Protection

[Jakome]

well thats that I guess

Edited July 26, 2010 by Jakome

[Emporor]

[quote name='Gravitate Rogue' timestamp='1280118037' post='2389290']
Holy crap stop your posturing. If you know it wont happen then shut up. This thread is not about you asking them to attack you.
[/quote]

No, no it isn't.. but the fact that the thread is here, and it appears that they want to shove other alliances around gives me and every other leader in CN the right to call them out and you better believe I will.. but since a member of LOLValhalla wants to get involved, I'm just supposed to stop? Lol. Get real. How about you sit down, shut up, and take notes. kthxbye.

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Emporor' timestamp='1280114224' post='2389217']
That's because the cowards won't raid an alliance that would fight back.
[/quote]
An alliance-wide retaliation would not be the the result a raider is looking for. Quite the opposite actually. Therefore, looking for a target that would not fight back (at least in that extreme fashion) wouldn't make them cowards necessarily. It would make them smart raiders.

[Emporor]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1280129155' post='2389488']
An alliance-wide retaliation would not be the the result a raider is looking for. Quite the opposite actually. Therefore, looking for a target that would not fight back (at least in that extreme fashion) wouldn't make them cowards necessarily. It would make them smart raiders.
[/quote]

Wow, you are probably the best argument yet... but, being smart in this case.. makes them cowards. But, I agree with you, to a certain extent. They are ignorant however to go around picking fights with alliances such as MA, who could roll them.. so lets not give them to much credit.

[CptGodzilla]

[quote name='Emporor' timestamp='1280129879' post='2389507']
Wow, you are probably the best argument yet... but, being smart in this case.. makes them cowards. But, I agree with you, to a certain extent. They are ignorant however to go around picking fights with alliances such as MA, who could roll them.. so lets not give them to much credit.
[/quote]

They weren't picking on MA as there was no concrete way to tell if there was protection there or not.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Emporor' timestamp='1280114224' post='2389217']
That's because the cowards won't raid an alliance that would fight back.. I'm still waiting to see GOONS stand up to my challenge. I know it won't happen because they aren't completely ignorant, just mostly.
[/quote]

Who are you again?

[Tulafaras]

[quote name='Emporor' timestamp='1280129879' post='2389507']
Wow, you are probably the best argument yet... but, being smart in this case.. makes them cowards. But, I agree with you, to a certain extent. They are ignorant however to go around picking fights with alliances such as MA, who could roll them.. so lets not give them to much credit.
[/quote]
seriously, could the peanut gallery stop trying to pick a fight between GOONS and MA over an issue which was handled?

Trust me, if GOONS wanted to pick a fight with SF they would manage quite easily (and probably be blown into smitherens afterwards).

Zilla made this thread to deal with any future problems regaring SoL not to start drama about the past....

Ps: Beefspari, you should maybe consider in future discussions who you are actually talking to. I've never known zilla to lie and SoL's ties to MA were widely known, so graciously saying: "our mistake we'll stop immediatly" would have been a better response.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280113854' post='2389209']
Oh! Well in [i]that case[/i] it's totally [i]finnnnnnnne[/i] that they raided a protected AA.
[/quote]

It's totally [i]finnnnnnnne[/i] because MA, the party that's actually involved here, says it is. It's you and others opportunistically taking pot shots that are all hot and bothered.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280113854' post='2389209']
Tomorrow they can go ahead and raid Polar but send peace right after 2 GAs and it'll be cool.
[/quote]

SoL is an AA with, prior to this thread, no mention of protection anywhere. NpO, on the other hand, has established, well known connections. The two situations couldn't be any more different.


Anywho, I'm rather tickled by talk of GOONS being crushed, mainly because I can think of several alliances off the top of my head that would certainly have something to say about it.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Tulafaras' timestamp='1280139223' post='2389568']
seriously, could the peanut gallery stop trying to pick a fight between GOONS and MA over an issue which was handled?
[/quote]
The leader of the "peanut gallery" in this case appears to be Hoo, who's not entirely without connection to MA.

[Facade]

[quote name='Tulafaras' timestamp='1280139223' post='2389568']
seriously, could the peanut gallery stop trying to pick a fight between GOONS and MA over an issue which was handled?
[/quote]

Alright then, let's pick a fight between GOONS and the other countless protected alliances they've raided.

[nippy]

[quote name='Emporor' timestamp='1280129879' post='2389507']
Wow, you are probably the best argument yet... but, being smart in this case.. makes them cowards. But, I agree with you, to a certain extent. They are ignorant however to go around picking fights with alliances such as MA, who could roll them.. so lets not give them to much credit.
[/quote]

You're beyond pathetic. If you [i]really[/i] think GOONS are going to declare on your tiny alliance just because you like to talk smack, you're sorely mistaken. If you're [i]that[/i] excitable of an individual, where you think you can puff out your little chest and strut around like some kind of beefcake Napoleon type, perhaps you should consider a few lessons in self-restraint. You're as dangerous to me as a dog is to a car.

[Grumpdogg]

GOONS wish to play by the Law of the Jungle. Well, these little monkeys made friends with some bigger monkeys. Either step up and take on the whole troop, or slink off into the undergrowth where you belong.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1280133587' post='2389532']
Who are you again?
[/quote]
Haha, a MKer employing the Moldavi Deflection.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1280148637' post='2389627']
It's totally [i]finnnnnnnne[/i] because MA, the party that's actually involved here, says it is. It's you and others opportunistically taking pot shots that are all hot and bothered.

Anywho, I'm rather tickled by talk of GOONS being crushed, mainly because I can think of several alliances off the top of my head that would certainly have something to say about it.
[/quote]
It's fine now because somebody with more rank and sense than Beefspari rescinded her official, gov position of "Uhhh, no, we're not stoping these raids because there's nothing we consider proof." You won't find me using the "crushed" rhetoric but I would hope that in a hypothetical repeat of this situation MK's "somethign to say about it" would be just that: Diplomacy. Escalation of a war begun by GOONS raiding a protected target and refusing to peace out via otional aggression because somebody $%&@ed up is pretty weak.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1280153112' post='2389664']
You're as dangerous to me as a dog is to a car.
[/quote]
[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/cndump/dog.jpg[/IMG]

Edited July 26, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Tulafaras]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1280149473' post='2389636']
The leader of the "peanut gallery" in this case appears to be Hoo, who's not entirely without connection to MA.
[/quote]
Hoo's point was basically "if someone approaches you nicely on IRC maybe next time react appropriatly". A criticism GOONS will have to accept, since that isn't quite how they have behaved here. But he doesn't disagree that the situation itself has been handled.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280159179' post='2389726']


[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/cndump/dog.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]
Just for clarity since we're all glaring at each other lately, this is more to give everyone a light-hearted chuckle, not really to piss you off, Nippy. Also I want everyone to recognize my mad Paint skills.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Poyplemonkeys]

Not a raid I would have personally undertaken having done the research, then again I do not like paying reparations so I'm pretty conservative. I'd always consider the Wiki a less accurate source of information than the forums due to the fact anyone can edit it, and not everyone is as hot on keeping theirs up to date. Scanning the Nemesis wiki entry quickly there is at least two errors that I simply don't care enough to correct. The fact they were a previously well connected alliance with no merger notice and no treaty cancellations on the forums would be the thing that set a bell ringing in my head.

If I were to make a recommendation for future situations it would be for GOONS to suggest members put less weight on wikipedia evidence.

Seems the situation all turned out rosy though, so rawr away at each other all you want. You're getting nowhere.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280159179' post='2389726']
It's fine now because somebody with more rank and sense than Beefspari rescinded her official, gov position of "Uhhh, no, we're not stoping these raids because there's nothing we consider proof." You won't find me using the "crushed" rhetoric but I would hope that in a hypothetical repeat of this situation MK's "somethign to say about it" would be just that: Diplomacy. Escalation of a war begun by GOONS raiding a protected target and refusing to peace out via otional aggression because somebody $%&@ed up is pretty weak.
[/quote]

So we're in agreement that things are fine, and as MA has indicated the situation was resolved amicably (to pick up where we left off on a previous line of thinking). All's well then.

(Nice pic by the way. MSPaint is the best for doing graphical work. )

Edited July 26, 2010 by SirWilliam

[Aurion]

...Can't let [i]this[/i] set of gems go, lol.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1280091558' post='2388671']
You're out of line, Hoo. We don't go about dictating your alliance's policies to you, so don't do the same to us. We're not obligated to end raids on unprotected AA's, so don't act like we were. [/quote]

No, he's not out of line at all actually. SoL [i]was[/i] and [i]is[/i] protected. And Zilla told you so.

[quote]
If you have issues with our policies, feel free to discuss them with us. You calling us 'complete morons' on the OWF not only makes us not care about your opinion, but it ensures that your posts will be regarded with less seriousness in the future.
[/quote]

Hoo is quite right here- this was moronic. Much more so than the crap with CoJ, because at least there you had some semblance of a leg to stand on.

Here? None.


[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1280091844' post='2388676']
Had he been nicer I may have just gone ahead with having our people peace out just because a couple raids isn't really worth the trouble.
[/quote]

Okay, I have to focus in on this. Zilla was about as nice to you as it's possible to be.

[quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1280093226' post='2388708']
And our raiders made sure there was no protection, and nobody could show that they were wrong.
[/quote]



If the leader of an alliance tells you that an AA is protected, you may just want to consider that valid. Just maybe. It'll help avoid all sorts of future complications, trust me.

No, really. It will. Especially when said alliance held a bleeding MADP with the aforementioned AA. Just $%&@in' ask. It isn't hard.

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1280093837' post='2388727']
Sorry if you don't like that but in the end it doesn't matter what _you_ like as no one really cares.
[/quote]

Hoo's opinion matters a $%&@ of a lot more than yours, if you want a pissing contest.


[quote name='King Puffington' timestamp='1280094310' post='2388739']
If they wanted GOONS to stop, then yes they do/did.
[/quote]

I'm guessing the issues people are having here have a lot more to do with how GOONS went about it.

Just a guess, though!

Edited July 27, 2010 by Aurion

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1280097581' post='2388800']
If that's the case, what in gods name is the issue? Or is it just people freaking out again whenever GOONS name is mentioned in public :x
[/quote]

[quote name='Gofastleft' timestamp='1280097659' post='2388802']
Ding Ding Ding, and we have a winner.
[/quote]

I think it's more that a lot of people are just tired of the same thing over and over again.

When CMEA reformed we made the protection announcement I told to DemonSpawn:
"Well now let's count the time until the first GOONS raider shows up"

16 hours later i told him:
"Called it"

After talking to them about peacing out and showing them the announcement in which was stated we where protecting them I pretty much got told it was my fault for not updating their Wiki to reflect that.

When LOUD merged into us I got told (after i had to spend half an hour searching on the OWF to find the topic again just to convince them) the announcement of our indefinite protection of their AA wasn't announced very treaty like.

I can't speak for others but if more people had similar situations my guess is that's where their frustration comes from. MA's situation topped ours because goons first told them they wouldn't be peacing out before the wars expired.

I must say I agree with Hoo here completely. It's not up to protecting alliances to jump through hoops to prove they are protecting them. If you want to raid you make sure the targets aren't protected and if you attack them and get told by someone they are protecting those nations you got your announcement right there.

Hoo stated if it was RoK instead of MA Goons would have had their defensive slots full. And as ally of RoK we would definitely have backed them on that.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280159179' post='2389726']Haha, a MKer employing the Moldavi Deflection.[/quote]
I wasn't aware Ivan held naming rights on asking people who they are?

(sweet pic though)

Edited July 27, 2010 by Voytek

[Kryievla]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1280087382' post='2388569']
Except that it is not up to you ... or GOONS. That is between the merged alliance and the alliance that they merged into. This isn't something you can e-lawyer.



Well now, how big of you.

No, there is no reason for a "compromise". You were politely approached and advised that you were attacking a protected AA. The response should have been an offer to peace out and not "Oh, ok ... we're going to finish our wars though." That is absolutely ridiculous.


[/quote]

While I agree that an offer of peace is the appropriate response, I have a question about the initial attack. Pardon me if I missed it somewhere, but was there an announcement about this merge and any amount of protection?

I ask because it seems to me that if there was no announcement explicitly regarding protection of the old AA, then I don't see any issue (beyond discourtesy) in attacking said AA. If there [b]was[/b] an announcement regarding protection, then I agree with you in entirety.

[Bob Ilyani]

Huuuuuge gravedig.

[ChairmanHal]

I feel the need for a shovel.

Well, it tis the season for the dead to come back to life.

[Allan a Dale]

Closed.