Tech Raiding popularity poll

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1291129341' post='2526534']
So now GOONS gets to determine what is and is not a 'real alliance'?
[/quote]

Yes, we get to determine, for ourselves, what constitutes a legitimate alliance. Just as any other alliances does.

edit: In other words, what Sardonic said.

Edited November 30, 2010 by SirWilliam

[ktarthan]

I love raiding, and it certainly has been, over the long run, profitable for me. Raids are just so hard to come by once you get past 10 or 15K NS though.

[Il Impero Romano]

Ah yes, it's been a while since we've had one of these.

Everybody get your rage on.

[Itsuki Koizumi]

it's alright, Umbrella managed to convince me to love it :v

[nippy]

[quote name='memoryproblems' timestamp='1291129341' post='2526534']
its still useful if i ever find somebody i dislike unaligned.

I think its a rather crappy policy, and its why we can't have nice things.
[/quote]

Well, [b]thank you[/b], Captain Hypocrisy.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1291142387' post='2526614']
Everybody get your rage on.
[/quote]

You first.

[Fernando12]

I love tech raiding!!!
I don't disagree with tech raiding, but I don't participate in it myself.
I hate tech raiding. Even this poll is GOON's fault!!!

These ^ are seriously the options? Not voting as these options are way too vague.

Obviously I am opposed to tech raiding. Not because it's evil or wrong. But because I see it as a waste of time and precious funds.

It wastes time when a nation should be growing to become a better nation to in the future contribute on a greater scale to the alliance during war and during peace. An active member needs to be "growed" if you will. Wars are never won in the low irrelevant tiers. An active member needs to grow and begin developing wonders and buying tech and doing all the things necessary to become an mid to upper tier nation. Tech raiding delays this.

Like wise in peace time a nation that is not "growed" will contribute little. It can be argued that they would contribute by selling tech to larger nations. Yes, but it should only be for the 3 months or so that it takes to grow to 3,999 infra with $3mil/100tech deals. Plus, if this active member is raiding he could very easily find himself getting his butt kicked by a small but experienced nation. All this aid would be wasted. All this tech that should be getting delivered would have to be delayed or not delivered at all.

That is why I am against tech raiding.

Further, yes we do get into situations such as what GOONS does. But, quite honestly the solution to not getting raided is by opening and reading a recruitment message or going to player created alliances...simple steps lead you to join an alliance of your choice. Get an AA and no raiding will occur besides the noob now and then that could attack you. It's rare once you're on an AA. I went my entire growth period with out ever being hit. The only risk if you do have an AA is if that AA is unprotected which could open you up to the vultures.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Fernando12

[Wilfried]

I enjoy a occasional tech raid but I don't do it that often.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1291155885' post='2526775']
An active member needs to grow and begin developing wonders and buying tech and doing all the things necessary to become an mid to upper tier nation. [b]Tech raiding delays this.[/b]
[/quote]
As long as the raider is smart, this is statistically false.

Edited November 30, 2010 by ktarthan

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

I tech raided once, long ago. He was unaligned, and myself and a few others (back in CNE) attacked him.

He then got on OWF and posted a poem about how we brought his life great misery and such, things like "My 5 shining moments of joy in the day crushed beneath your jackboots" or some crap. I felt such pity for him that I nearly stopped raiding him.

Nearly.

[Mergerberger II]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1291128592' post='2526530']
I'm going to guess that "forcing newbies to beg for peace" is directed at us. Congrats at once again missing the point, we do not do that. They merely have to join a real alliance.
[/quote]

Having a Mercy Board and forcing those who are tech raided to participate in your silly games which do nothing more than promote your amusement at the cost of the victim is more than likely what he meant. Essentially, you do force them, and while you do not have them 'beg' for peace per se, it still is a similar action.



[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"][size="2"][quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1291159184' post='2526816']
As long as the raider is smart, this is statistically false.
[/quote][/size][/font]

Any sort of war made once you are above the level of a small nation is very rarely profitable in any way, unless the opponent does not retaliate. As for 'statistically false', where exactly are these statistics?

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Edited November 30, 2010 by Mergerberger II

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1291160356' post='2526828']
Having a Mercy Board and forcing those who are tech raided to participate in your silly games which do nothing more than promote your amusement at the cost of the victim is more than likely what he meant. Essentially, you do force them, and while you do not have them 'beg' for peace per se, it still is a similar action.
[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font]
[font="arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif"] [/font]
[/quote]

You know, if you PM GOONS leadership (respectfully) in-game, they'll typically leave you alone after the war cycles out.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Ernesto Che Guevara

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1291160356' post='2526828']
Having a Mercy Board and forcing those who are tech raided to participate in your silly games which do nothing more than promote your amusement at the cost of the victim is more than likely what he meant. Essentially, you do force them, and while you do not have them 'beg' for peace per se, it still is a similar action.
[/quote]
Like I was saying in the very post you quoted no less, that is not, nor has ever been, our policy.

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Mergerberger II' timestamp='1291160356' post='2526828']
Having a Mercy Board and forcing those who are tech raided to participate in your silly games which do nothing more than promote your amusement at the cost of the victim is more than likely what he meant. Essentially, you do force them, and while you do not have them 'beg' for peace per se, it still is a similar action.
[/quote]
I generally don't equate "providing as an option" to "forcing", but if that's your bag be my guest.

[quote]
Any sort of war made once you are above the level of a small nation is very rarely profitable in any way, unless the opponent does not retaliate. As for 'statistically false', where exactly are these statistics?
[/quote]
Key words: "[i]if the raider is smart.[/i]" A smart raider will find targets that are most likely to be profitable, so it simply follows that their raids will also tend to be profitable. I say "statistically" because not every battle outcome is 100% predictable, so there is always a margin of error, and I can't unequivocally state that "All smart tech raiding will be profitable."

[Grumpdogg]

[quote name='caleb ryals' timestamp='1291084292' post='2526211']
I started this poll just to get an idea of the general opinion held of tech raiding and to see whether the majority of CN was for or against it.
[/quote]

No you didn't, otherwise you wouldn't have phrased the last option in such a 'lulz' way which rendered the extraction of any meaning from the results impossible.

[JonnyCraig]

I love using basic game functions as well!!!

[James I]

I certainly do not enjoy tech raiding, but I recognise its value and would not pass up an opportunity to raid an appropriate target.

[Baldr]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1291159184' post='2526816']
As long as the raider is smart, this is statistically false.
[/quote]

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/allAlliances_display.asp?Page=1&Order=ASC&Field=Average_Strength"]http://www.cybernations.net/allAlliances_display.asp?Page=1&Order=ASC&Field=Average_Strength[/url]

CN recognizes 177 alliances. Sorting from lowest average NS (in the #1 spot) to highest, GOONS is in the #35 spot of 177. Most of the "alliances" recognized by CN which have lower average NS are applicant AA's.

That's what the statistics tell us.

I suppose you can argue that GOONS members aren't smart, though, if you choose, and back up your argument that way.

[KingEd]

The problem with the game and its continually decreasing population is [i]not tech raiding.[/i]

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=400844"]Exhibit A:[/url]

[b]Note:[/b] Due to this nation being 22 days inactive, the link above will only work for 3 more days.

Resources: Lumber/Wheat - Which are IDEAL resources.
Created: 4/27/2010 2:13:58 PM
Age: 217 Days
Alliance: Regnum Invictorium [i]Invicta[/i]
Alliance Seniority: 217 Days

[b]Casualties:[/b] 0

Conclusion: Said nation joined an alliance which did not keep them interested in the game nor inform it on the basics. If they did, he ignored it. However, I find it hard to believe that he played for 217 days and didn't even bother [b]at all[/b] to buy 1 Infrastructure, or 1 of anything for that matter. His casualties being at ZERO prove that Tech-Raiding wasn't a factor; but that instead, lack of interest / knowledge was.

217 days of doing nothing, probably paying bills, and collecting taxes. Fun game!, huh? Can you blame him and the many others like him for letting his nation go to 25 days and deleting - thus leading to a decrease in population.

Nonetheless, I'm a big proponent for Tech-Raiding. Not only does it encourage smaller nations to find an alliance and become educated, but it also gives them a chance at surviving BOB and one day becoming involved in the politics and the other things that make many of us OWF Posters immerse ourselves into the game - probably making a post like this 12 months down the line.

Lastly, I checked how many nations on BOB are currently under [b]1,000 NS[/b] and as of now there are [b]4,525[/b]/[i]20690[/i] - Roughly 21% of the population.

Edited December 1, 2010 by KingEd

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Baldr' timestamp='1291164405' post='2526868']
[url="http://www.cybernations.net/allAlliances_display.asp?Page=1&Order=ASC&Field=Average_Strength"]http://www.cybernations.net/allAlliances_display.asp?Page=1&Order=ASC&Field=Average_Strength[/url]

CN recognizes 177 alliances. Sorting from lowest average NS (in the #1 spot) to highest, GOONS is in the #35 spot of 177. Most of the "alliances" recognized by CN which have lower average NS are applicant AA's.

That's what the statistics tell us.
[/quote]
Do you purposely try to argue the worst possible points just to see how far you can take them?

That isn't statistics. That's two points of data which don't actually show any sort of correlation, let alone causation.

Edit: GATO is ranked just 6 above us in ANS, and they've got sanction. Ask them how much they raid.

Edited December 1, 2010 by ktarthan

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1291155885' post='2526775']
It wastes time when a nation should be growing to become a better nation to in the future contribute on a greater scale to the alliance during war and during peace. An active member needs to be "growed" if you will. Wars are never won in the low irrelevant tiers. An active member needs to grow and begin developing wonders and buying tech and doing all the things necessary to become an mid to upper tier nation. Tech raiding delays this.
[/quote]

Where do people keep getting this idea? If I raid a tech heavy nation and gain 5 tech a battle, I'm gaining 70 tech overall which is equal to about ~1,000,000. If you compound this intake of tech with doing 3/50 tech deals you're basically getting three million dollars per deal, so you're not losing any cash.

By keeping my raid slots full with inactive, tech-heavy newbs I can gain 600 tech every twenty days (presuming I win every battle). While doing 3/50s fifteen million dollars costs me 250 tech (that's five deals) mathematically every twenty days (the amount of time to complete a 3/50) I gain fifteen million, plus or minus a few million, and 350 tech. If the nation fights back and you emerge victorious in your defense (I usually do ) that gives me more cash.

So, point is, you're wrong. Tech raiding done right [b]improves[/b] growth rate.

[Australian Warlord]

It's a bit pathetic in my opinion. If you want to war, then why not be man enough (or woman enough) to actually have a proper battle instead of picking on new players like some schoolyard bullies. If I ever leave my alliance, then the first thing I'd do is to hit some of these pathetic excuses of players.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1291128592' post='2526530']
I'm going to guess that "forcing newbies to beg for peace" is directed at us. Congrats at once again missing the point, we do not do that. They merely have to join a real alliance.
[/quote]

What if they are not familiar enough with the game to do so? What if they go to join an alliance and that alliance says you have to peace your war first? There are many variables to joining a "real alliance."

Why not let members hit one on one and learn how to fight. If you raid...do so at your nations risk. Guess that would take courage...and no, I am not speaking of your alliance. But if the shoe fits...


EDIT: TBH, I joined the Legion a couple days into this game and didn't even know the rest of their forum existed for a month. The part I went to was the war forum, and there were so many nations hitting them that I was in a constant state of war for the first 6 months. I doubt I'd be here if I didn't get that.

Is tech raiding killing this game? I don't know. If there was no tech raiding I'm sure there would be plenty of rogue nations to play with though. Of course my start was at the height of the game.

Top that with nations getting bored due to the political aspect becoming mundane, and alliance wars which are not obvious curb stomps becoming obsolete...and you get what we have. A game that is losing nations. How many long time nations have let their nations go in the past year or two? TOO MANY!!

From GWI to GWIII we have lost some great characters. Many other greats have been silenced due to political fears.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Chalaskan

[Vanilla Napalm]

[quote name='ktarthan' timestamp='1291165737' post='2526884']
Do you purposely try to argue the worst possible points just to see how far you can take them?

That isn't statistics. That's two points of data which don't actually show any sort of correlation, let alone causation.

Edit: GATO is ranked just 6 above us in ANS, and they've got sanction. Ask them how much they raid.
[/quote]

It's clear that all raiding alliances have low ANS, just look at Umbre...
Alright well maybe not them, but Pois... err, Mushroo...

Well maybe not them, but it's clear that GOONS have a low ANS because of raiding. If i argue enough, that whole 'nation age' concept will become immaterial.

[Karolina]

Don't tech raid, but I couldn't care less if people do.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Karolina