Decree of the Sith

[Jrenster]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1281325653' post='2406314']
Saying Heft made a mistake sounds like you think he just accidentally happened to hit the send aid button while he wasn't paying attention. A member of your government actively and knowingly committed an act of war against Ragnarok. If your leaders are going to make decisions you don't support you [i]probably[/i] should get new ones. In the immortal words of Justin Sane, "If you don't control your own government, people want to kill you."
[/quote]

You look like you're grasping at straws here. You want to make us disband because one of our government members made a mistake?

Like I said. I would do the same thing RoK did, except I wouldn't bring my allies into it. It was a perfect excuse and set up for a curbstomp and you jumped in on it. Kudos.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281325618' post='2406312']
And for the record, we didn't hate RoK until now. Now we do. As well as all of SF. It was just Fark last time, [b]but our hate has grown.[/b]
[/quote]
I, of all people, shouldn't be the one who has to tell you this, but [b]let it flow through you.[/b]

[NoFish]

[quote name='Jesse End' timestamp='1281325909' post='2406326']
Former Karma now supporting the disbandment of alliances through war? Shocking.
[/quote]
NoFish? Wanting to disband someone? I don't think you know me very well, do you?

[quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1281325890' post='2406325']
How can it be an act of war if Rag never provided any evidence to NSO?

Something from someone isn't adding up here....
[/quote]
How about the part where the "evidence" was just the rogue's public wars page?

Edit:
[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281325947' post='2406329']
You look like you're grasping at straws here. You want to make us disband because one of our government members made a mistake?

Like I said. I would do the same thing RoK did, except I wouldn't bring my allies into it. It was a perfect excuse and set up for a curbstomp and you jumped in on it. Kudos.
[/quote]
Yeah, you know what. You're right. Government members commiting acts of war isn't [i]really[/i] an act of war. Just going along with that, declaring war on someone at all shouldn't really be considered an act of war. THat's just grasping at straws. We're not even really at war with you.

As for Rok bringing it's allies in... I can see from the NSO wiki that you're in gov't, what department? I [i]hope[/i] it's not War if you expect Rok to keep all of NSO from jumping into peacemode by themselves with minimal notice.

Edited August 9, 2010 by NoFish

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1281325890' post='2406323']
You're crying "BANDWAGON EBIL" repeatedly without any awareness for what that word means. Allow me to educate you: bandwagoning is entering a war when you are not at all necessary, for whatever reason. Justified CB and friendship between the coalition set against you put aside, the realization by NSO of its impending bending by RoK forced operations forward (I mean, just look at the time) which meant that troops were not fully prepared. In order to execute an efficient demolition of Sith forces and prevent a guerrilla war, outside assistance had to be summoned. I.E. they were necessary to keep you from peace mode. That necessity undermines accusations of "bandwagoning", especially when coupled with the fact that they were asked and legally obligated to provide that assistance.

Please continue posting. You make things easy.
[/quote]

So you're saying that it was perfectly necessary for an additional 650+ nations, and 17mil NS to be dropped on an alliance of 170 nations and 3mil. Don't get me wrong, but you really are pulling !@#$ out of your $@!.

[Corinan]

It's ok SuperFriends, I understand and accept what you must do.

[silentkiller]

[quote]Not that RoK and friends seem to need a CB to justify their actions, but this one is so thin I swear I could read through it. Hoo is worse than any former leader of NPO ever dreamed of being. So, in response to this !@#$%^&* CB, and in particular GODs demand that NSO disband, I now demand that RoK, GOD, TENE and any others involved in that side of the conflict disband. I expect it to be equally as effective as the demand made by GOD. Lol.[/quote]


Seems I somehow missed this. So how about that GOD?

[Jocko Homo]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281325618' post='2406312']And for the record, we didn't hate RoK until now. Now we do. As well as all of SF. It was just Fark last time, but our hate has grown.[/quote]

As someone who considers himself to be a friend of not just Fark but of the entirety of the SF, I take notice of your hate and write it in my little book.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281326344' post='2406343']
It's ok SuperFriends, I understand and accept what you must do.
[/quote]
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but if you really do understand then I truly appreciate it. War is war after all.

[Kubla Khan]

/me waits for update to see where the cards really fall

[NoFish]

[quote name='silentkiller' timestamp='1281326392' post='2406344']
Seems I somehow missed this. So how about that GOD?
[/quote]
Last I checked I was a minority opinion in GOD that we should force disbandment. But if Pacifica [i]really[/i] wants us to maybe that'll grant me some leverage, eh?

[Roadie]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1281326174' post='2406336']


How about the part where the "evidence" was just the rogue's public wars page?
[/quote]


It isn't evidence of any 'rogue' activity if those wars were a response to TENE spying on this supposed rogue. If they did, then TENE committed an act of war and this nation was simply defending itself.

I don't claim to know for certain the exact events, but I do know that from what I've read here there's two possible choices;

1: This is a CB that isn't, or
2: There's something else that I haven't read about yet or my understanding of the order of events is incorrect.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Roadie

[Corinan]

Personally I'd love it if GOD tried to make us disband. They don't have the balls for such a move, however.

[silentkiller]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1281326522' post='2406349']
Last I checked I was a minority opinion in GOD that we should force disbandment. But if Pacifica [i]really[/i] wants us to maybe that'll grant me some leverage, eh?
[/quote]

So GOD hasn't demanded disbandment. Thanks for wasting everyones time by posting a longer than needed reply I guess.

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='Whitney' timestamp='1281321856' post='2406105']
Hey Dochartaigh. Check this out.



Alright, enough of the broken record. Thanks for playing.
[/quote]

Hey Whitney- don't forget the part where Hoo gave the proof finally and then promptly declared war without any further negotiations. again you fail so enough with your broken record.

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1281321885' post='2406107']
He isnt looking for any, he is looking for talking points he can create in his mind to attempt to say something relevant to his personal dislikes. Sadly for him, this one is pretty cut and dry and has no ambaquity. We told them, before they did so that sending this person aid would be considered an act of war based on the rogue action against TENE.

They chose to do it anyway, and no amount of shouting from doch can change the facts.
[/quote]

it is so nice i have an adoring fan in you Thorgrum. i am not looking for anything. i hate both sides and have actually pointed out where both went wrong, not just one. but then again, you are so much of a fan of mine, you have ignored this tiny tidbit and chosen instead to simply state the first thing that pops into your mind.

i already stated that NSO was quite stupid for sending aid, but does 6 million really require a war? to most reasonable alliances no. in fact, the threat of war would most likely not have been used because most alliances would have given proof up front and used negotiations instead of simply stating "RoK will attack your member and you will have to like it."

so, i am not trying to state that NSO is not to blame and have also stated that had this war simply been RoK/TENE vs NSO, i would not have said anything.

so no amount of spin from you will change what i have actually said. it never has, nor will it ever.

[quote name='Whitney' timestamp='1281323155' post='2406197']
Well, I'm under the impression that when someone says, "Don't aid him. He's a rogue. Here's proof." and then you send him aid... you just shot yourself in the foot there.

I don't know. It just seems obvious... competent, even, to end this without too much of a hassle.
[/quote]

again, you are missing several steps. it went:

RoK- your member is a rogue
NSO- proof plz
RoK- we will give it to you later
RoK- we are attacking your member nao. no aid or war
NSO- what about the proof? also :aid:
RoK- here is proof :DoW:

[quote name='Gamemaster1' timestamp='1281323358' post='2406212']
Silly me, I thought stabbing people in the back during negotiations was always wrong. Or maybe it was only wrong for NPO to do it to OV.
[/quote]

nope, this is clearly different than what NPO did during their negotiations with OV and therefore what NPO did is much much worse..... /sarcasm

[Ardus]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281326211' post='2406339']
So you're saying that it was perfectly necessary for an additional 650+ nations, and 17mil NS to be dropped on an alliance of 170 nations and 3mil. Don't get me wrong, but you really are pulling !@#$ out of your $@!.
[/quote]
Except that's not what fell on you this evening. That may be what they have in reserves, but it wasn't what they had at the exact moment.

You've fought wars. You know what I'm saying is true. You're being deliberately dense.

[HeroofTime55]

GOD, demanding that NSO disband? It's the sort of class I've come to expect from them.

[Corinan]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1281327376' post='2406387']
GOD, demanding that NSO disband? It's the sort of class I've come to expect from them.
[/quote]

That's the current backchannel rumor, yeah.

[Felix von Agnu]

[quote name='Corinan' timestamp='1281327669' post='2406405']
That's the current backchannel rumor, yeah.
[/quote]
Haven't you learned anything about Xiph and rumors? He is obviously trying to get you to go into peace mo...oh wait.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1281326990' post='2406370']
Except that's not what fell on you this evening. That may be what they have in reserves, but it wasn't what they had at the exact moment.

You've fought wars. You know what I'm saying is true. You're being deliberately dense.
[/quote]

Not really. The reason I'm not understanding this is because of the following:

A. You're making poor arguments about logistics, but you're not even clarifying anything. You're literally just pointing at stuff in the air and hope that it connects. "Sith demolition"? "Guerilla warfare"?

B. We wouldn't be doing the same thing. Take our history of 1v1 wars. In fact, I believe MK even has a section in their wikia about following our example of short 1v1 quick round wars.

C. I don't understand why you're being so offended by this. Bandwagoning isn't evil. It's just for people with weak will. Being evil is having personal malicious intent with the will to carry out such intent. Most people have weak wills anyways, so it's not like it's anything new.

They have [i]plenty[/i] of reserves is what I'm saying. If they wanted to cycle through their nations, RoK could've easily done that by themselves. And that speculation in itself would show that SF plans on keeping us in war for a long period of time.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Jrenster

[Corinan]

[quote name='Felix von Agnu' timestamp='1281327742' post='2406407']
Haven't you learned anything about Xiph and rumors? He is obviously trying to get you to go into peace mo...oh wait.
[/quote]

Yeah that guy's always making up crazy, fantastical stories. Guess I shouldn't believe everything I hear, huh?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Corinan

[Edifice]

May you live in interesting times... the curse of the Sith.

I'm interested in seeing how this war is resolved--as the first curbstomp we've seen in a while, it will probably play it's part in setting the tone of political discourse(lol) in the future.

Has there been any information on what the RoK side is demanding from NSO yet? Haven't trudged through these pages...

Edited August 9, 2010 by Edifice

[Xiphosis]

While the idea of disbanding NSO certainly appeals to me, I've been too busy seeing to the conducting of the war to think much about terms whatsoever. If you're hearing rumors, they're simply that.

[Corinan]

Yeah see I thought so.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1281326174' post='2406336']
NoFish? Wanting to disband someone? I don't think you know me very well, do you?
[/quote]
[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1281326522' post='2406349']
Last I checked I was a minority opinion in GOD that we should force disbandment. But if Pacifica [i]really[/i] wants us to maybe that'll grant me some leverage, eh?
[/quote]

Do you even know yourself?

[Ardus]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281327880' post='2406416']
Not really. The reason I'm not understanding this is because of the following:

A. You're making poor arguments about logistics, but you're not even clarifying anything. You're literally just pointing at stuff in the air and hope that it connects. "Sith demolition"? "Guerilla warfare"?[/quote]

Logistics is the art of getting things from where they are and where they need to be. NSO was fleeing to peace mode. If a large number of people escape to peace mode it becomes difficult to prosecute a war in a satisfactory manner. It can also allow for a form of guerrilla war, as evidenced by FAN's long struggle and use of peace mode. RoK couldn't get everything from point A (not online) to point B (online and prepped for war) by itself on the truncated schedule and prevent mass peace-moding, so it called for help from outside contractors.

[quote]B. We wouldn't be doing the same thing. Take our history of 1v1 wars. In fact, I believe MK even has a section in their wikia about following our example of short 1v1 quick round wars.[/quote]

Yeah, I just plain don't believe you. Everybody says this when in your position. Hell, I practically invented the argument. Let's cut the crap and be honest: you don't take chances with war. You follow the Powell Doctrine and strike with all the resources available to you.

[quote]C. I don't understand why you're being so offended by this. Bandwagoning isn't evil. It's just for people with weak will. Being evil is having personal malicious intent with the will to carry out such intent. Most people have weak wills anyways, so it's not like it's anything new.[/quote]

I'm not offended by the accusation itself, but rather as an example of your willful ignorance coupled with your persistent and laughable charade of superiority. Not at all like my well-toned charade of superiority.

[quote]They have [i]plenty[/i] of reserves is what I'm saying. If they wanted to cycle through their nations, RoK could've easily done that by themselves. And that speculation in itself would show that SF plans on keeping us in war for a long period of time.[/quote]

I'm not about to try and hypothesize how Hoo wants this thing to be carried out. I haven't chatted with the man in forever.