A Joint Announcement by the Orange Defense Network and Sparta

[Griff]

[quote name='Unholy' date='04 May 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1272945497' post='2286003']
You really can't put your ego on hold for the sake of a decent discussion can you? I mean, god forbid the great RV is wrong every once in a while! That's blasphemy.

Seriously, RV. Your arrogance and inflated view of yourself serves no purpose but to get in the way of that which you claim to seek. A decent argument.
[/quote]
I am amused by how much you're letting him get to you

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Seth Muscarella' date='04 May 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1272945705' post='2286009']
Wait, so we don't want to make enemies, and it goes against our instincts, but you never offered proof that we aren't aggressive. Could you please expand on that? I'm curious to know about my own alliance from an outside view, as your experience is unchallenged.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Prove to me that you are aggressive. You can't expect me to prove a negative now, can you?[/color]

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 11:56 PM' timestamp='1272945370' post='2286000']
[color="#0000FF"]I spelled it out for you and it still flies over your head? Very well, I'll give it another try before I give up all hope for you. I said you are cowards. Yes, you got that part right. Have a cookie. I did not say you were aggressive, however. Aggressive alliances make enemies, as I stated, which goes against your instincts. You do not want to make enemies. There, now do you get it?[/color]
[/quote]
No, explain it to me again, please.

[Seth Muscarella]

i've seen you do magic before.

[Unholy]

What we expect is some evidence. What you are presenting to us is just a statement with absolutely nothing to back it up but your own opinion. Opinions and facts aren't the same thing (yeah, even yours), so if you present to us some evidence, then and only then can we provide some counter examples.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Griff' date='04 May 2010 - 12:02 AM' timestamp='1272945728' post='2286011']
I am amused by how much you're letting him get to you
[/quote]
Big words used properly despite the negative connotations associated with them do make people sound aggravated, don't they?

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='03 May 2010 - 09:10 PM' timestamp='1272946231' post='2286028']
Big words used properly despite the negative connotations associated with them do make people sound aggravated, don't they?
[/quote]
dude, what did i ever do to you to deserve such rage directed at me?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='04 May 2010 - 12:09 AM' timestamp='1272946161' post='2286022']
No, explain it to me again, please.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]No. I can't very well be expected to do all your thinking for you now? Oh wait, you don't need me to do that for you. That's why you have Archon! Go ask him.[/color]

[quote name='Unholy' date='04 May 2010 - 12:10 AM' timestamp='1272946217' post='2286027']
What we expect is some evidence. What you are presenting to us is just a statement with absolutely nothing to back it up but your own opinion. Opinions and facts aren't the same thing (yeah, even yours), so if you present to us some evidence, then and only then can we provide some counter examples.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I have presented evidence that you are an unworthy ally. Even for ODN. I have given you your history several times already. But I will do so again if you wish to be so obliged.

Your alliance was founded by wartime deserters. You bailed on Polaris when they needed you. You turned on Pacifica when they needed you. Why should we expect you to treat ODN any differently? As I said before, history is not on your side.[/color]

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='04 May 2010 - 12:15 AM' timestamp='1272946538' post='2286035']
[color="#0000FF"]No. I can't very well be expected to do all your thinking for you now? Oh wait, you don't need me to do that for you. That's why you have Archon! Go ask him.[/color][/quote]
Do you think he'll really be able to do a better job at explaining it than you?


[quote][color="#0000FF"]I have presented evidence that you are an unworthy ally. Even for ODN. I have given you your history several times already. But I will do so again if you wish to be so obliged.

Your alliance was founded by wartime deserters. You bailed on Polaris when they needed you. You turned on Pacifica when they needed you. Why should we expect you to treat ODN any differently? As I said before, history is not on your side.[/color]
[/quote]
History isn't evidence. History is leverage.

Glad to see you're trying to apply it, though.

Edited May 4, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1272946538' post='2286035']
No. I can't very well be expected to do all your thinking for you now? Oh wait, you don't need me to do that for you. That's why you have Archon! Go ask him.
[/quote]
Your tactics do not work on us; everyone knows that Londo is king of Sparta!

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1272943623' post='2285945']
[color="#0000FF"]If you care to take a look around you'll find that I have quite a following. Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean that others feel the same way.

Also, Olaf, based on your conduct here I don't believe it is a stretch for me to say that I am the superior leader and intellectual here.[/quote]

[size="7"]ROFL[/size] Man, you crack me up. You're alright.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='04 May 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1272946689' post='2286040']
Do you think he'll really be able to do a better job at explaining it than you?[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I doubt it, but I can at the very least hope that you might actually listen to him.[/color]

[quote]History isn't evidence.[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]As a historian, I disagree.[/color]

[Ian Dox]

I demand a 13th page.

It will amuse me.

Oh, incase you're just checking in, here's the summary:

ODN & Sparta signed a MDoAP, which, of course, we'll cancel the moment ODN is on the "losing" side.

Rebel Virginia is always right; everyone else who argues with him is automatically wrong.

Sparta is canceling on the Asgaard; sorry guys, love ya, but you're just not "in power" enough for us. Call us back when you're dominating Planet Bob, and I'm sure we'll reinstate our MDoAP with ya.

Wilhelm the Demented wants everyone to visit [url="http://www.cnsparta.com"]Sparta[/url] if you're serious about knowing about Sparta. If you're not serious, then prepare for more abuse.

Olaf is very

I, on the other hand, am very and am enjoying the entire show.

Now, dance, puppets, dance!

Edited May 4, 2010 by Ian Dox

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='04 May 2010 - 12:20 AM' timestamp='1272946804' post='2286044']
[color="#0000FF"]I doubt it, but I can at the very least hope that you might actually listen to him.[/color][/quote] Refer to Sethly's latest post.


[quote][color="#0000FF"]As a historian, I disagree.[/color]
[/quote]
As someone with their head in the present and their gaze set to the future, I disagree.

Keep up the good word, scholar!

Edited May 4, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[Ian Dox]

[quote name='Seth Muscarella' date='03 May 2010 - 11:18 PM' timestamp='1272946708' post='2286042']
Your tactics do not work on us; everyone knows that Londo is king of Sparta!
[/quote]

It's May now Sethly; it's Delta's turn in the big chair for this month...

[Chet Ubet]

/pokes head in

Good luck, and congrats on the new treaty.

[Ian Dox]

Thank you sir for your warm well wishes.

May you have a fine and grand day!

On a side note, page 13, baby!

[PrinceArutha]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='04 May 2010 - 05:18 AM' timestamp='1272946689' post='2286040']
History isn't evidence.
[/quote]

You know, in the past, my neighbors dog bit me. One day i was riding my bike and I stopped and went to pet him and he bit me. I was hurt more emotionally than physically, about a month later the dog bit me again while I was taking out the garbage for my mom. The dog was quarantined for 2 weeks and was cleared by the vet. I, being a naive 7 year old forgave and forgot about the incident. 3 months later I was bit again by the same dog requiring 11 stitches and leaving a pretty nasty scar on my face that I have to this day. Now, knowing the dogs HISTORY I should have known that it was prone to turning on me and biting me, However I kept giving the dog a chance thinking that it would change. I should have looked at the EVIDENCE that the dog had been proving me and seeing the dogs violent history I should have made a better educated decision and just steered clear of the dog.

History IS evidence of a person/animal/alliance's character. to say that History isnt evidence is foolish. Now, is History also leverage? Sure. Can persons/animals/alliances change? Absolutely. However, dealing with such things and looking at the evidence/history of the aforementioned I would venture to say you are foolish to keep playing with a dog that has bitten someone before. My friends wouldnt play with the dog because it was evident that it would turn on you.... My friends we also smarter than me.

Looking to the future is nice, Everyone should look to the future.... But only a foolish person would not look at the history of an individual/group before getting all cuddly with them. If you were an employer would you hire someone who had a history of being late, stealing and violence in the work place? no... because there is evidence that they will probably do it again. Im sure these different scenarios will probably just be brushed aside, but remember, in a LOT of cases on Planet Bob it's not about how YOU view yourself, it's all about how the rest of the Planet Views you.

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Ian Dox' date='04 May 2010 - 12:20 AM' timestamp='1272946808' post='2286045']
I demand a 13th page.

It will amuse me.

Oh, incase you're just checking in, here's the summary:

ODN & Sparta signed a MDoAP, which, of course, we'll cancel the moment ODN is on the "losing" side.

Rebel Virginia is always right; everyone else who argues with him is automatically wrong.

Sparta is canceling on the Asgaard; sorry guys, love ya, but you're just not "in power" enough for us. Call us back when you're dominating Planet Bob, and I'm sure we'll reinstate our MDoAP with ya.

Wilhelm the Demented wants everyone to visit [url="http://www.cnsparta.com"]Sparta[/url] if you're serious about knowing about Sparta. If you're not serious, then prepare for more abuse.

Olaf is very

I, on the other hand, am very and am enjoying the entire show.

Now, dance, puppets, dance!
[/quote]

You should have put this as the first post following the treaty, because obviously this thread would devolve into such shens!

Thanks Ian for making me laugh this morning, even if you guys are ruthless cowards incapable of defending an ally and incompetent enough to let someone worse than RV into your throne chair, I still love ya!

RV, Thanks for the debate last night, if you can call it that (usually a debate involves someone conceding to the fact that they did not know aspects pointed out to them and agreeing at least in part the other party had something to refute) it was actually interesting. I can only wonder how you really feel, because if you're smart enough to play this ego then you probably aren't that bad when you give it a rest.

[unpronounced]

You guys realize you just add more confusion to the treaty web, don't you?

Seriously: Good to see Sparta and ODN, (both good friends of MHA), sign an MDoAP.

(And why is Itida's name there?)

[Olaf Styke]

Well I think we can conclude this thread with a short summary:

ODN = Win

Sparta = Win

ODN + Sparta = Win

RV, Damsky, Halfinger, and the rest of OpFor = Fail

Olaf =

/thread

[Emporor]

Congrats to you both.

[Bob Janova]

How one deals with criticism – particularly the often inane antics of RV – says a great deal more about you than the criticism itself. And Sparta has really responded very poorly to what are unusually factual points made by RV in this thread. I don't think I've seen a post from Olaf that actually tried to make a coherent point in the whole thing.

The correct approach to the charge 'Your history shows you as a cowardly alliance which jumps to the winning side' is not 'History doesn't matter' – it's either 'Our history doesn't show that, because (mitigating circumstances or inaccuracies in the critic's account)', or 'We've learnt from our mistakes in the past and here's some proof that we have changed'. Or, if it's RV, ignore him and hope nobody bothers to read the walls of blue. Sending in the OWF cavalry (a King, no less!) to bluster, evade, insult and avoid the point is the worst possible approach.

Regarding Bipolar, anyone who claims they thought C&G and allies might lose after TOP/IRON attacked them and Polar bailed out is a liar. If you had thought that, you'd have taken the white peace offered by TOP/IRON the moment they realised they'd been betrayed.

[flak attack]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='04 May 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1272989122' post='2286442']
Regarding Bipolar, anyone who claims they thought C&G and allies might lose after TOP/IRON attacked them and Polar bailed out is a liar. If you had thought that, you'd have taken the white peace offered by TOP/IRON the moment they realised they'd been betrayed.
[/quote]
Sparta launched attacks less than a half hour after IRON did IIRC. They were clearly on board before Polar pulled out, especially since their DoW was posted before the Polar-\m/ peace peace.

[The AUT]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='04 May 2010 - 04:26 PM' timestamp='1272986785' post='2286407']
Well I think we can conclude this thread with a short summary:

ODN = Win

Sparta = Win

ODN + Sparta = Win

RV, Damsky, Halfinger, and the rest of OpFor = Fail

Olaf =

/thread
[/quote]

Are you really the king of Sparta? If so you fit the mold quite nicely I must say.