A Sad GOONS Announcement

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293432938' post='2555102']
Well the "alliance as allies" thing becomes less and less irrelevant as it becomes indirect. This isn't about GOD allying TOP, this is about GOD hating TOP so much that they get up in arms over an ally of an ally allying TOP. This isn't about GOD not wanting to be directly allied to TOP, this is about them hating TOP and wanting TOP to be on the opposite side in the next war.
[/quote]
No, I'm fairly sure it has more to do with the fact that GOD doesn't like your policy of hunting Polar nor do they believe that you can control what your government has described as "a damn dog at the edge of its leash" the way you apparently think you can. I've heard plenty about how the treaty with TOP was born out of a mutual respect and understanding, and I'm willing to grant you that as things are very rarely black and white; however, under the current circumstances and considering everything I've heard, I'd be very hard pressed to believe there weren't other considerations that were major contributing factors.

And for the record, I say this as someone who has personally had nothing but positive interactions with TOP since the war and probably would have worked to build more of a concrete relationship out of the nice talks we had during the summer myself if the... extreme distaste for an alliance one of the members of my bloc is allied to wasn't part of the equation.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Delta1212

[Scorbolt]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1293435509' post='2555135']
No, I'm fairly sure it has more to do with the fact that GOD doesn't like your policy of hunting Polar nor do they believe that you can control what your government has described as "a damn dog at the edge of its leash" the way you apparently think you can. I've heard plenty about how the treaty with TOP was born out of a mutual respect and understanding, and I'm willing to grant you that as things are very rarely black and white; however, under the current circumstances and considering everything I've heard, I'd be very hard pressed to believe there weren't other considerations that were major contributing factors.

And for the record, I say this as someone who has personally had nothing but positive interactions with TOP since the war and probably would have worked to build more of a concrete relationship out of the nice talks we had during the summer myself if the... extreme distaste for an alliance one of the members of my bloc is allied to wasn't part of the equation.
[/quote]

Ah, the IRON factor. I fail to even begin to see how a perceived policy of penguin hunting in TOP (and MK?) would even begin to factor into GODs relationship with GOONs though?

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Scorbolt' timestamp='1293437325' post='2555138']
Ah, the IRON factor. I fail to even begin to see how a perceived policy of penguin hunting in TOP (and MK?) would even begin to factor into GODs relationship with GOONs though?
[/quote]
And you misunderstood the reference.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1293434578' post='2555119']
Honestly? Very little NPO did had much effect on me, directly, until they attacked OV. I don't actually hate them and I'm not sure I ever did - they were an enemy that needed to be taken down and that was that. The things TOP has done certainly haven't been worse from an abstract standpoint, but I have every reason to like them less personally.[/quote]
What NPO did might not have effected [i]you[/i] personally, but they effected a lot of other people very heavily.

[quote]I'm kinda curious how you guys justify being allied to them after all that WotC stuff, though. I suppose they just blamed NPO for everything?
[/quote]
What did TOP have to do with MK in the WoTC?

[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1293434758' post='2555121']
Also, given the choice, roll NPO and keep TOP at arm's length (in before do something about it).

Given no choice, TOP by a country mile. I'm sure someone who's been around longer will dredge up the full list of ex-allies that found themselves on the wrong end of an Initiative or Q/1v rolling.
[/quote]
This is reasonable. Is 3 treaties away not a reasonable enough "arm's length" for you?

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1293435509' post='2555135']
No, I'm fairly sure it has more to do with the fact that GOD doesn't like your policy of hunting Polar nor do they believe that you can control what your government has described as "a damn dog at the edge of its leash" the way you apparently think you can. I've heard plenty about how the treaty with TOP was born out of a mutual respect and understanding, and I'm willing to grant you that as things are very rarely black and white; however, under the current circumstances and considering everything I've heard, I'd be very hard pressed to believe there weren't other considerations that were major contributing factors.

And for the record, I say this as someone who has personally had nothing but positive interactions with TOP since the war and probably would have worked to build more of a concrete relationship out of the nice talks we had during the summer myself if the... extreme distaste for an alliance one of the members of my bloc is allied to wasn't part of the equation,[/quote]
MK has a "policy" of "hunting" Polar? That's news to me. Though we certainly are wary of them, especially after the whole WCE thing. Nor did this come up when we directly asked him what his issue with TOP was.

[Aurion]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293438853' post='2555146']
This is reasonable. Is 3 treaties away not a reasonable enough "arm's length" for you?
[/quote]

I would say we're at arm's length from them as things stand now, it's unlikely we will deal with TOP directly. The prospect of doing such doesn't exactly fill me with holiday cheer.

It doesn't make the cancellation less of a somber occasion, and I do feel like we're being unfair to GOONS. There's no doing anything about it now even were anyone of a mind to go back.

The action has been taken, and the consequences will have to be dealt with. Same as anything else.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Aurion

[Scorbolt]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1293438373' post='2555142']
And you misunderstood the reference.
[/quote]

Silly me, I was thinking Polar had two treaties w/ SF.

That paragraph reeks of a personal tone so forgive me for extrapolating that your reference was talking about your own extreme distaste rather than TOPs.

[Thorgrum]

As a casual observer who has read most of the thread what is perplexing is 2 fold. first why anyone is upset or surprised at the manner in which Xiph communicated his displeasure? second and most importantly, why anyone would be upset at his proclomation and decision at all? Would you all want to be allied (through multiple chains of course) to someone who didnt like your allies?

Its like the people who whine about war, then a war comes and they whine they want it finished, then whine about reps or something else. Xiph is doing it right and playing the way I believe it was all meant to be played. It's always been rather humourous to watch the clamoring idiots give thier hails etc to their factions PR but this is a good thing for all involved. If the tantrum didnt happen now, it would have likely happened at a time when the balance of leverage was more relevant to the timing of events.

He did you all a favor.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Thorgrum

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1293147472' post='2552054']I'm very much aware of the history between our two alliances but what is strange is the level of dislike/hatred. It's very much one sided.[/quote]

All of my interactions with TOP were positive and I can safely say that, aside from a few members, RoK doesn't really have an issue with TOP as an alliance. We mostly just feel that Crymson is a d-bag.

Anyway. Even if we hated you, I doubt we'd cancel on anyone because an ally of an ally signed with you. We're two and three degrees from several alliances we truly hate and have yet to drop an ally because of it. Then again, I am no longer leading RoK, so you'll have to take anything I say as "unofficial" ...

[Crymson]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1293472839' post='2555350']
All of my interactions with TOP were positive and I can safely say that, aside from a few members, RoK doesn't really have an issue with TOP as an alliance. [b]We mostly just feel that Crymson is a d-bag.[/b]

Anyway. Even if we hated you, I doubt we'd cancel on anyone because an ally of an ally signed with you. We're two and three degrees from several alliances we truly hate and have yet to drop an ally because of it. Then again, I am no longer leading RoK, so you'll have to take anything I say as "unofficial" ...
[/quote]

I can't deny that I did a terrible job and was often out of control (emotionally) during my last two terms in office, and I also wasn't so great in the term preceding those two. It had been some time since I had enjoyed being in government, and it had become a very stressful activity for me. In any event, my mistakes began when government work started to be a stressful and agonizing activity. Unfortunately, I was so addicted to it that I wasn't even aware of the above. More, I wasn't even aware that I was addicted. It took me three months of forcing myself to abstain from all alliance work for me to realize all of the above.

Sadly for my alliance, I realized it far too late. I honestly did feel very guilty for some time about the mistakes I'd made while leading the alliance. I'm past it now, but I still wish that others would not punish TOP for my own errors.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Crymson

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1293483073' post='2555452']Sadly for my alliance, I realized it far too late. I honestly did feel very guilty for some time about the mistakes I'd made while leading the alliance. I'm past it now, but [b]I still wish that others would not punish TOP for my own errors.[/b]
[/quote]


I don't. Like I said, I never had an issue with TOP, I only had an issue with you. I never held it against the alliance, I just wasn't a fan of you leading it.

Having said that, your post was honest and humble. It might not mean much, but I am impressed.

[WarriorConcept]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1293484183' post='2555468']

Having said that, your post was honest and humble. It might not mean much, but I am impressed.
[/quote]

I agree, takes a man to admit that.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='WarriorConcept' timestamp='1293485771' post='2555493']
I agree, takes a man to admit that.
[/quote]
Yup, most people would come up with ways to blame someone else rather than admit to it.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1293363666' post='2554311']
I'm not in the habit of revealing my sources. Sorry, but no.
[/quote]
I'll reveal your source:

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

[hizzy]

HAHA I GET IT! ITS FUNNY CAUSE HE DOESNT HAVE ONE!

THATS WHAT SHE SAID!

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1293472839' post='2555350']
All of my interactions with TOP were positive and I can safely say that, aside from a few members, RoK doesn't really have an issue with TOP as an alliance. We mostly just feel that Crymson is a d-bag.

Anyway. Even if we hated you, I doubt we'd cancel on anyone because an ally of an ally signed with you. We're two and three degrees from several alliances we truly hate and have yet to drop an ally because of it. Then again, I am no longer leading RoK, so you'll have to take anything I say as "unofficial" ...
[/quote]
I was actually referring to the history between us and GOD, my apologizes for not clarifying. I'm with you in that almost every dealing I've ever had with RoK, wither it be with officials or non officials, were very pleasant.

[quote]And for the record, I say this as someone who has personally had nothing but positive interactions with TOP since the war and probably would have worked to build more of a concrete relationship out of the nice talks we had during the summer myself if the... extreme distaste for an alliance one of the members of my bloc is allied to wasn't part of the equation. [/quote]
I figured as much, however, the conversations were enjoyable.

[Some-Guy]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1293432018' post='2555091']
TO be fair, it's a pretty hard call between being tied to NPO or TOP. It's like, you would rather be dumped in a tub of boiling water or have all of your limbs cut off with a rusty spoon? You can make [i]really[/i] convincing arguments against either one. Of course, at least the guys in TOP who hated us the most, like SomeGuy and Crymson, aren't in charge any more. That's probably a few more points for them. Maybe it'd make it more like having all of your limbs cut off but one.
[/quote]

Sure, we disagreed a fair amount, but I didn't (and indeed don't) hate GOD.

Why would you say such a thing?!?

The only people from Karma that I hate(d) reside in NPO, since their [i]stupid[/i] actions during peace negotiations with OV put TOP in a amazingly crap position.

And, do you know what? I'm kinda over it now.

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Some-Guy' timestamp='1293500819' post='2555706']
Sure, we disagreed a fair amount, but I didn't (and indeed don't) hate GOD.

Why would you say such a thing?!?

The only people from Karma that I hate(d) reside in NPO, since their [i]stupid[/i] actions during peace negotiations with OV put TOP in a amazingly crap position.

And, do you know what? I'm kinda over it now.
[/quote]

funny, I hate TOP for almost the exact same reason. the [i]stupid[/i] actions during the war put GOD in an amazingly crap position.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1293498895' post='2555676']
HAHA I GET IT! ITS FUNNY CAUSE HE DOESNT HAVE ONE!

THATS WHAT SHE SAID!
[/quote]

Funny because I sat there for ten seconds after clicking it thinking " Y IT NO WORK!? "

Then the " Ohhhh I get it " moment came.

Well played bigwoody.

Edited December 28, 2010 by BlkAK47_002

[NeCoHo]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293419360' post='2554927']
That's pretty astonishing. [b]NPO would jump at the opportunity to stab you in the back and get revenge for Karma.[/b]

TOP? You're barely on their radar. And it's quite ridiculous to argue that some of the mistakes they made in Karma come even close to trumping all the things that NPO did before Karma.
[/quote]

I'm so glad that you're in charge of making Pacifican policy these days. [i]Not.[/i]

Take your perceptions elsewhere and stop imposing it on others like it's some transparent fit for everyone and all situations.

[Azaghul]

[quote name='CptGodzilla' timestamp='1293509313' post='2555901']
funny, I hate TOP for almost the exact same reason. the [i]stupid[/i] actions during the war put GOD in an amazingly crap position.
[/quote]
What position did they put GOD in, exactly?

[quote name='NeCoHo' timestamp='1293510363' post='2555931']
I'm so glad that you're in charge of making Pacifican policy these days. [i]Not.[/i]

Take your perceptions elsewhere and stop imposing it on others like it's some transparent fit for everyone and all situations.
[/quote]


That doesn't make any sense.

[Johnny Apocalypse]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293511935' post='2555955']
What position did they put GOD in, exactly?




That doesn't make any sense.
[/quote]

He's implying they've changed., hehe

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1293511935' post='2555955']
What position did they put GOD in, exactly?
[/quote]
In consideration of Crymson's fairly impressive statement of remorse, I'll suggest you ask him or someone else involved rather than plastering the issue all over the OWF for the umpteen millionth time.

[hizzy]

I wanna know too so after you ask Crymson can you please plaster it all over the OWF for the umpteen millionth time?

[Alterego]

Someone has been too long at the helm and should probably take a break for a while.

[Blue Lightning]

[quote name='Delta1212' timestamp='1293519443' post='2556047']
In consideration of Crymson's fairly impressive statement of remorse, I'll suggest you ask him or someone else involved rather than plastering the issue all over the OWF for the umpteen millionth time.
[/quote]
Fun times.