given decision (see my previous point). Secondly it's a cop-out of an argument. Explain why an action is/isn't bad, not what it is/isn't as bad as.

[quote name='Chris Kaos' timestamp='1295953709' post='2599854']
Obviously. From the end of the Great War until the Karma war, the NPO was in a large, dominating power bloc which effectively moderated the flow of political power throughout CN and despite the best efforts of several parties, until the Karma war rolled around, they won every war they ever fought handily. That's for a start, anyway. If you can't see that MK has been doing the same thing since the end of Karma, I really don't know what to tell you.
[/quote]
You've buried your explanation under too much euphemism for it to have any substance. I don't have a problem with an alliance that "was in a large, dominating power bloc which effectively moderated the flow of political power throughout CN and despite the best efforts of several parties, until the Karma war rolled around, they won every war they ever fought handily." For all the difference it makes you could accuse MK of having bought infra and tech, as those were the main sources of NPO's size.
If you begin to list some of the specific crimes which brought about Karma, you may find out why I took exception to you saying that MK is doing [i]precisely[/i] as the NPO did.

[Stewie]

Who's house??


DOOMHOUSE!!

o/ Goons
o/ Umbrella
o/ MK
o/ War

The haters of this war are just annoyed they have to defend on 2 fronts now <3

[Amelorn]

Adolescent idiocy: 1
Diplomacy: 0

[Locke]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1295955239' post='2599872']
I think this still falls short of doing "precisely" what the NPO did, as there's so many other factors to take into consideration and it does not do intelligent discourse justice to simplify the situation into such general terms. Perhaps this conflict has started similar to some previous conflicts started by NPO. But do you think NPO would have been vilified if they declared wars with no CB and then gave white peace after one week? Yes, that is hyperbole, but [i]the whole story is important[/i].
[/quote]
So...you're giving NPO white peace in a week? To take the whole story into account, the whole story must play. We'll see what story you make in the coming days and weeks, but for now at least it rings eerily true of your own condemnations in days past.

[lebubu]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295955389' post='2599877']
So...you're giving NPO white peace in a week?
[/quote]

If we burn them to the ground by then, maybe.

[Lord Curzon]

[quote name='ROMMELHSQ' timestamp='1295954994' post='2599867']
It is my personal opinion. And I honestly thought that our pre-emptive strike wasn't wrong neither politically or military. The only mistake we did it while trusting NpO.... It was a high stakes game...we either crushed CnG...or be crushed. We ended crushing each other and us paying reps.
[/quote]

Thats pretty much sums up my opinion as well, and I'm glad MK and friends have decided to employ our tactic (again I think it is much more debatable whether NPO was entering, but that's neither here nor there as far as I'm concerned), I just wish I could get my tech back.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1295955389' post='2599877']
So...you're giving NPO white peace in a week?
[/quote]
I guess you missed the part where I specifically said the statement was hyperbole so people wouldn't make this comment.

[quote][b]To take the whole story into account, the whole story must play.[/b] We'll see what story you make in the coming days and weeks, but for now at least it rings eerily true of your own condemnations in days past.
[/quote]
The bolded point is exactly what I'm saying. And I'll assume you're using the plural "your", as I certainly haven't condemned anything of the sort in days past!