Declaration of War From the Viridian Entente

[Voytek]

You couldn't afford me.

[Farnsworth]

Well, I suppose somebody was going to be setup someday... it was bound to happen. Who knows, really, double agents, triple agents... things are tricky these days.

I'm sure this has been discussed already in this thread and regardless it doesn't absolve Dajobo from wrongdoing, but why would the spy take screenshots of his IRC conversations with Dajobo in the absence of a premeditated intent to use them against Dajobo/NpO? Obviously people keep logs, but screenshots? That's a bit much, I think.

It seems fishy, that's all. Espionage is messy business.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Farnsworth

[abdur]

[quote name='Arrnea' timestamp='1295357600' post='2581213']
You don't say. [url=http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=361661]At least Hoo's taking a stand[/url]. Gotta give the man props for that, at least.

For shame, Ragnarok. For shame.
[/quote]
Yeah, Hoo has my respect now.

[ChimpMasterFlash]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295360746' post='2581266']
[color="#0000FF"]Random did try diplomacy, however, he has a point. Why bother when you know it's not going to accomplish anything? Sure, it's all part of the act. They talk, nothing happens, then war, and then VE gets to say that at least it tried. Why bother with the charade? There are times when there just is no reasoning with people.[/color]
[/quote]

[color="#0000FF"]Rebel Virginal,

If NpO did not entertain your said charade, why go through the trouble of a giant [i]Baw, we've been set-up[/i] post?

If it is for PR value [which it is] that is fine and well. They should have used their reasoning skills when they had the chance so they could provide logs that they in fact are not guilty as a raccoon in the trash.

Instead they look guilty-- before, during, and after.

p.s. I own your color now. You will regret this. That is all.
[/color]o/

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Farnsworth' timestamp='1295361599' post='2581293']
Well, I suppose somebody was going to be setup someday... it was bound to happen. Who knows, really, double agents, triple agents... things are tricky these days.

I'm sure this has been discussed already in this thread and regardless it doesn't absolve Dajobo from wrongdoing, but why would the spy take screenshots of his IRC conversations with Dajobo in the absence of a premeditated intent to use them against Dajobo/NpO?

It seems fishy, that's all. Espionage is messy business.
[/quote]It isn't entrapment when he's faced with a real moral choice. Point being, if he [i]was[/i] double-crossing him with intent, it makes no difference.

[welshgazza1992]

[quote name='abdur' timestamp='1295361640' post='2581295']
Yeah, Hoo has my respect now.
[/quote]

You're not in Ragnarok... You don't know what's happening in Ragnarok. May I direct you to this post...

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97239&view=findpost&p=2581284

[Gobb]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295337748' post='2580822']
Also take a look above if you think that VE never asked defeated enemies to pay high reps, unless you think that 350,000 tech and $10,000,000,000 isn't high.
[/quote]
You're saying it like NPO didn't deserve to pay every cent and tech of those terms.

[D34th]

[quote name='Lord Gobb' timestamp='1295361978' post='2581312']
You're saying it like NPO didn't deserve to pay every cent and tech of those terms.
[/quote]

Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying, improve your comprehension skills and come back later.

[pezstar]

[quote name='welshgazza1992' timestamp='1295361749' post='2581302']
You're not in Ragnarok... You don't know what's happening in Ragnarok. May I direct you to this post...

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97239&view=findpost&p=2581284
[/quote]

I'll bet you 3M and 50 tech that the following will be RoK's response:

"NpO committed an act of aggression against VE and we are, therefore, not obligated to defend them."

To NpO, re: RoK- Remember that conversation we had about a month ago? Yeah. We told you so.

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Lord Gobb' timestamp='1295361978' post='2581312']
You're saying it like NPO didn't deserve to pay every cent and tech of those terms.
[/quote]

Don't worry NPO gained most of it back.

As opposed to that !@#$ tier alliance you call VE.

[abdur]

[quote name='welshgazza1992' timestamp='1295361749' post='2581302']
You're not in Ragnarok... You don't know what's happening in Ragnarok. May I direct you to this post...

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97239&view=findpost&p=2581284
[/quote]
Ofcourse I am not.
Does that stop me from voicing my opinion?
Also, you know that when the founder of our alliance and the guy who led you for ~2 years, leaves in disgust, you know you did something terribly wrong.

[Farnsworth]

[quote name='Rocky Horror' timestamp='1295361710' post='2581299']
It isn't entrapment when he's faced with a real moral choice. Point being, if he [i]was[/i] double-crossing him with intent, it makes no difference.
[/quote]

Yes, and, as you may recall, I pointed out that such a scenario does not absolve Dajobo of wrongdoing, but merely allude that the perpetrators of such a plan could not exactly claim innocence.

[LordLance]

"An individual was aimed at our alliance via their Regent Dajobo, where he then gathered secure information and funneled it directly back to Dajobo himself. This individual; referred to in the evidence below and in other circles as Chancy, Sprog, Lennox, The Peoples Champ, and Rattlin Bones; originally conceived of this plan alongside Dajobo by thinking of Viridia as a target. However, after spending some time within our shining city on a hill, his attitude drastically changed, and he came to me with the honest tale of his original intent. The evidence of culpability below paints a clear picture, and while Dajobo may have slapped on a facial disclaimer in the original logs, we do not feel this exculpates him or his alliance whatsoever in light of the lengths he went to retrieve the information in question as related by the screen shots."


My only thing is this looks just like a set up. He got Regent to agree, he did the espionage, then he spend time in "shining city on a hill" he dicided he felt bad. Yeah im sure his emotions were a real freight train.

[Arrnea]

[quote name='welshgazza1992' timestamp='1295361749' post='2581302']
You're not in Ragnarok... You don't know what's happening in Ragnarok. May I direct you to this post...

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97239&view=findpost&p=2581284
[/quote]
Well, if you do actually manage to go against what Hoo seems to have noticed, grow a pair and defend your ally then I'll be quite pleasantly surprised, won't I.
Until then, I'll continue to criticise cowardice when I see it.

[SpoiL]

[quote name='welshgazza1992' timestamp='1295361749' post='2581302']
You're not in Ragnarok... You don't know what's happening in Ragnarok. May I direct you to this post...

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97239&view=findpost&p=2581284
[/quote]

Through hell and back together..right?

[welshgazza1992]

[quote name='pezstar' timestamp='1295362210' post='2581317']
I'll bet you 3M and 50 tech that the following will be RoK's response:

"NpO committed an act of aggression against VE and we are, therefore, not obligated to defend them."

To NpO, re: RoK- Remember that conversation we had about a month ago? Yeah. We told you so.
[/quote]

You're the foreign minister of the STA? I am shocked that somebody who shows so little diplomatic qualities can gain such a position. [img]http://forums.cybernations.net/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif[/img]

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Farnsworth' timestamp='1295362493' post='2581328']
Yes, and, as you may recall, I pointed out that such a scenario does not absolve Dajobo of wrongdoing, but merely allude that the perpetrators of such a plan could not exactly claim innocence.
[/quote]But who could you punish for it? It isn't as though the government could be implicated.

[Gobb]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1295362099' post='2581315']
Yeah that's exactly what I'm saying, improve your comprehension skills and come back later.
[/quote]
No I said you're saying it like you thought they didn't!

[Smooth]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295338891' post='2580875']
[color="#0000FF"]This is why I, as someone who actively opposed the NPO for nearly a year before VE and its buddies finally stopped sucking at NPO's teat, find these alliances to be worthy of contempt. Please, shut up already. You're not heroes. Take it from a real hero.[/color]
[/quote]

Says a man actively sucking NPO's teat. It's called time and place. Let me know when you take down NPO's vicegrip on the world.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1295338891' post='2580875']
[color="#0000FF"]This is why I, as someone who actively opposed the NPO for nearly a year before VE and its buddies finally stopped sucking at NPO's teat, find these alliances to be worthy of contempt. Please, shut up already. You're not heroes. Take it from a real hero.[/color]
[/quote]
That's the full poop, right there. VE is a joke.

[quote name='Smooth' timestamp='1295363410' post='2581347']
Says a man actively sucking NPO's teat. It's called time and place. Let me know when you take down NPO's vicegrip on the world.
[/quote]
Says the man laughed off of Fark's forum for claiming VE never disbanded. VE exists at the whim of its betters.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Schattenmann

[AirMe]

If this isn't a valid reason for war, I ask what SirWilliam asked earlier.....what is a valid reason for war anymore?

Edited January 18, 2011 by AirMe

[Arrnea]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295363744' post='2581350']If this isn't a valid reason for war, I ask what SirWilliam asked earlier.....what is a valid reason for war anymore?[/quote]
The answer is that there is no universal standard, only what those in power feel is convenient to them at the time.

[Varianz]

[quote name='Alaric' timestamp='1295355652' post='2581189']
why doesn't VE roll NSO since that is where Lennox has been a member these last months?
[/quote]
You know, we half expected that given the idiocy of this CB.

[President Kuse]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1295363519' post='2581349']
That's the full poop, right there. VE is a joke.


Says the man laughed off of Fark's forum for claiming VE never disbanded. VE exists at the whim of its betters.
[/quote]

VE exists due to its loyal following, and its sheer force of will to be apart of Planet Bob. We do not claim superiority, We achieve more so for the betterment of our members and the Unity of Green. The day that VE falls to the wayside is the day that I myself will leave because then VE will not have been serving its purpose as it has always been here for.

Take this from a long time member of numerous years and have the same amount of time leading our some of the finest Members during war time operations as a Commander.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295363744' post='2581350']
If this isn't a valid reason for war, I ask what SirWilliam asked earlier.....what is a valid reason for war anymore?
[/quote]
IT boils down to one's understanding of what actually happened here. In the barest sense of the concept, is this a valid reason to go to war? Of course, any alliance is free to sponsor [i]agents provocateur[/i] in order to facilitate a preemptive strike. But, anyone that thinks this was not a setup is just woefully ignorant.