I think I owe someone an apology

[magicninja]

[quote name='chefjoe' date='08 July 2010 - 12:27 PM' timestamp='1278613653' post='2363614']
Really all I have to say about all of you whom have 'qouted' my statement to refute it, is you are making it seem more plausable that im right.

you all appear to be a little touchy about that subject for some reason, hell even Cata replied and he isnt even PART of GATO.

Falls under the heading of 'Thou dost protest to much methinks'

/me shrugs
[/quote]

Oh c'mon CJ. You !@#$@#$ know me man. I made a mistake, so I apologized. We haven't talked to Polaris in months and as far as I know they aren't in our big picture at all. You really need to find something to do man if all you have do is wonder about my motives. Go watch some Trailer Park Boys.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='chefjoe' date='08 July 2010 - 07:27 PM' timestamp='1278613653' post='2363614']
Really all I have to say about all of you whom have 'qouted' my statement to refute it, is you are making it seem more plausable that im right.

you all appear to be a little touchy about that subject for some reason, hell even Cata replied and he isnt even PART of GATO.

Falls under the heading of 'Thou dost protest to much methinks'

/me shrugs
[/quote]
Oh CJ is that extreme paranoia your exhibiting or what , i just commented because i GATO a hell of a lot.

[Esau of Isaac]

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='08 July 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1278617363' post='2363697']
Oh CJ is that extreme paranoia your exhibiting or what , i just commented because i GATO a hell of a lot.
[/quote]
We all you back, man.

[Penguin]

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='08 July 2010 - 05:29 AM' timestamp='1278592135' post='2363356']
You guessed wrong as others have pointed out, if this was a PR stunt the OP would have been posted by a senior member of GATO's govt and would probably be sporting a GATO banner
[/quote]
I accept this [i]official[/i] apology on behalf of [i]the NAAC[/i], an alliance I was at one point a [i]part[/i] of and might even have [i]led[/i], over these events that happened well [i]after[/i] my nation was founded. My [i]strong[/i] feelings on these events and the parties involved have been significantly mitigated.

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]This whole entire thread brightened my day. I laughed, and I will admit it.

As much fun as it is for the disillusioned to distort history to support their victim hypothesis, at least all of the events should be included.

It should be duly noted that I am no longer a Polaris member, so I cannot say that in any way, shape, or form that I represent the alliance itself.

Yes, for all intents and purposes TOP/IRON and company were betrayed, but it did not happen immediatly after the myopic attack on CnG. \m/ surrendered to NpO via an open ended peace offer that was left out for the duration of the war the same night CnG was attacked. A few days later (when enough NpO nations could get out of anarchy), Polar declared war on GOD in support of NSO. VE and a few other alliances dog-piled Polar in something that was akin to a drunken bar fight. A couple of more days pass, and NpO declares on TOP and commences a dramatic update blitz of somewhere in the area of 2, maybe 3 nations.

For those in TOP that think that all of Polaris betrayed them, you are lying to yourselves. There was no plan, or grand scheme. All the research I have done shows absolutly no indicator that any of the government knew about the TOP DoW prior to it being posted on the OWF. People need to understand that NpO is NOT A DEMOCRACY, and the Emperor holds what amounts to absolute power, minus whatever he is willing to delegate to the Imperial Staff. As Emperor, Grub was the one that called all of the shots and could do whatever he damn well pleased at any particular moment in time.

For those in CnG and Co that seem to think that Polar was on their side the whole time, you are sadly mistaken. As alliances, Polar contains it's own unique culture that at many times clashes with that of your own. From the outset of the Bi-Polar War, our alliances were idealogically opposed, and anticipated and planned for the prospects of being militarily opposed. The main reason that Polar fraternized with TOP was that there was a certain set of values that was perceived to be shared by both, as well as friendly and productive commincation. The same thing cannot be said about CnG for the duration of the war. [/color]

Edited July 10, 2010 by DictatatorDan

[BarbulaM1]

Why are people so harsh?

This is a personal apology, not an alliance to alliance. Interesting approach, IRC apology would've been a bit more in vogue. But either way an apology is an apology, odd to see people so caught up about one.

Magic, a noble deed. Odd way to carry it out, but nonetheless noble.

[Moridin]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' date='09 July 2010 - 08:43 PM' timestamp='1278733398' post='2365500'][color="#000000"]All the research I have done shows absolutly no indicator that any of the government knew about the TOP DoW prior to it being posted on the OWF.[/color][/quote]

This is entirely false, and you should know better since you've asked me about it.

edit: That is, if you're referring to the TOP DoW on C&G. If you're talking about the NpO DoW on TOP, then I haven't personally discussed it with you but it's still false.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Moridin

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' date='09 July 2010 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1278733398' post='2365500']
For those in TOP that think that all of Polaris betrayed them, you are lying to yourselves. All the research I have done shows absolutly no indicator that any of the government knew about the TOP DoW prior to it being posted on the OWF.
[/quote]
I'm not even going to respond to anything except this particular statement.

lol




Yep, that does it.

[magicninja]

[quote name='BarbulaM1' date='09 July 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1278736067' post='2365552']
Why are people so harsh?

This is a personal apology, not an alliance to alliance. Interesting approach, IRC apology would've been a bit more in vogue. But either way an apology is an apology, odd to see people so caught up about one.

Magic, a noble deed. Odd way to carry it out, but nonetheless noble.
[/quote]

Thinly disguised attempt to bring the Polaris betrayed IRON/TOP topic to light.

[magicninja]

[quote name='BarbulaM1' date='09 July 2010 - 10:28 PM' timestamp='1278736067' post='2365552']
Why are people so harsh?

This is a personal apology, not an alliance to alliance. Interesting approach, IRC apology would've been a bit more in vogue. But either way an apology is an apology, odd to see people so caught up about one.

Magic, a noble deed. Odd way to carry it out, but nonetheless noble.
[/quote]

Thinly disguised attempt to bring the Polaris betrayed IRON/TOP topic to light.

[DictatatorDan]

[color="#FF0000"]I was refering to the NpO DoW on TOP, not the TOP DoW on CnG. Late night posting for the loss.[/color]

[SoADarthCyfe6]

The actions taken and performed by magicninja were indeed a courageous and noble act to do. It is not easy to apologize to someone for something you had strongly believe for quite some time. It is also difficult in general, to apologize to anyone for actions you so strongly believed in. I commend magicninja in his actions, this makes anyone a better man for merely apologizing, even if it was something so long ago. Kudos to you magic.

I also find it despicable that people are trying to analyze, start old fires and make fun of GATO just because there is a thread for GATO made. Shame on you, you can try to reignite old fires, but the burnt wood doesn't burn all that after you light it, get some new wood and stop using the old one. What's done is done, just stop already.

Also, magic, your mouse is really !@#$%*, you keep double posting like crazy lol.

Edited July 10, 2010 by SoADarthCyfe6

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' date='09 July 2010 - 11:43 PM' timestamp='1278733398' post='2365500']
[color="#FF0000"]For those in TOP that think that all of Polaris betrayed them, you are lying to yourselves. There was no plan, or grand scheme. All the research I have done shows absolutly no indicator that any of the government knew about the TOP DoW prior to it being posted on the OWF. People need to understand that NpO is NOT A DEMOCRACY, and the Emperor holds what amounts to absolute power, minus whatever he is willing to delegate to the Imperial Staff. As Emperor, Grub was the one that called all of the shots and could do whatever he damn well pleased at any particular moment in time.[/color]
[/quote]

"We didn't betray you, our Emperor who has absolute power and speaks for the alliance did".

[Moridin]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='10 July 2010 - 09:42 AM' timestamp='1278780155' post='2365884']
"We didn't betray you, our Emperor who has absolute power and speaks for the alliance did".
[/quote]

It is an important distinction, or at least would be an important distinction if DictatatorDan's assertion that Polar gov was unaware of the plan to declare war on TOP were true. While it wouldn't by any means absolve the alliance of wrongdoing (if you do in fact believe that decision was wrong), it would mean that the current government was not necessarily on board with the idea. Where this distinction does become important is in Polar's exit from the war shortly after TOP/Duckroll's declaration on C&G, where no one in Polar government aside from AlmightyGrub had any idea peace had been agreed to until after it was posted.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Moridin

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Moridin' date='10 July 2010 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1278804964' post='2366352']
It is an important distinction, or at least would be an important distinction if DictatatorDan's assertion that Polar gov was unaware of the plan to declare war on TOP were true. While it wouldn't by any means absolve the alliance of wrongdoing (if you do in fact believe that decision was wrong), it would mean that the current government was not necessarily on board with the idea. Where this distinction does become important is in Polar's exit from the war shortly after TOP/Duckroll's declaration on C&G, where no one in Polar government aside from AlmightyGrub had any idea peace had been agreed to until after it was posted.
[/quote]

Perhaps I've just missed it, but I can't say I recall seeing any kind of official stance one way or the other from Penguin. If the distinction was important I'd say it was imperative that some effort be made to distance themselves from whatever actions they disagreed with.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Moridin' date='10 July 2010 - 07:36 PM' timestamp='1278804964' post='2366352']
[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='10 July 2010 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1278780155' post='2365884']
"We didn't betray you, our Emperor who has absolute power and speaks for the alliance did".
[/quote]
It is an important distinction
[/quote]
No, it's not. When you're dealing with the Orders, the Emperor is the alliance. They are the same. When the Emperor speaks, the alliance speaks.

This has good and bad sides to it. The good side is that no matter what, the Emperor's word goes. The bad side is that ... well you can probably see where I'm going

[Cortath]

There's a bad side?

[Bob Janova]

The bad side is that if the Emperor makes a bad decision then there's no-one to stop him enacting it, as Polar and Grub discovered. (You could add Pacific and Moo to that but I think that was a corporate mistake, as he didn't keep the Karma plans from, well, anyone.) TOP had to somewhat circumvent their own policy by having Heptagon issue a 'yeah you can do what you like' order to milcom/senior government otherwise they couldn't have made the mistake they did. Total authority isn't a great thing if the person who has it makes a mistake.

[Fallen Fool]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='10 July 2010 - 12:42 PM' timestamp='1278780155' post='2365884']"We didn't betray you, our Emperor who has absolute power and speaks for the alliance did". [/quote]The office of the Emperor is an institution central to the existence of Polar. You follow its holder through hell, despite whatever reservations you may have, because if you do not then there is a good chance that internal cohesion of the alliance will breakdown irrevocably and if that happens the community will die.

Does that make Polars who like our community responsible for the actions of our Emperor in the last war? Maybe, but it doesn't make us raging monsters or mindless sheeple.

[Jens of the desert]

Noone should ever have to apologise to Grub, it makes you seem lower than him, and that is just what he would want.

[Donnerjack]

[b]This thread is not about Polaris nor the last war. If you would like to have a discussion on that topic you may open a new thread.[/b]

[Corinan]

Honorable that you'd apologize for past actions that you weren't even involved with, but it seems unnecessary to me. If anything, Grub should apologize to GATO for telling you all to go $%&@ yourselves.

Just wanna say it one more time, Grub royally screwed NSO. That is all.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Corinan' date='15 July 2010 - 09:30 PM' timestamp='1279243838' post='2373878']
Honorable that you'd apologize for past actions that you weren't even involved with, but it seems unnecessary to me. If anything, Grub should apologize to GATO for telling you all to go $%&@ yourselves.

Just wanna say it one more time, Grub royally screwed NSO. That is all.
[/quote]

You would have been fine if you had just agreed to do the review the first time. You royally screwed yourselves.

[AlmightyGrub]

[quote name='Corinan' date='16 July 2010 - 11:30 AM' timestamp='1279243838' post='2373878']
Honorable that you'd apologize for past actions that you weren't even involved with, but it seems unnecessary to me. If anything, Grub should apologize to GATO for telling you all to go $%&@ yourselves.

Just wanna say it one more time, Grub royally screwed NSO. That is all.
[/quote]

With the greatest respect, your failure to take any responsibility for your own arrogance and subsequent displays publicly and privately screwed you a lot harder than I ever did.

I am entirely comfortable to never ever be allied to NSO, entirely comfortable with my assessments of your character and any mistakes I made pale in comparison to the ones you made. But please do continue ranting.

As for apologizing to GATO, I owe them nothing, I care little and I did not request this apology.

Hey NSO, go #$%^yourselves.

[Wad of Lint]

[quote name='AlmightyGrub' date='15 July 2010 - 09:57 PM' timestamp='1279245420' post='2373912']
With the greatest respect,
[/quote]

This is where I stopped reading. I am glad to have your utmost and entirely meaningful respect. I strive every day of my life to impress you and ensure you are satisfied with my alliance. Please continue to offer me your praise and constructive opinions.