DOE - New Christian Order

[Seth Muscarella]

Nice, this thread couldn't be complete without a load of out of context Bible verses as some sort of clever banter.

Good luck to the NCO for wanting an alliance with a community brought together by similarities outside of Bob.

[D34th]

I'm a bit late, but congrats and good luck my old friend. If you need something just message me

[Ian Miller]

Sincere best wishes with you endeavors, NCO.

[FAdmApoc]

I like the smell of fail in the morning.

You left the New Polar Order to join Christian Coalition of Countries, now you leave them to create the New Christian Order. Like seriously, serious lack of imagination and creativity. I wonder if anything else was copied from NpO/CCC to fill in the gaps.

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='FAdmApoc' date='24 May 2010 - 03:33 AM' timestamp='1274690004' post='2310055']
I like the smell of fail in the morning.

You left the New Polar Order to join Christian Coalition of Countries, now you leave them to create the New Christian Order. Like seriously, serious lack of imagination and creativity. I wonder if anything else was copied from NpO/CCC to fill in the gaps.
[/quote]

Poor form, buddy.

[Ordinator]

The trolling in this thread needs to stop now.

[zoskia]

[quote name='FAdmApoc' date='24 May 2010 - 05:33 AM' timestamp='1274690004' post='2310055']
I like the smell of fail in the morning.

You left the New Polar Order to join Christian Coalition of Countries, now you leave them to create the New Christian Order. Like seriously, serious lack of imagination and creativity. I wonder if anything else was copied from NpO/CCC to fill in the gaps.
[/quote]

Maybe he liked both and also wanted to be the founder and leader of a new alliance. That's fine.

I find it funny that Keystroke's new Alliance became somehow controversial... specially when the Alliance has done nothing yet except existing.

(And the Orders are all very different... so it's interesting that there's even one more of them).

[saxasm]

CCC v. NCO? What do you say, Keys?

Also, everything interesting happens when I have no internet.

[Uralica]

[quote name='saxasm' date='24 May 2010 - 03:42 AM' timestamp='1274697747' post='2310090']
CCC v. NCO? What do you say, Keys?
[/quote]

[img]http://pw0nd.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/headdesk-500x400.jpg[/img]

Sax, that's a horrible idea.

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='23 May 2010 - 06:38 AM' timestamp='1274611086' post='2308972']
We already have one explicitly religious alliance (I think Jamariya disbanded right?), we don't need more .
[/quote]
As an explicitly religious affiliation, Cult of Justitia has no problem with one more. But I see closed-mindedness comes from more than one world outlook. For [i]shame[/i], Robert Neville Janova! Double

Edited May 24, 2010 by Schattenmann

[Facade]

"As they came to the towns of Bethphage and Bethany, on the Mount of Olives, he sent two disciples ahead. "Go into that village over there," he told them, "and as you enter it, you will see a colt tied there that has never been ridden. Untie it and bring it here. If anyone asks what you are doing, just say, 'The Lord needs it.'" So they went and found the colt, just as Jesus had said. And sure enough, as they were untying it, the owners asked them, "Why are you untying our colt?" And the disciples simply replied, "The Lord needs it." So they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments over it for him to ride on." - Luke 19:29-35

Does this mean you'll steal members from Cybernations? If so, please steal me. I'm tired of my alliance.

Note: You think I'm lying? Seriously. Shoot me a recruitment message.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Facade

[Bob Janova]

Fishing for a CB?

[Horatio Longworth]

Moldavi has to create these "N_O" alliances doesn't he?

Read this one aloud: "Jesus went unto the mount of olives. John 8:1" win!

Have you been in NSO, NPO, or NpO before?

Edited May 24, 2010 by Horatio Longworth

[Facade]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='24 May 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1274740537' post='2310573']
Fishing for a CB?
[/quote]

Maybe.

[NationRuler]

[quote name='Sun WuKong' date='23 May 2010 - 01:56 PM' timestamp='1274640997' post='2309272']
I find it interesting that themed alliances can be about Mario Bros, Samurai, Star Wars, Germany, North Korea or all sorts of potentially OOC entities and no one raises an eyebrow - but bring in a Christian perspective and let the snarkiness begin...
[/quote]

Try and be snarky about Mario. HE'S FREAKING MARIO. And he exists in the world and I can touch him. And I can pray to him and know he does not listen.

"But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel, then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house"
Deuteronomy 22:20-21

Heed these wise words. I am certain they will assist you in building and maintaining your fine looking alliance. (Playing the whore....what was she thinking?)

[Uralica]

[quote name='Horatio Longworth' date='24 May 2010 - 04:17 PM' timestamp='1274743016' post='2310615']
Have you been in NSO, NPO, or NpO before?
[/quote]

He's an ex-Polar.

Also ex-CCC like me and ex-GPA like Sun WuKong.

[Reziun]

[quote name='Seth Muscarella' date='24 May 2010 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1274684002' post='2310021']
Nice, this thread couldn't be complete without a load of out of context Bible verses as some sort of clever banter.

Good luck to the NCO for wanting an alliance with a community brought together by similarities outside of Bob.
[/quote]

I definitely agree with the extremely out of context Bible verses, kinda disappointing to see.

Anyhow,

Good luck Keys! hope all goes well

[deSouza]

Good luck keystroke.
If you need any help, I'm still alive.

[Corinan]

"Those Bible verses only seem messed up because they're out of context!"

Classic.

Like you can frame a passage about oppressing women or advocating slavery in a positive manner somehow. Congrats on forming your alliance!

[GulagArchipelago]

[quote name='Corinan' date='25 May 2010 - 12:35 AM' timestamp='1274762126' post='2311000']
"Those Bible verses only seem messed up because they're out of context!"

Classic.

Like you can frame a passage about oppressing women or advocating slavery in a positive manner somehow. Congrats on forming your alliance!
[/quote]

Then again, let's ignore all of the historical contexts for those 4000 years.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='GulagArchipelago' date='25 May 2010 - 01:21 AM' timestamp='1274764842' post='2311035']
Then again, let's ignore all of the historical contexts for those 4000 years.
[/quote]

Actually, you can. You see.. some Christians like myself believe that under most of that 4000 years the true meaning of the Bible was taken out of context for political gain when the Church was merged with the Holy Roman Empire. People forget the historic context in which the words were written and the time through which it has traveled. If you remove all context.. including history. Sure, it looks absurd.

Politics + Faith/Church = Corruption. No avoiding it. To much power in one man's hands.

To give clarification.. a few verses of my own.

[quote name="Ephesians 5:22-28"]
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
[/quote]

As you can see even if a woman were submitting to the man, the man is practically enslaved by his own commitment to the woman, her care, treating her as if she were him. While he may have authority.. who really gets the benefit in the arrangement is debatable in a properly executed marriage. They're effectively one person.

[quote name="Ephesians 6:1-10 Proper translation KJV"]
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;

7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
[/quote]

You can be a servant without being a slave. Although Christ has also never advocated violent resistance either such as when he spoke of turning the other cheek. Acceptance of servitude until one can be peacefully freed is a demonstration of one's patience and character to endure, committing ones self to not sinning regardless of the temptation to do so to better your own situation. It may suck, but the reward is eternal if you succeed. There's also stories of masters being saved from their lifestyle patterns by slaves.

There are also numerous stories of slaves in the Bible seeking freedom from captivity from evil masters. If your master is evil, it's one of the few reasons to overthrow him if you take the rest of the book and its instructions in context.. which no one here spouting off random bible quotes without an explanation or understanding .. is doing.

Slavery is a human creation.. a pattern of behavior that must be addressed by God. Not the other way around.

I offer my rebuttal to those who think themselves Biblical scholars but are obviously just going for talking points.

Good luck in your endeavors NCO. Do not be put off by the persecutors. [ooc]It's typical for anyone who demonstrates a firm faith in pretty much anything on this forum. Detractors will flame you.[/ooc]

Edited May 25, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LokiLockpicker]

To be honest those views about women are part of the reason that it took them so long to gain equal rights. Those same views that the woman was spoken for by a man allowed a virtual slavery of them, because not all men continued to treat them as they should.

As far as slavery, as I recall it was allowed in the bible for the Hebrews, but a fellow Hebrew could only be in servitude for a maximum of 7 years before he was set free. They allowed slaves of conquered foes similar to many cultures. I don't think it became a real problem until Europeans started to grab African people for mass slavery.

Considering that both of those views evolved into a loss of rights, I'd say they can be judged without explicitly looking at their original context.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

[quote name='LokiLockpicker' date='25 May 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1274766291' post='2311053']
Considering that both of those views evolved into a loss of rights, I'd say they can be judged without explicitly looking at their original context.
[/quote]

We were given the word of God. The word of God is a tool and a guide for us. How we use a tool is like any other tool. You can use it for good or evil. Just like the detractors were using it to misguide people. It is not the fault of God that man takes words out of context and spins them in order to enslave their peer. That is purely a human tradition. You can't blame God for our imperfections. People who read for understanding know what the words mean. People who do not and exploit them for their own personal agenda do so at their own peril.

The Bible has at points been one of the most dangerous weapons on the planet. Notably, 900 AD-1600 AD.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Maelstrom Vortex

[LokiLockpicker]

[quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' date='25 May 2010 - 12:49 AM' timestamp='1274766543' post='2311058']
We were given the word of God. The word of God is a tool and a guide for us. How we use a tool is like any other tool. You can use it for good or evil. Just like the detractors were using it to misguide people. It is not the fault of God that man takes words out of context and spins them in order to enslave their peer. That is purely a human tradition. You can't blame God for our imperfections. People who read for understanding know what the words mean. People who do not and exploit them for their own personal agenda do so at their own peril.

The Bible has at points been one of the most dangerous weapons on the planet. Notably, 900 AD-1600 AD.
[/quote]

I agree with you, but the most you can really say of the bible is that it was inspired by God. There are parts that it wouldn't make sense to claim were God's will. Church officials in particular will tell you that it is only to be considered a spiritual guide.

Unfortunately for me, I am currently unable to read every part of it in its original language (being written in several dead languages) so the word of God given in it has been distorted not only by the writer, but also by the translator

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Which Church Officials? You see.. I'm of the Church of Christ. We do not have any officials outside of the local congregation and believe the only true leader of the Church is Christ himself. We do not follow the Catholic Pope. I believe the Pope, for example, to be an example of the ultimate form of corruption. Give unto Caesars, that which is Caesar.. but what happens when the person claiming to be the head of the Church is Caesar? How far does that claim extend? Anyway. I'm not going to bash on Catholicism, just know that I am not one and that is part of the reason why. I do not believe the political and the spiritual should ever merge and there's evidence in the Bible that it was never Christ's intent for the Church to be a political body, but stick to a role of a Social organization. Cardinals are not mentioned in the Bible anywhere.. for example. So my Church, the Church of Christ (not the latter day saint's one) is highly decentralized. We also believe that we are the only real Church of Christ and that no one but Christ may add or remove members from it. That said, we can't even judge each other to determine whether or not we are members of the Church.. basically.. if you have followed the instructions of the Lord and continue to do so, it is assumed you are a Christian and it is purely up to the self to maintain that obedience.

The Church of Christ is also so obsessed with getting it right most of our preachers strive earnestly for a vast majority of their life to come to an understanding of the raw original texts.. hebrew, greek, aramaic, whatever it happens to be. You're not really searching for God if you're not going beyond the English or being taught by someone who already has. There is too much lost to time. And yes, it is the Inspired Will of God.. that's what I believe.

One of the ways to filter what is truth and what is not and to understand better why some things were written the way they were is to take into context the culture in which the Bible was written.

If, for example, you advocated for Women's Rights in the era you're talking about and women truly were liberated by the faith, then most women would have starved to death, because by the laws at the time a woman couldn't even own land or hold a job. It was as much the political environment and mechanization at the time that dictated how the word had to be written. Also, there is a clear role for Women in the Church and in the Family by our faith.. and it's not slavery.. it is submission, but it is a voluntary submission.

Religion is about obedience.. you may chose to go by the design or do something different. God could have written the laws of the Universe in a number of ways. Having written physics itself he could have made murder, for example.. a righteous act that caused many great things to happen in the world.. but that's not how he had it done. The reason Righteousness.. is Righteousness.. and morality is moral.. is purely because God made the universe that way. We however, only know the context of our own universe and so do not realize that evil.. is simple disobedience to God.. nothing more. Society has tried to re-frame it and in doing so assumed itself greater than God in the determination of what is right and wrong and that's a grave place to go.