Chief Savage Man Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295710884' post='2591943'] It may have been addressed elsewhere, and if so I apologize, but has an explanation for Impero waiving Lennox's entrance into VE on the 12th, prior to the conversations with Dajabo, been provided? He applied and was passed through the academy in 4 minutes. Just curious. [/quote] Images were taken down due to hostmasks but if I remember correctly, one of them described why Impero waived the academy for Lennox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1295711031' post='2591948'] Images were taken down due to hostmasks but if I remember correctly, one of them described why Impero waived the academy for Lennox. [/quote] Right, because he was "an experienced former player". Which implies that Impero was aware of who Lennox was before he applied to VE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hadrian Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 This is a crock of !@#$%^&*. Now you're dragging GOD under the water too? $%&@ you VE. [quote name='leprecon' timestamp='1295700111' post='2591766'] The ones who disagree with me are mentally numb moronic simpleton cowardly clowns. You are quite a humble man, you who prefers mentally stimulating challenges which can be solved using your superior argumentative skills and intellect. Maybe we too can learn how to defeat our opponents in debate by being overly insulting! We should all aspire to be like Rebel Virginia, constantly striving to improve ourselves in such a manner.[/quote] You mad son? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Yes, experienced players can skip the academy at the discretion of certain senior people. (For example I didn't have to go through it either.) So yeah I think he said to Impero 'Yo I'm Lennox, remember me, don't make me do the academy' and Impero agreed. I don't have the details of that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Bergerland' timestamp='1295691913' post='2591667'] While he never stated it outright it was quite implied. 20:33 Chancy I should spy on MHA 20:33 Chancy Just to make them mad 20:33 Dajobo|NpO| nah they aren't the enemy 20:34 Dajobo|NpO| pick domeone worth spying on 20:35 Chancy Give me suggestions [color="#FF0000"][b]20:36 Dajobo|NpO| VE or MK are the two who are heavily involved in world politics 20:36 Dajobo|NpO| anything that happens will come through them first[/b][/color] Lennox states that he should spy on MHA and Dajobo says that he shouldn't because "they aren't the enemy." After that he suggests that VE or MK would make better targets. Why would he oppose going to spy on MHA and explicitly state that they're not the enemy and then come back with VE as a suggestion if he had the same objection with VE? [/quote] Read the red letters above and see why he said that spy VE or MK would make more sense. VE would have used the follow CB: State the obvious is unacceptable thus we declare war on New Polar Order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295711611' post='2591959'] Yes, experienced players can skip the academy at the discretion of certain senior people. (For example I didn't have to go through it either.) So yeah I think he said to Impero 'Yo I'm Lennox, remember me, don't make me do the academy' and Impero agreed. I don't have the details of that though. [/quote] Right, but wouldn't that also mean that the application itself was falsified since it is clear to lots of people that Lennox carried baggage and grudges with him? Of course, if you are stating that Impero is incompetent in his decision making processes regarding members, then I will just quiet down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295711260' post='2591951'] Right, because he was "an experienced former player". Which implies that Impero was aware of who Lennox was before he applied to VE. [/quote] [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295711611' post='2591959'] Yes, experienced players can skip the academy at the discretion of certain senior people. (For example I didn't have to go through it either.) So yeah I think he said to Impero 'Yo I'm Lennox, remember me, don't make me do the academy' and Impero agreed. I don't have the details of that though. [/quote] Yes - in the logs, Lennox had spoken to Kyber first I think who told Impero that he (Lennox under whichever name it was at the time) wanted to skip it. Impero insisted he had to know who it was. Lennox had not yet been accepted to VE till that conversation. And yes, it was before Lennox went speaking to Dajobo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solaris Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295710884' post='2591943'] It may have been addressed elsewhere, and if so I apologize, but has an explanation for Impero waiving Lennox's entrance into VE on the 12th, prior to the conversations with Dajabo, been provided? He applied and was passed through the academy in 4 minutes. Just curious. [/quote]I wasn't handling the situation personally, but I'm under the impression that he claimed to be a reroll of someone who played some time ago in a disbanded alliance via an instant communication line. Can't very well go ask their goverment for a background check should that be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Savage Man Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1295711834' post='2591965'] Right, but wouldn't that also mean that the application itself was falsified since it is clear to lots of people that Lennox carried baggage and grudges with him? Of course, if you are stating that Impero is incompetent in his decision making processes regarding members, then I will just quiet down. [/quote] Haha, you haven't changed a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Moldavi Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Solaris' timestamp='1295711909' post='2591969'] I wasn't handling the situation personally, but I'm under the impression that he claimed to be a reroll of someone who played some time ago in a disbanded alliance via an instant communication line. Can't very well go ask their goverment for a background check should that be the case. [/quote] So it is standard VE practice to accept re-rolls with no confirmation in 4 minutes? That's pretty nifty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthey Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 (edited) [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295662966' post='2590340'] Is this the Polar side buzzword? I hear you are using that "rallying cry" trying to sway some of the alliances not engaged. You guys really think the alliances you sold out last war are looking to ride to your defense? [/quote] Omni is IAA, not NpO. Even so however, I was under the impression that argent was skeptical of power politics in general. You didn't like NPO for their mentality and recor; as such I really can't understand why you would have any affinity for alliances that have the hubris to play world police 2.0 now. Sure its fair that you wouldn't like polaris, the bipolar war did screw over all of argent's allies, but that doesn't change the fact that this was really a contemptible move on the part of VE. If the old way was characterized by the CB being nothing more than a contrived excuse to some greater ulterior motive, then this war is a return to that paradigm. Omni's point is: up to this moment those who steered clear of aggression and other acts of war could count on the fact that alliances wouldn't move without a CB. This particular scenario confirms that in the absence of an independent cause for war, those in power will seek one out or create one to achieve their personal political objectives. Even in light of the serious questions that have been raised regarding this CB, many of the VE allies, and even those on the periphery have brushed this off as irrelevant, touting the ages old line 'do something about it'. If the community as a whole no longer independently values sovereignty in its own right, a dangerous trend implied int he rhetoric over the last few days, then really no one is safe. The criticism being leveled really has nothing to do with polar, or sympathy for them. The issues at play here transcend the personalities or names attributed to the various sides, what we are really back to is whether an altogether unoffensive alliance has the right to even exist. If there exists an overwhelmingly powerful gang of alliances that will unconditionally back one another, or if the periphery of that nexus continues to abdicate their own judgmental faculties when it comes to assessing the justness of the war, then that is indeed no longer the case. Edited January 22, 2011 by iamthey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alterego Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1295711611' post='2591959'] Yes, experienced players can skip the academy at the discretion of certain senior people. (For example I didn't have to go through it either.) So yeah I think he said to Impero 'Yo I'm Lennox, remember me, don't make me do the academy' and Impero agreed. I don't have the details of that though. [/quote] I think he said yo Impero that plan you came up with is a go. Push me through quick give some classified screen shots. Ill go to polar with them and you can start your war. I don't have the details of that though. Seems strange out of 4 alliances mentioned in a fairly random conversation the one that Lennox decided to spy on rushed him through, confessed his sins, forgave him, offered protection, gave him classified screenshots, sent him back all in a about a day. Yet no one has information backing up this fantastic version besides "I think". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megamickel Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 In the interest of remaining neutral, I will not say what I'd like to in response to this. Instead, I will simply say BLOOD IS STILL SHED! THE BLOOD GOD IS PLEASED! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='iamthey' timestamp='1295712211' post='2591981'] Omni is IAA, not NpO. Even so however, I was under the impression that argent was skeptical of power politics in general. You didn't like NPO for their mentality and recor; as such I really can't understand why you would have any affinity for alliances that have the hubris to play world police 2.0 now. Sure its fair that you wouldn't like polaris, the bipolar war did screw over all of argent's allies, but that doesn't change the fact that this was really a contemptible move on the part of VE. If the old way was characterized by the CB being nothing more than a contrived excuse to some greater ulterior motive, then this war is a return to that paradigm.[/quote] We are tied to 2 members of the "world police 2.0". Umbrella, one of our oldest allys and one who have put their own wishes and their alliance on the line to back us up, even when they didn't agree with what was going on. As long as I am Emperor, we will go to hell and back for them. The other is VE, who have been nothing but friends to us. Whether or not we agree with what has happened is something we'll deal with our allies about. Privately. I will admit it's a huge bonus that NpO was the one to mess up. While I never agreed with what TOP and IRON and friends did in their preemptive strike, switching sides and stabbing them in the back was worse. I'm a petty person, and I am enjoying watching them pay. [quote] Omni's point is: up to this moment those who steered clear of aggression and other acts of war could count on the fact that alliances wouldn't move without a CB. This particular scenario confirms that in the absence of an independent cause for war, those in power will seek one out or create one to achieve their personal political objectives. Even in light of the serious questions that have been raised regarding this CB, many of the VE allies, and even those on the periphery have brushed this off as irrelevant, touting the ages old line 'do something about it'. If the community as a whole no longer independently values sovereignty in its own right, a dangerous trend implied int he rhetoric over the last few days, then really no one is safe. The criticism being leveled really has nothing to do with polar, or sympathy for them. The issues at play here transcend the personalities or names attributed to the various sides, what we are really back to is whether an altogether unoffensive alliance has the right to even exist. If there exists an overwhelmingly powerful gang of alliances that will unconditionally back one another, or if the periphery of that nexus continues to abdicate their own judgmental faculties when it comes to assessing the justness of the war, then that is indeed no longer the case. [/quote] "unoffensive allliance"? Polar? Really? If there ever comes a day when Pandora's Box is truly acting like tC and their ilk, there will be a new Karma. That's how the world works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295714305' post='2592024'] If there ever comes a day when Pandora's Box is truly acting like tC and their ilk, there will be a new Karma. That's how the world works. [/quote] You've got something dribbling down your chin there, need a tissue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1295714772' post='2592033'] You've got something dribbling down your chin there, need a tissue? [/quote] No, I'm good. You guys might need one to wipe away the tears though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvon Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295715248' post='2592041'] No, I'm good. You guys might need one to wipe away the tears though. [/quote] Yeah, you're right ... We've been laughing so hard at Impero through all this .. Still - so very sorry for all those who got played by him. Not only does he not care about his own alliance and is willing to put them in harms way for his amusement, but he's also willing to do the same to all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295714305' post='2592024'] If there ever comes a day when Pandora's Box is truly acting like tC and their ilk, there will be a new Karma. That's how the world works. [/quote] Just blind fools like you can't see that they already are acting like tC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295714305' post='2592024'] "unoffensive allliance"? Polar? Really? If there ever comes a day when Pandora's Box is truly acting like tC and their ilk, there will be a new Karma. That's how the world works.[/quote]Concocting a CB like this is about as old-heg as you can get. I guess that's bad news for your ties to World Police 2.0. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='cookavich' timestamp='1295717538' post='2592079'] Concocting a CB like this is about as old-heg as you can get. I guess that's bad news for your ties to World Police 2.0. [/quote] Taking advantage of =/= concocting. Your Regent screwed up. Was it enough for a war with minimal diplomacy? Depends on which side you fall on I guess. Other alliances may have gotten the benefit of the doubt. Welcome to Planet Bob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295718197' post='2592092'] Taking advantage of =/= concocting. Your Regent screwed up. Was it enough for a war with minimal diplomacy? Depends on which side you fall on I guess. Other alliances may have gotten the benefit of the doubt. Welcome to Planet Bob. [/quote]There is no doubt that Dajobo exercised poor judgment, but what Impero did was not merely "taking advantage of" the situation. No, it went from rather innocuous conversation (when looked at in the context that it was between two friends) to getting PM'd screenshots that Dajobo didn't ask for... screenshots provided by Impero for the purpose of entrapment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='cookavich' timestamp='1295718695' post='2592103'] There is no doubt that Dajobo exercised poor judgment, but what Impero did was not merely "taking advantage of" the situation. No, it went from rather innocuous conversation (when looked at in the context that it was between two friends) to getting PM'd screenshots that Dajobo didn't ask for... screenshots provided by Impero for the purpose of entrapment. [/quote] Entrapment would entail someone offering him out of the blue. Had the initial conversations where Dajobo made suggestions and assisted with the creation of the spying nation not occured, I would agree with you. His participation made any further "tests" a sting, not entrapment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpoiL Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='janax' timestamp='1295718197' post='2592092'] Taking advantage of =/= concocting. Your Regent screwed up. Was it enough for a war with minimal diplomacy? Depends on which side you fall on I guess. Other alliances may have gotten the benefit of the doubt. Welcome to Planet Bob. [/quote] So taking advantage of spying =/= concocting? If anybody wants to see my alliance rolled, go ahead and send me some screenshots. I'll take a look at every one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennox Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1295718918' post='2592108'] So taking advantage of spying =/= concocting? If anybody wants to see my alliance rolled, go ahead and send me some screenshots. I'll take a look at every one of them. [/quote] Ok just a moment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janax Posted January 22, 2011 Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1295718918' post='2592108'] So taking advantage of spying =/= concocting? If anybody wants to see my alliance rolled, go ahead and send me some screenshots. I'll take a look at every one of them. [/quote] Taking advantage of a situation does not mean you created/caused it to occur. You are correct. Dajobo screwed up, and VE took advantage of it. They didn't force him to assist or discuss spying, they didn't make him suggest places to spy on, nor did they force him to open the screenshots AFTER requesting they be rehosted so he could see them. They sure as heck didn't make him discuss the contents of said messages. They did, however, use those actions against him and Polar as a whole. They didn't make it all up, they took advantage of what actually occured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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