The New Grämlins

[wenwillthisend]

[quote name='Derantol' date='26 May 2010 - 07:06 PM' timestamp='1274864778' post='2312236']
I actually have full confidence that The Codex means a lot to them; they interpret it differently than we do, but they stick to what they see. The difference is, as was pointed out a few posts ago, no one in IRON trusts Gramlins; and without a trust of Gramlins, we can't trust any internal documents they present to us.

That said, as I recall, you were recently in Gramlins? I suppose you would know better than I.
[/quote]


I was in Gre up untill recently. you would be correct. They will interpret the codex to suit the current day.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='26 May 2010 - 03:55 AM' timestamp='1274864099' post='2312234']
I can honestly say that The Codex means absolutly nothing to Gre, they are just hiding behind it. Oh and I do believe Gre will not sign anything that is classed as a treaty.
[/quote]
Worry not, we know

The second part just seems endlessly stupid to me. "HURR WE CAN'T SIGN A SURRENDER DOCUMENT IT IS A TREATY!" If they don't drop that nonsense they'll be at war forever on a technicality. Which is monumental stupidity.

[Coursca]

[quote name='bigwoody' date='26 May 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1274878676' post='2312297']
Worry not, we know

The second part just seems endlessly stupid to me. "HURR WE CAN'T SIGN A SURRENDER DOCUMENT IT IS A TREATY!" If they don't drop that nonsense they'll be at war forever on a technicality. Which is monumental stupidity.
[/quote]

I guffaw'd.

I am left to wonder how they can continue to maintain that line once actually defeated themselves.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='26 May 2010 - 05:42 AM' timestamp='1274848928' post='2312121']
This is not about any terms IRON has given in the past only about what they did to engage this war.
[/quote]

Oh yes of course its only about this war. Actually wait.. I think I heard somewhere about 150 pages back, that we had 'aligned' ourselves against you twice now in back-to-back global conflicts and so now we are being held at war because of it.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='26 May 2010 - 05:42 AM' timestamp='1274848928' post='2312121']
[b]And GRE isn't giving bad terms, nor are we trying to.[/b]

This has nothing to do with karma.[/quote]

Is Matthew PK claiming to know the terms now? Has your lunatic of a leader let you into his inner circle? Please enlighten us with these terms.



[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='26 May 2010 - 09:55 AM' timestamp='1274864099' post='2312234']
I can honestly say that The Codex means absolutly nothing to Gre, they are just hiding behind it. Oh and I do believe Gre will not sign anything that is classed as a treaty.
[/quote]

Interesting to hear. Not that we expected anything different. Please share more of your views since you just recently left GRE. I'm sure you can help everyone understand the non-sense that was spoon fed to you all by your leadership.

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='25 May 2010 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1274840072' post='2311929']
Err, what?

I think there's a real (if not particularly great) chance that Gremlins would not do anything if you were to all leave peace mode.
[/quote]

Because the longer GRE dillies and dallies, the greater our advantage.

[quote name='King Chill I' date='26 May 2010 - 12:05 AM' timestamp='1274846732' post='2312088']
Why are putting someone else's comments under my name? What is that a new form of creative writing?
[/quote]

Yeah, I don't know what happened there. I blame BnT.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='26 May 2010 - 12:42 AM' timestamp='1274848928' post='2312121']And GRE isn't giving bad terms, nor are we trying to.[/quote]

Truer words have never been spoken, Matthew.

Mostly because you're not really in a position to offer terms.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Grimm Reaper' date='26 May 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1274888589' post='2312383']
Because the longer GRE dillies and dallies, the greater our advantage.
[/quote]

Not so. Gremlins nations are currently collecting taxes in war mode. IRON's upper tier is currently collecting taxes in peace mode.

The only way time would be on your side is if the decline in Gremlins membership was maintained, but I don't think that will be the case.

[Bob Janova]

The 'line' is now between Bathala Bino (54k and descending) and Killerlight (70k), or if he is a long term peace mode protestor, Folkminister (74k). Discounting the three PM nations, Grämlins only have 11 nations left above the line. IRON have 13 over 60k (though of course you can't guarantee that they'd all come out either). Grämlins still maintain something of a top tier advantage but just a few more defections or new recruits for IRON and they won't even have that. The fact that they're not engaging Jim and CT implies that they are not confident in their ability to win the top tier fight, and if that's true and IRON can come out of PM, the war will quickly become little more than a minor irritation for IRON.

[Wad of Lint]

Only the Gramlins can lose a war they technically won.

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='26 May 2010 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1274890753' post='2312399']
Not so. Gremlins nations are currently collecting taxes in war mode. IRON's upper tier is currently collecting taxes in peace mode.

The only way time would be on your side is if the decline in Gremlins membership was maintained, but I don't think that will be the case.
[/quote]

The decline is over for the time being. This is conceded.

It will continue once warfare resumes, however. I wonder, when the upper ranks are faced with the prospect of going to ZI over their government's refusal to accept white peace from a much larger force, how many will remain. I wonder how many believe that IRON should be subject to unconditional surrender so strongly that they are willing to go to ZI themselves. 90%? 50%? 75%? 100%? 5?

The decline is in a sort of moratorium. It has not stopped.

However, referring back to my original point, I was referring to our advancing middle ranks which are entirely in war mode. The 50-or-so nations between 20K and 40K strength. As that little bloc increases, the strength threshold that their upper ranks need to fall in order to get completely swarmed decreases.

That is why time is on our side.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='26 May 2010 - 12:47 PM' timestamp='1274892413' post='2312416']
The 'line' is now between Bathala Bino (54k and descending) and Killerlight (70k), or if he is a long term peace mode protestor, Folkminister (74k). Discounting the three PM nations, Grämlins only have 11 nations left above the line. IRON have 13 over 60k (though of course you can't guarantee that they'd all come out either). Grämlins still maintain something of a top tier advantage but just a few more defections or new recruits for IRON and they won't even have that. The fact that they're not engaging Jim and CT implies that they are not confident in their ability to win the top tier fight, and if that's true and IRON can come out of PM, the war will quickly become little more than a minor irritation for IRON.
[/quote]

Gre has the problem of having an advantage they can't risk.

Their claim to relevance, the only thing separating them from the 101 other nameless micros out there is their top tier. If it gets mauled, even in a fight they win, they just become a stack of unpopular nobodies.

Now ramirus is clearly on a fairly big ego trip at this point, do you think he wants to risk giving up that which makes him important?

[Grimm Reaper]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='26 May 2010 - 05:13 PM' timestamp='1274908365' post='2312627']
Gre has the problem of having an advantage they can't risk.

Their claim to relevance, the only thing separating them from the 101 other nameless micros out there is their top tier. If it gets mauled, even in a fight they win, they just become a stack of unpopular nobodies.

Now ramirus is clearly on a fairly big ego trip at this point, do you think he wants to risk giving up that which makes him important?
[/quote]

He's going to be giving it up sooner or later eventually, anyway, whether by his own choice or not.

At this point, they have little more than a slight edge in their top tiers and initiative. Which is kind of unfortunate, because First Strike is a *far* better weapon ability.

/went there

Edited May 26, 2010 by Grimm Reaper

[Baldr]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='26 May 2010 - 11:19 AM' timestamp='1274890753' post='2312399']
The only way time would be on your side is if the decline in Gremlins membership was maintained, but I don't think that will be the case.
[/quote]

I think the bulk of Gramlins nations who would be likely to leave or delete have already done so.

But I wouldn't say it's entirely over. They lost another nation, over 100k NS, between yesterday and today.

Even if the Gramlins never lost another nation, the Gramlins nations aren't able to do a lot of growth - and there are hundreds of IRON/DAWN nations slowly catching up to them. The Gramlins near the NS line will continue to be knocked down, the NS line will continue to grow.

And some of those Gramlins nations who are sticking it out right now may change their mind when *their* nation gets attacked, or is the next nation at the NS line about to be attacked.

And if they decide to stick it out then, they'll just get beat down. After a week (minimum) of being nuked, will they be able to keep IRON from repeating it for another week, then another? I doubt it.

I don't see any way for IRON to take out all the Gramlins at once. But one at a time, bit by bit, I can't see any way for Gramlins to avoid the downfall. Therefore I'd say that time is on IRON's side.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='26 May 2010 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1274890753' post='2312399']
Not so. Gremlins nations are currently collecting taxes in war mode. IRON's upper tier is currently collecting taxes in peace mode.
[/quote]
Well, except for IRON's two largest nations.

[Derantol]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='26 May 2010 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1274914485' post='2312707']
Well, except for IRON's two largest nations.
[/quote]

Baby steps, man. Baby steps.

[SilentFury]

Viva la Iron

Death to grem!!

[KainIIIC]

Folkminister looks awfully close to deletion as well. They lost a 100ker (anyone know who it was?) while Bagong, Slaughterhouse and Rep of Phillipines are all on their way down the infra slope (assuming they get their share of nukes from Yggdrazil) and thus NS slope.

If Folkminister gets deleted, Gramlins won't even be on the 2nd page anymore. They're being left with very few good options. Talk about grasping defeat from the claws of victory..

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='KainIIIC' date='27 May 2010 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1274934151' post='2313118']
Folkminister looks awfully close to deletion as well. They lost a 100ker (anyone know who it was?)
[/quote]
[url="http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=63285"]Duex Ex Machina[/url] has left Gremlins and applied to Mushroom Kingdom.

[dragonknight1000]

[quote name='KainIIIC' date='26 May 2010 - 11:22 PM' timestamp='1274934151' post='2313118']
Talk about grasping defeat from the claws of victory..
[/quote]

this mess in a nutshell V_V (for Gre)

Edited May 27, 2010 by dragonknight1000

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='KainIIIC' date='27 May 2010 - 12:22 AM' timestamp='1274934151' post='2313118']They're being left with very few good options.
[/quote]
Or they could just friggen accept the white peace.

[MCRABT]

[quote name='Geoffron X' date='27 May 2010 - 06:20 AM' timestamp='1274937620' post='2313193']
Or they could just friggen accept the white peace.
[/quote]

Most alliances in their situation would recognise that this is the only plausible exit from this conflict that doesn't see their alliance left in ruins. Alas Ramirus is a special.

Edited May 27, 2010 by MCRABT

[Il Impero Romano]

[quote name='MCRABT' date='27 May 2010 - 08:08 AM' timestamp='1274944092' post='2313281']
Alas Ramirus is a special.
[/quote]


And that is what this 176 page thread basically boils down to.

[trance addict]

At some point it would be fitting for IRON/DAWN to pull their offer of white peace (maybe when gRAMlins accept it?) and inturn set out a new list of demands to achieve peace. Maybe in the range of 150K Tech (roughly the amount they owe in REPS to CnG/Superfriends)?

[Qazzian]

That 150k tech would be all the tech that Gramlins has. After going through Karma reps and paying more than we had at the time of signing, I can in no way support that idea, even if it is being demanded by our friends in IRON.

[Wes Walz Pants]

[quote name='Qazzian' date='27 May 2010 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1274969515' post='2313491']
That 150k tech would be all the tech that Gramlins has. After going through Karma reps and paying more than we had at the time of signing, I can in no way support that idea, [b]even if it is being demanded by our friends in IRON.[/b]
[/quote]
Which it is not.

[Gamemaster1]

[quote name='Calderone' date='27 May 2010 - 10:29 AM' timestamp='1274970527' post='2313500']
Which it is not.
[/quote]
Nor will it ever be.