Announcements from the SOS Brigade

[Kevanovia]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288473558' post='2497495']
Wrong. It was 80% since we were founded. I believe it was LOWERED, much to my chagrin. It should not be easy to impeach a leader.
[/quote]


Funny, someone told me on IRC that Elrich changed it to be higher when he was Chief. Now I don't know what to believe.

It seems like neither of us know what we're talking about.

[Omniscient1]

The last few times I've ignored drama, because I thought it was dumb it almost caused wars. Is a war about to come from this? If not I'll just go ahead and ignore it like I was going to originally.

[Hereno]

Oh hey guys. So, a few of us were just browsing the wiki and happened upon the actual text of the now-cancelled Tetris-SOS Brigade treaty ([url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Yuki_Still_Plays_Way_Too_Much_Tetris_or_How_I_Learned_to_Stop_Worrying_and_Love_Korobeiniki]here[/url]).

[quote]

1 Text of the Treaty
1.1 Мир (Peace)
1.2 Коробейники (Korobeiniki)
1.3 Оборона (Defense)
1.4 Опция (Option)
1.5 Агрессия (Aggression)
1.6 Катюша (Katyusha)
1.7 Прекращение (Termination)
1.8 Калинка (Kalinka)
1.9 Signatories
[/quote]

If you'll note, there are clauses for peace, defense, option/aggression, and termination. There are several other clauses with other random songs made by artists who were not signatories as well. The one clause you will not find would be the 'information' clause. While you may argue that information is [i]implied[/i] because of it already being an MDoAP, this is up for debate, although I wouldn't recommend it. What is not, however, is that Tetris had any [i]obligation[/i] to ever tell SOS (sorry I don't know how to complete the acronym) much of anything (see: nothing). So in all honesty, even if we did do the things you accuse us of (which we did not), we still wouldn't be in the wrong, as far as the treaty itself is concerned.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288477509' post='2497534']
All of which has nothing to do with what I said. And quite frankly, I don't have the time (OOC: no computer, and making any long post is time-consuming on the Zune) or desire to correct you right now. That said, I once considered you a friend, interesting how eager you've been to attack and insult me as of late.
[/quote]

anyone who knows me knows that i don't hold back on anyone, friend or not. To me this is not really personal. You are attacking an alliance that has friends of mine in it and is a protectorate of IAA now. These attacks are being done with a malicious intent to smear them. With that said, the attacks lack any viable evidence whatsoever but is basically you, Arrnea, and MvP stating that Katsumi and others attempted to coup Arrnea. i don't believe people without ample evidence of which you have absolutely none. Friend or not (which i do consider you a friend still) i don't take things like this lightly. Then to have Arrnea mention Lavo and IAA in the OP and his attempt at smearing my alliance's name, well that just pissed me off.

i have been attacking your argument mostly. though when it comes to you stating that anyone attempted a coup, well i was waiting on evidence. this OP provided none of that as have you or anyone else. thus, regardless of our friendship, you seem to be lying. especially since the OP that Arrnea posted, stated that there was no evidence that a coup attempt or planning took place. thus, to have you, Arrnea, and MvP go around for the last few days claiming that NsO attempted a coup, well that is what i call lying. if you are offended, i am sorry, but i don't hold back for anyone. next time don't lie and i won't have to call you out on it. i still want you in IAA but if you don't like me anymore, that is understood. though you should talk to RandomInterrupt about how i get when i see something wrong. (about the TPF-NoV war and his posting Polaris support for TPF)


[quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1288480819' post='2497565']
That's actually a plurality.

/nitpick
[/quote]

meh, you are correct. i was in a rush and got it mixed up.


[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1288487808' post='2497650']
Your duplicity in this affair disgusts me.
[/quote]

the fact that you are knowingly lying about any coup attempt or planning is far worse than anything Lavo may have done. and before you state anything, Arrnea provided all the proof you guys have on a coup attempt or planning being done, which amounts to the word coup appearing a few times in a conversation. no context has yet to be provided because it can't be provided. no logs have been provided because they can't be provided. and from what i gather from the OP, the people who mentioned it to Arrnea did not even state that a coup was being planned, just some people mentioned coup and they got worried.

so take your disgust and look in a mirror.

[Locke]

[quote name='Kevanovia' timestamp='1288498298' post='2497806']
Funny, someone told me on IRC that Elrich changed it to be higher when he was Chief. Now I don't know what to believe.

It seems like neither of us know what we're talking about.
[/quote]
I was gone during most of Elrich's reign, but I'm pretty sure no charter changes were made while he was in charge.

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1288500248' post='2497817']
Oh hey guys. So, a few of us were just browsing the wiki and happened upon the actual text of the now-cancelled Tetris-SOS Brigade treaty ([url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Yuki_Still_Plays_Way_Too_Much_Tetris_or_How_I_Learned_to_Stop_Worrying_and_Love_Korobeiniki]here[/url]).

If you'll note, there are clauses for peace, defense, option/aggression, and termination. There are several other clauses with other random songs made by artists who were not signatories as well. The one clause you will not find would be the 'information' clause. While you may argue that information is [i]implied[/i] because of it already being an MDoAP, this is up for debate, although I wouldn't recommend it. What is not, however, is that Tetris had any [i]obligation[/i] to ever tell SOS (sorry I don't know how to complete the acronym) much of anything (see: nothing). So in all honesty, even if we did do the things you accuse us of (which we did not), we still wouldn't be in the wrong, as far as the treaty itself is concerned.
[/quote]
This coming from the one who told me this?
[quote]01:51 <Hereno>: might as well -shrug-
01:51 <Hereno>: i mean, straight up, im fairly confident none of us would sit around and let a coup happen if we knew that's what it was
01:51 <Hereno>: pollard included
...
01:58 <Hereno>: well
01:58 <Hereno>: i wasnt even gov, and i didn't know jack !@#$, and if i did i'd be honest and just say so
01:58 <Hereno>: i am going to make the same claim of my fellow tetrads
01:59 <Hereno>: but ill post these all in our logs section, and go read them
01:59 <Hereno>: and ill probably have logan or pollard get back to you on it because they were actually around, to be honest
...
02:22 <Hereno>: yeah
02:23 <Hereno>: i just really want to make it clear that im positive we knew nothing of a coup, because our business is much more about that than about SOS' internal affairs
02:23 <Hereno>: i mean, it's possible, but extremely unlikely to the point where i'd give you my word on it
02:24 <Hereno>: but yeah, they were well organized as $%&@[/quote]
Here I thought [i]you[/i] would have thought that an MDoAP relationship should involve information sharing when it comes to the matter of your partner's security.
That said, this is what I get for not being around. The original treaty I wrote [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Yuki_Plays_Too_Much_Tetris_or_How_I_Learned_to_Stop_Worrying_and_Love_Korobeiniki#Article_II_-_Intelligence"]had such clauses[/url]:
[quote]Should either party receive information that pertains to the safety or well-being of the other signatory, they will seek to make it known to that signatory. Also, if either signatory has any reason to believe a security breach exists in the other alliance they are to present this concern and any evidence to their other signatory. Additionally, both parties agree not to commit espionage against each other. [/quote]
Its omission was an error. And in any case, comments like these make me wonder:
[quote]03:28 %Logan We would love to welcome you guys, though to the death of one of our allies isn't really the prime way of gaining you xD[/quote]
Clearly he had a reason to believe that there was a threat to the security of the alliance. I asked him myself if he had an alternate explanation and was ignored, then treated to Pollard's insulting manner on our own boards.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1288500976' post='2497822']
anyone who knows me knows that i don't hold back on anyone, friend or not. To me this is not really personal. You are attacking an alliance that has friends of mine in it and is a protectorate of IAA now. These attacks are being done with a malicious intent to smear them. With that said, the attacks lack any viable evidence whatsoever but is basically you, Arrnea, and MvP stating that Katsumi and others attempted to coup Arrnea. i don't believe people without ample evidence of which you have absolutely none. Friend or not (which i do consider you a friend still) i don't take things like this lightly. Then to have Arrnea mention Lavo and IAA in the OP and his attempt at smearing my alliance's name, well that just pissed me off.

i have been attacking your argument mostly. though when it comes to you stating that anyone attempted a coup, well i was waiting on evidence. this OP provided none of that as have you or anyone else. thus, regardless of our friendship, you seem to be lying. especially since the OP that Arrnea posted, stated that there was no evidence that a coup attempt or planning took place. thus, to have you, Arrnea, and MvP go around for the last few days claiming that NsO attempted a coup, well that is what i call lying. if you are offended, i am sorry, but i don't hold back for anyone. next time don't lie and i won't have to call you out on it. i still want you in IAA but if you don't like me anymore, that is understood. though you should talk to RandomInterrupt about how i get when i see something wrong. (about the TPF-NoV war and his posting Polaris support for TPF)
[/quote]
Except I have no "intent to smear" and I can back up every word of mine with factual proof. And the attack against Lavo was aimed [i]solely[/i] at Lavo. That said, Lavo informing us that Voodoo knew what was said in #sakura is a bit saddening and disturbing to me.

You have been calling me (and my friends, while I'm at it) a liar and an instigator, and in no way attempted to attack my argument other than saying it is wrong.

[Logan]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288483694' post='2497604']
Well, I'm only one man, and one man with limited IRC access. We could have had at least your part behind us now if I could be as active as I used to be. That said, I think the reason this discourse went public so quickly us because Tetris jumped the gun in cancelling. We were willing and trying to settle the issue before they went public, so Arrnea wanted our side as to our reasons out to counter uninformed opinions.
[/quote]

We weren't going to cancel at all until you began dragging us into these wonderful conversations. Hereno and I have been more than willing to talk with you in private about this, but you guys would rather have you public slugfest.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288503638' post='2497837']
Clearly he had a reason to believe that there was a threat to the security of the alliance. I asked him myself if he had an alternate explanation and was ignored, then treated to Pollard's insulting manner on our own boards.
[/quote]

You keep bringing this log up like its important. I tried to get back to you multiple times on IRC and you weren't around. Its a game of phone tag that you are trying to blow out of proportion to make yourselves look less worse than us, like this entire grandstanding spectacle has been. So here is my response that I was waiting around to give you. Yes, a large portion of members defecting from the alliance would probably be considered a detriment to said alliance. A security threat? Hardly. I would have rather had SOS remained solidified and stable, but that didn't seem to happen. We tried to remain friends with both sides, that was our greatest fault I suppose.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288503638' post='2497837']
Here I thought [i]you[/i] would have thought that an MDoAP relationship should involve information sharing when it comes to the matter of your partner's security.
[/quote]

I do think it should involve information sharing, and I would most likely share information regardless of there being a clause, out of mutual benefit if nothing else. That doesn't change that it's not actually required in the active version of the treaty.

[quote]
That said, this is what I get for not being around. The original treaty I wrote [url="http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Yuki_Plays_Too_Much_Tetris_or_How_I_Learned_to_Stop_Worrying_and_Love_Korobeiniki#Article_II_-_Intelligence"]had such clauses[/url]:

Its omission was an error.[/quote]

I agree, this omission is an error. However, as I said before, that still doesn't change that it was omitted.

[quote]
Clearly he had a reason to believe that there was a threat to the security of the alliance. I asked him myself if he had an alternate explanation and was ignored, then treated to Pollard's insulting manner on our own boards.
[/quote]

Some would argue that the accusations and level of distrust from SOS Brigade were insulting. Some would say that SOS's behavior in the NsO DoE thread were insulting, or maybe even that posting this giant call-out thread was insulting. The way you guys attacked Pollard's integrity without even having talked to him about it is quite insulting. If I were him, even if you had talked to me before making your accusations, I would still be quite upset and may have even shown my discontent in a similar manner. You can't really sit there and accuse us of supporting a coup in an MDoAP partner and treat us the way SOS Brigade did on the OWF and then give us a hard time over that upsetting us.

Edited to fix a grammatical error.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Hereno

[Locke]

[quote name='Logan' timestamp='1288504311' post='2497842']
We weren't going to cancel at all until you began dragging us into these wonderful conversations. Hereno and I have been more than willing to talk with you in private about this, but you guys would rather have you public slugfest.

You keep bringing this log up like its important. I tried to get back to you multiple times on IRC and you weren't around. Its a game of phone tag that you are trying to blow out of proportion to make yourselves look less worse than us, like this entire grandstanding spectacle has been. So here is my response that I was waiting around to give you. Yes, a large portion of members defecting from the alliance would probably be considered a detriment to said alliance. A security threat? Hardly. I would have rather had SOS remained solidified and stable, but that didn't seem to happen. We tried to remain friends with both sides, that was our greatest fault I suppose.
[/quote]
I do hope that "you" is third person impersonal, because [i]I[/i] was doing my damn best to talk in private. Then you cancelled.

Yes, and you know from me talking to Hereno that I have little time to be around on IRC. You could have brought it up with Arrnea, as ali did. Or PM'ed me. I can't visit your boards (OOC: Not mobile friendly), but I'm pretty sure you have an SOS account, and you most certainly could have tried to contact me here or at my nation. I was willing to spend as long as it took took to take care of this matter, [i]despite[/i] any misgivings and the feelings of my fellow alliance members. [i]You[/i] jumped the gun and cancelled on us rather than dealing with the issue, which, as I've said elsewhere, isn't exactly going to do wonders to make us believe you. It's akin to Diablofan and Elrich offering their resignations when confronted about their plotting.

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1288504578' post='2497845']
Some would argue that the accusations and level of distrust from SOS Brigade were insulting. Some would say that SOS's behavior in the NsO DoE thread were insulting, or maybe even that posting this giant call-out thread was insulting. The way you guys attacked Pollard's integrity without even having talked to him about it is quite insulting. If I were him, even if you had talked to me before making your accusations, I would still be quite upset and may have even shown my discontent in a similar manner. You can't really sit there and accuse us of supporting a coup in an MDoAP partner and treat us the way SOS Brigade did on the OWF and then give us a hard time over that upsetting us.

Edited to fix a grammatical error.
[/quote]
Arrnea didn't even want this thread out of the alliance boards until matters with our allies were settled. You cancelling on us, apparently, settled it. This would not have been posted if you'd not been so hasty. The behavior of individuals in the DoE could be insulting, but I explained to you before that people were not happy. Not everyone is going to hold their tongue, on either side, but I urged you in that topic to take my and Arrnea's word as worthwhile. Neither of us [i]accused[/i] you of anything, all I did was ask "did you know about it?" I valued that treaty, and I thought you did too, but I don't know what to think after you toss it away so easily and carelessly. I did my !@#$@#$ best to ensure that you were treated like an MDoAP partner, but even before Tetris ever came up as an issue Pollard was hardly treating us the same way. I know I'm not easily reached, but if you've got a problem with us, for Jesus Friggin' Christ, find me so we can talk it out. >.< I gave you the benefit of the doubt, why can't we get the same?

[Hereno]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288505597' post='2497852']
I do hope that "you" is third person impersonal, because [i]I[/i] was doing my damn best to talk in private. Then you cancelled.

Yes, and you know from me talking to Hereno that I have little time to be around on IRC. You could have brought it up with Arrnea, as ali did. Or PM'ed me. I can't visit your boards (OOC: Not mobile friendly), but I'm pretty sure you have an SOS account, and you most certainly could have tried to contact me here or at my nation. I was willing to spend as long as it took took to take care of this matter, [i]despite[/i] any misgivings and the feelings of my fellow alliance members. [i]You[/i] jumped the gun and cancelled on us rather than dealing with the issue, which, as I've said elsewhere, isn't exactly going to do wonders to make us believe you. It's akin to Diablofan and Elrich offering their resignations when confronted about their plotting.


Arrnea didn't even want this thread out of the alliance boards until matters with our allies were settled. You cancelling on us, apparently, settled it. This would not have been posted if you'd not been so hasty. The behavior of individuals in the DoE could be insulting, but I explained to you before that people were not happy. Not everyone is going to hold their tongue, on either side, but I urged you in that topic to take my and Arrnea's word as worthwhile. Neither of us [i]accused[/i] you of anything, all I did was ask "did you know about it?" I valued that treaty, and I thought you did too, but I don't know what to think after you toss it away so easily and carelessly. I did my !@#$@#$ best to ensure that you were treated like an MDoAP partner, but even before Tetris ever came up as an issue Pollard was hardly treating us the same way. I know I'm not easily reached, but if you've got a problem with us, for Jesus Friggin' Christ, find me so we can talk it out. >.< I gave you the benefit of the doubt, why can't we get the same?
[/quote]

We had voted earlier that day to keep the treaty with SOS Brigade (this happened after you talked to me, by the way). We gave you guys the benefit of the doubt, and laid things to rest. Then, Bernkastel came over to me with his 'test of loyalty' from your government. After that, we revisited the issue and instead voted to eliminate the treaty, because you apparently still didn't trust us, even after everything else. Then, instead of taking the cancellation like gentlemen, the sole leader of your alliance posts this thread. We never made a single effort to defame the SOS Brigade. Even in the cancellation, you'll notice that all Tetrads have refrained from posting. Which was another wise move on Pollard's part, in my opinion.

[Locke]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1288506041' post='2497855']
We had voted earlier that day to keep the treaty with SOS Brigade (this happened after you talked to me, by the way). We gave you guys the benefit of the doubt, and laid things to rest. Then, Bernkastel came over to me with his 'test of loyalty' from your government. After that, we revisited the issue and instead voted to eliminate the treaty, because you apparently still didn't trust us, even after everything else. Then, instead of taking the cancellation like gentlemen, the sole leader of your alliance posts this thread. We never made a single effort to defame the SOS Brigade. Even in the cancellation, you'll notice that all Tetrads have refrained from posting. Which was another wise move on Pollard's part, in my opinion.
[/quote]
Allow me to repeat myself: if you have a problem with SOS団, [i]talk to me[/i]. I told you that [i]I[/i] am Tetris' biggest fan here, and [i]I[/i] will do my goddamn best to see irons wrinkled out. So, you were insulted. You don't think many of our members didn't feel the same way? No reason to not slow down and talk things out. My decision power is subject to Arrnea, but that doesn't mean that I can't do anything. I'm the MoFA, I'm the one who's job it is to handle relations. If you'd have just ignored it all pending discussion with me, as I ignored everything pending discussion with you, we'd not be here right now. We could have come to [i]some[/i] amicable solution.

I'll say it again: you were too goddamn hasty, and you abused our and my trust in you in the process.

[Hereno]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288506895' post='2497860']
Allow me to repeat myself: if you have a problem with SOS団, [i]talk to me[/i]. I told you that [i]I[/i] am Tetris' biggest fan here, and [i]I[/i] will do my goddamn best to see irons wrinkled out. So, you were insulted. You don't think many of our members didn't feel the same way? No reason to not slow down and talk things out. My decision power is subject to Arrnea, but that doesn't mean that I can't do anything. I'm the MoFA, I'm the one who's job it is to handle relations. If you'd have just ignored it all pending discussion with me, as I ignored everything pending discussion with you, we'd not be here right now. We could have come to [i]some[/i] amicable solution.

I'll say it again: you were too goddamn hasty, and you abused our and my trust in you in the process.
[/quote]

First off, thanks for posting the acronym so that I can use it instead of typing out the whole name xD

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to tell us we were being too hasty. According to Arrnea, SOS団 was in the process of getting rid of the treaty anyway. As he said, we just beat you to the punch. If you're saying I came into that conversation with a biased mind, that's just incorrect. I read the logs for myself before I told you what I thought, and now know to be true: that we didn't do anything we were "being asked about." If I send you a message asking if you know something, there's reason to believe I suspect that you know about it.

[Logan]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288505597' post='2497852']
I do hope that "you" is third person impersonal, because [i]I[/i] was doing my damn best to talk in private. Then you cancelled.

Yes, and you know from me talking to Hereno that I have little time to be around on IRC. You could have brought it up with Arrnea, as ali did. Or PM'ed me. I can't visit your boards (OOC: Not mobile friendly), but I'm pretty sure you have an SOS account, and you most certainly could have tried to contact me here or at my nation. I was willing to spend as long as it took took to take care of this matter, [i]despite[/i] any misgivings and the feelings of my fellow alliance members. [i]You[/i] jumped the gun and cancelled on us rather than dealing with the issue, which, as I've said elsewhere, isn't exactly going to do wonders to make us believe you. It's akin to Diablofan and Elrich offering their resignations when confronted about their plotting.
[/quote]

The first sentence was impersonal, I know that you were the person to talk to if we were going to get our perspective across. That's why I was hoping to catch you on IRC to talk about it. I haven't had a working SOS account since you switched boards so that was out of the question. I probably should have messaged you about it, but I was hoping we could have a synchronous conversation instead. As you have noted Hereno was very up to discussing this situation, as was I. It seemed to us however your membership would have rather drag this out in public for God and everyone to see than discuss it in private like allies, and we did try to reroute the conversation. I am still willing to discuss this in private but I'm wondering if those efforts will be futile as they have already been. Again, the point doesn't and didn't seem from the outset that fixing ties was in the scope of any of this.

[USMC123]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288477509' post='2497534']
All of which has nothing to do with what I said. And quite frankly, I don't have the time (OOC: no computer, and making any long post is time-consuming on the Zune) or desire to correct you right now. That said, I once considered you a friend, interesting how eager you've been to attack and insult me as of late.
[/quote]

Oh the irony.

[quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1288481483' post='2497572']
3)Tetris and other allies shouldn't have been present in a discussion about a possible impeachment procedure and its aftermath. They're allied to the alliance and, thus, the legitimate group they must talk with is the government, not disgruntled members. They should have been informed by the SOS government that such a procedure was taking place.

4)Failing that, they should have informed the SOS govt of the talk that had just taken place. So yeah, I think it's legit to cancel on them. Anyway, it's always legit to cancel on an ally if you don't think you can trust them anymore.
[/quote]

Sigh. Again, it's not our business what goes on in SOS, and besides, telling them about an impeachment isn't going to stop it. In regards to #4, they knew everything we knew about the impeachment.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288503638' post='2497837']
Words from Page 9.
[/quote]

And what's your point (in regards to Hereno)? I see you quoting a post he made, then quoting some irc logs. One says that if we had known, we still didn't *HAVE* to to tell you, the other says we didn't know and we would have told u if we did. We would have told you, but we didn't know, that doesn't change the fact we technically didn't have to. Besides, I think he was more trying to point out the error in what you guys have been saying in regards to us violating our treaty. Not only does this claim lack any base due to the fact we didn't know, but also because even if your claim was true, we still weren't required to tell you.

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288506895' post='2497860']
Allow me to repeat myself: if you have a problem with SOS団, [i]talk to me[/i]. I told you that [i]I[/i] am Tetris' biggest fan here, and [i]I[/i] will do my goddamn best to see irons wrinkled out. So, you were insulted. You don't think many of our members didn't feel the same way? No reason to not slow down and talk things out. My decision power is subject to Arrnea, but that doesn't mean that I can't do anything. I'm the MoFA, I'm the one who's job it is to handle relations. If you'd have just ignored it all pending discussion with me, as I ignored everything pending discussion with you, we'd not be here right now. We could have come to [i]some[/i] amicable solution.

I'll say it again: you were too goddamn hasty, and you abused our and my trust in you in the process.
[/quote]

Lolwut? We did talk to you, but then you would immediately after come on OWF and bash us. Stop trying to play innocent. As far as hasty, who posted that the treaty was cancelled 10 hours, or whatever it was, early?

[Pollard]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288506895' post='2497860']
I'll say it again: you were too goddamn hasty, and you abused our and my trust in you in the process.
[/quote]

In the time between you saying you wanted to work things out, and the treaty cancellation, I was publicly and privately insulted no fewer than 8 times by members of your alliance. Forgive me if this doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

White liquid in a glass has to be milk.

[Locke]

[quote name='Hereno' timestamp='1288507919' post='2497862']
First off, thanks for posting the acronym so that I can use it instead of typing out the whole name xD

Anyway, I don't think it's fair to tell us we were being too hasty. According to Arrnea, SOS団 was in the process of getting rid of the treaty anyway. As he said, we just beat you to the punch. If you're saying I came into that conversation with a biased mind, that's just incorrect. I read the logs for myself before I told you what I thought, and now know to be true: that we didn't do anything we were "being asked about." If I send you a message asking if you know something, there's reason to believe I suspect that you know about it.
[/quote]
OOC: It used to be in my profile AA field, but it's Halloween.

We hadn't even taken a vote, we were in the discussion stages. As for the rest of it...I've repeated this one too many times, but there were things said in your presence (though as you said, not your awareness) that were certainly the sort of thing that should be passed along. You've said it's an internal matter, but if it was that internal, you shouldn't have been there.

[quote name='Logan' timestamp='1288508864' post='2497866']
The first sentence was impersonal, I know that you were the person to talk to if we were going to get our perspective across. That's why I was hoping to catch you on IRC to talk about it. I haven't had a working SOS account since you switched boards so that was out of the question. I probably should have messaged you about it, but I was hoping we could have a synchronous conversation instead. As you have noted Hereno was very up to discussing this situation, as was I. It seemed to us however your membership would have rather drag this out in public for God and everyone to see than discuss it in private like allies, and we did try to reroute the conversation. I am still willing to discuss this in private but I'm wondering if those efforts will be futile as they have already been. Again, the point doesn't and didn't seem from the outset that fixing ties was in the scope of any of this.
[/quote]
Well, I doubt we'll be able to actually mend much of anything, but I'd be happy to take this to the venue of your choice. Let's let this be the end of our involvement of wasting anyone's time.

[SonOfHoward]

Does that white liquid in a glass comment sound suggestive to anyone or am I just too durnk to be on CN?


o/ TETRIS

[USMC123]

[quote name='SonOfHoward' timestamp='1288513779' post='2497895']
Does that white liquid in a glass comment sound suggestive to anyone or am I just too durnk to be on CN?


o/ TETRIS
[/quote]

You're not the only one. Don't worry.

[Lavo]

[quote name='Michael von Prussia' timestamp='1288495312' post='2497762']
For someone posting in a thread whose theme has been lack of communication between government members, I think failing to inform him would be quite the oversight on your part, don't you?
[/quote]
You know, you're forgetting that I'm not government, that Chimaera isn't FA, and thus doing so isn't my responsibility or obligation. Regardless, seeing as how this drama has unnecessarily blown up, that has been corrected.

[Imperator Honorius]

There is something that I'd like to primarily share with SOS Brigadiers and NsO'ers but is relevant nonetheless to a revelation that has been revealed to me over the wrong I have done to Arrnea:
[quote][15:52:20] <Imperatoru> hey Onyx, what swayed your mind?
[16:06:17] <Aryn_Krest> A lot of things, actually.
[16:06:38] <Imperatoru> care to go in depth?
[16:06:47] <Aryn_Krest> Michaeru's !@#$ mostly, and the fact that no one gave a rats ass that he was doing what he did.
[16:07:24] <Imperatoru> I thought michaeru was somewhat vindicated in doing what he did, actually
[16:07:50] <Aryn_Krest> I... completely disagree. I don't care who you are, if you don't like someone you don't pretend to be their friend.
[16:08:43] <Imperatoru> well, I agree, but disagree... somewhat
[16:10:03] <Aryn_Krest> Do tell.
[16:14:16] <Imperatoru> well, personally, I wouldn't pretend to be someone's friend, but michaeru seemed unhappy with Arrnea's actions as BC and it seemed (to me) an appropriate avenue of revenge for him. Also considering his actions in the recent events of the time, in terms of removal of Elrich & diablo. Which I was nonplussed with led me to support michaeru's plan
[16:24:25] <Aryn_Krest> betrayal is never an appropriate revenge. neither is treason, mainly because both are synonymous... I'm also pissed that I let myself be so easily manipulated after clearly stating my opinion that Haruhi and Dia's removal was justified, because as I continue to state; you can't have someone in government that you don't trust.
[16:25:25] <Imperatoru> Arrnea is paranoid naturally, you realise?
[16:25:53] <Imperatoru> And manipulated, how so?
[16:26:47] <Aryn_Krest> So you're saying when he heard the words 'You're going to be couped' by someone he trusted (Michaeru!) and when confronting them about it, them basically handing over their resignations, he wasn't justified, and was just being paranoid?
[16:27:42] <Imperatoru> I think there should've been more dialogue
[16:27:56] <Imperatoru> to work/iron out issues which led to it
[16:28:38] <Imperatoru> and I thought the removal was very hasty
[16:29:47] <Aryn_Krest> Perhaps you're blinded by the fact that 'coup' and 'impeachment' were used interchangeably; a 'coup' is something -very- serious. You don't just say 'Oh, I guess they're just pissed at me for simple reasons, I should fix that!' No, you say 'Oh !@#$! They're going to take over the alliance!' Coup means to forcefully take over another entity. There is no arguing against a coup; it's either successful
[16:29:48] <Aryn_Krest> or unsuccessful.
[16:30:12] <Imperatoru> it was about impeachment
[16:30:20] Aryn_Krest facepalms.
[16:30:38] <Imperatoru> coup may have been used, but not in it's dictionary meaning
[16:30:59] <Aryn_Krest> Michaeru -came to him- and stated Arrnea, people are plotting a coup.
[16:31:26] <Imperatoru> michaeru did and then went along with it, what?
[16:31:49] <Imperatoru> or was michaeru just playing both sides?
[16:33:29] <Aryn_Krest> Ah, wait, nevermind.
[16:33:31] <Aryn_Krest> I was confused about that.
[16:33:39] <Aryn_Krest> Jens and you came to him.
[16:33:46] <Imperatoru> that's right
[16:33:53] <Aryn_Krest> you both had the opportunity to tell him that Impeachment was used.
[16:33:55] <Aryn_Krest> Why didn't you?
[16:34:26] <Aryn_Krest> That just makes me more pissed at the both of you.
[16:34:59] <Imperatoru> let me find some stuff, I need a refresher of what I told Arrnea exactly
[16:42:07] <Imperatoru> $%&@, I did mention coup
[16:42:11] <Imperatoru>
[16:42:18] <Imperatoru> well now...
[16:43:04] <Imperatoru> but, it wasn't just I who did
[16:43:31] <Imperatoru> because Arrnea said it: "confirms what I already knew, but my other source really doesn't want me to mention it if he was the only place I could have found out"
[16:43:38] <Aryn_Krest> Which was Jens.
[16:43:46] <Aryn_Krest> And Jens never mentioned 'impeachment' either.
[16:43:49] <Imperatoru> more than likely
[16:44:44] <Aryn_Krest> So, I once again recite; Coup means to forcefully take over another entity. There is no arguing against a coup; it's either successful
[16:44:45] <Aryn_Krest> or unsuccessful.
[16:45:52] <Aryn_Krest> So, tell me now; was he being paranoid, or acting as a leader should have?
[16:46:19] <Imperatoru> I probably would've done the same if not more were I in his shoes
[16:46:25] <Imperatoru>
[16:46:42] <Aryn_Krest> So; Michaeru still justified?
[16:46:57] <Imperatoru> not really
[16:47:50] <Imperatoru> $%&@, now this makes me feel really bad for Arrnea
[16:48:03] <Imperatoru> I also want to go back
[16:48:17] <Aryn_Krest> The whole issue was never over the original logs.
[16:48:23] <Imperatoru> I've screwed over Arrnea royally
[16:48:25] <Imperatoru> :<
[16:48:34] <Aryn_Krest> It was over Michaeru's betrayal, everyones knowledge thereof, and everyones lack of doing !@#$ about it.
[16:49:58] <Aryn_Krest> In metaphorical terms, I think you just dropped your dagger.
[16:51:01] <Aryn_Krest> I'm glad you finally see why I left...
[16:51:15] <Imperatoru> he's got me on ignore though, and I'm banned from the forums
[16:51:25] <Imperatoru> I need to apologise
[16:52:18] <Aryn_Krest> I agreed with Arrnea to begin with (getting back to your question). I let myself be swayed by Michaeru, you, Mio, Haruhi, Tohru, Dia... All because I didn't want to be in the bad light, I didn't want to be on the bad side of my friends. Nevermind that I knew the facts, knew their presentation... I let myself be blinded by separate loyalties.
[16:53:02] <Imperatoru> I find the "bad side of my friends" thing too
[16:53:03] <Imperatoru> :<
[16:53:13] <Imperatoru> I have friends in both camps damnit
[16:53:59] <Aryn_Krest> ... It might not change anything, but I can at least !@#$%* these logs to show how you've realized what you've done. Your choice.
[16:54:19] <Aryn_Krest> Rather, I shouldn't say 'you've.
[16:54:21] <Imperatoru> I've said some horrible things
[16:54:22] <Aryn_Krest> I should say 'we.'
[16:54:37] <Imperatoru> things that are really hurtful and hateful
[16:55:24] <Imperatoru> it must've been like twisting a knife in arrnea's already deep wounds T_T
[16:58:55] <Aryn_Krest> To be concise, it must've been like 13 knives twisting in his back, after already having many, many deep wounds.
[17:00:29] <Imperatoru> I too was blinded by SH et al
[17:00:40] <Imperatoru> more like horse blinkers
[17:00:59] <Imperatoru> :<
[17:00:59] <Aryn_Krest> ... horse blinkers?
[17:01:29] <Imperatoru> the things that you put on horses when they're pulling a carriage on the road so they can only see straight ahead
[17:01:38] <Aryn_Krest> Ah.
[17:01:48] <Imperatoru> they probably have a special name, knowing english
[17:01:58] <Aryn_Krest> So is Mio's call for apologization applicable here?
[17:02:28] <Imperatoru> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winker_%28horses%29
[17:02:41] <Imperatoru> Mio's call for apologisation?
[17:02:43] <Imperatoru> eh?
[17:03:18] <Imperatoru> if you mean do I want to apologise to arrnea, then yes
[17:03:24] <Aryn_Krest> She's stated many, many times that all Arrnea needed to do was apologize for removing members in a hussle, basically to apologize for doing something he 'shouldn't have done.'
[17:03:32] <Imperatoru> no
[17:03:45] <Imperatoru> arrnea shouldn't apologise for everything
[17:04:01] <Imperatoru> perhaps promise to communicate more in the future, but that's it
[17:05:09] <Imperatoru> Mio is being unreasonable
[17:05:33] <Imperatoru> which is not really surprising as she's gravitated more into the Elrich camp
[17:05:57] <Aryn_Krest> So now I have to ask you; are you just going to let these realizations sit with you and me?
[17:06:26] <Imperatoru> I don't know
[17:06:44] <Imperatoru> what can we do?
[17:07:15] <Aryn_Krest> Admittance is usually the first step to accomplishing a better tomorrow.
[17:07:23] <Aryn_Krest> Doesn't mean it'll be instantly better, though.
[17:07:44] <Aryn_Krest> And if everyone comes to the same realizations you did, theres probably one major thing you'll need to do.
[17:07:53] <Aryn_Krest> Care to take a gander?
[17:08:19] <Imperatoru> apologise?
[17:08:25] <Imperatoru> or something else?
[17:08:35] <Aryn_Krest> Well, admittance of realization usually necessitates an apology.
[17:08:43] <Aryn_Krest> I was thinking something to do with a certain traitor.
[17:08:52] <Imperatoru> because I sorely need to apologise to arrnea
[17:09:12] <Imperatoru> ZI michaeru?
[17:09:21] <Aryn_Krest> What you do to said traitor is entirely up to you... But it'll only continue to hinder you if you keep him where he is.
[17:09:40] <Aryn_Krest> Remember; he holds his blade straight to his chest. Why wouldn't he use it again?
[17:10:16] <Imperatoru> I'm not sure I'm getting clearly what you mean
[17:10:55] <Aryn_Krest> At least remove him from Sakura, is the least you can do. You can't simply say 'Oh, we realized how $%&@ed up it was with what Michaeru did. Oh well!' Something needs to be done beyond admittance.
[17:11:11] <Imperatoru> hmm
[17:11:26] <Aryn_Krest> As I said, Admittance = first step.
[17:11:27] <Imperatoru> that would require people with power to expel him
[17:11:59] <Aryn_Krest> And they can't do that if they don't fully realize the story, and what they've done.
[17:12:00] <Imperatoru> also, could you kindly ask Arrnea to unignore me so I can apologise?
[17:12:13] <Aryn_Krest> ... I'll do it.
[17:12:27] <Imperatoru> so I have to help you try and show them what they've really done
[17:12:59] <Aryn_Krest> Do you really want them to go on ignorant of the fact that they were full-on cohorts in a treasonous betrayal?
[17:13:15] <Aryn_Krest> <Arrnea[SOS|Chief]> *!lulz@sosdancn.org removed from ignore list.
[17:13:22] <Imperatoru> not at all
[17:14:12] <Aryn_Krest> Then !@#$%* the logs, and spread them where you think they need spreading. I can certainly tell you there's at least one or two OWF threads that could use this clarification. Full logs would be most appreciated by a -lot- of people.[/quote]

Edited October 31, 2010 by Imperator Honorius

[Tromp]

[quote name='Darth Pollard' timestamp='1288509858' post='2497871']
In the time between you saying you wanted to work things out, and the treaty cancellation, I was publicly and privately insulted no fewer than 8 times by members of your alliance. Forgive me if this doesn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

White liquid in a glass has to be milk.
[/quote]
Oh cry me a river.

It was you who started with the insults, and frankly, the way you continued to treat SOS after that proves that you deserve every piece of criticism you got.

[quote name='Imperator Honorius' timestamp='1288519122' post='2497918']
There is something that I'd like to primarily share with SOS Brigadiers and NsO'ers but is relevant nonetheless to a revelation that has been revealed to me over the wrong I have done to Arrnea:
[/quote]
Right Impy, I guess we'll see you around once more then.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Tromp

[Elrich von Richt]

...and now, for the grand finale. I've refrained from posting here, but I feel I need to make everything clear and necessarily so given my limited time frame.

Here's a list, in full, of what I've done wrong:
[list]- Handled negotiations separately, but (then) forgot to post the results/inform Arrnea
- Allowed my arrogance to get the better of me, and let it control my actions post-removal.
- Didn't inform Arrnea of the fact that Michaeru was backstabbing himself, (hell, even worse, being too blind to see just how stupid I was acting.)
- Rubbing in every negative possible thing in Arrnea's face (which goes so much against my typical nature, it's not even funny.)[/list]

To put everything in a short tl;dr:

This is quite literally the worst chain of mistakes I have ever made in my CyberNations career, and not a single word I can spew out of my mouth can make clear just how pessimistic I feel about myself, and everything that I'd done on the road up to where we are now. My typical behavior is one of kindness. The fact that I let my rage blind me into being one of the most sadistic being incapable of any empathy, disgusts me.

To be frank, I'm even [i]disgusted[/i] by some of the actions, and reactions, of the people I've now surrounded myself with. One in particular more so.

None of these actions, undertaken by myself, and undertaken by anyone now labeled in 'my camp' post-removal, were really warranted.

The 'wheels of fate' should have stopped after my removal, or (had I handled it better), the resolution of the situation.

Regardless of whether or not the remaining individuals in the SOS Brigade are willing to accept it, the only thing I can do is [b]apologize[/b] (and learn from this).

It took being around the people I'm with now for a couple of weeks, and some words from an old-friend to wake me up.

Edited October 31, 2010 by Elrich von Richt

[Tromp]

Why continue here Haruhi? Wasn't it you who said you wanted to 'put it all to rest'? Apologized time and time again?

Really, literally everything you have done is contrary to the very thing you have said and promised people.
Excuse me for not taking anything you say seriously any more, especially apologies. What worth do those have with the realization that I've heard them multiple times, and have seen them being betrayed as many times as well?

Since those apologies clearly aren't meant for SOS, you'd do better not to reply to this thread. Maybe the world will believe you, but we certainly will not.

[USMC123]

Those logs are very interesting Imperator. Perhaps you all can make up after all.

[Arrnea]

[quote name='USMC123' timestamp='1288536691' post='2498013']Those logs are very interesting Imperator. Perhaps you all can make up after all.[/quote]
Vindication sure is sweet, eh?

After all, [b]it's not paranoia if you're right[/b].

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1288503638' post='2497837']
Except I have no "intent to smear" and I can back up every word of mine with factual proof. And the attack against Lavo was aimed [i]solely[/i] at Lavo. That said, Lavo informing us that Voodoo knew what was said in #sakura is a bit saddening and disturbing to me.

You have been calling me (and my friends, while I'm at it) a liar and an instigator, and in no way attempted to attack my argument other than saying it is wrong.
[/quote]

i have not backed up my claim of ya'll being liars? are you kidding me? i have used the very OP that Arrnea wrote to back up my claim in this thread. I have asked for this actual proof of yours and have yet to receive it. so don't say i am not backing up my claims when in fact it is you and yours not backing anything up. and an attack on Lavo is fine, he is a big boy and can handle himself. but it was lumped in with "long time member of IAA" which makes it appear to be an attack on all of IAA.

the irony of your last statement must be lost on you since the entire time, you have been calling NsO out on being coup attempters and in no way provided proof (even the op is not proof) nor done anything other than saying their argument of being "impeachers" is wrong.