The New Grämlins

[PrideAssassin]

lolRAMlins
I can smash these guys forever. More offensive casualties for me.
Ferro Credimus!

[Ashoka the Great]

[quote name='King Chill I' date='22 April 2010 - 12:29 PM' timestamp='1271953754' post='2270781']
Fail joke and potentially the lamest comment in a thread full of em. [/quote]

I'd rather make a bad joke than open my mouth and [i]become[/i] the bad joke.

Please, keep talking.

[SynthFG]

[quote name='PrideAssassin' date='22 April 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1271966495' post='2270992']
lolRAMlins
I can smash these guys forever. More offensive casualties for me.
Ferro Credimus!
[/quote]


Does your remaining top end have the balls to come out of peace mode and try to finish the job tho,
Being as most of them (Bar Matt who despite everything has my utmost respect for his conduct on the field of battle) didn't emerge once in the recent conflict I doubt it

[shahenshah]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='23 April 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1271969648' post='2271055']
Does your remaining top end have the balls to come out of peace mode and try to finish the job tho,
Being as most of them (Bar Matt who despite everything has my utmost respect for his conduct on the field of battle) didn't emerge once in the recent conflict I doubt it
[/quote]

"Peace mode = cowards" is the new Gre PR offensive...really? :S

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='22 April 2010 - 04:53 PM' timestamp='1271980374' post='2271300']
"Peace mode = cowards" is the new Gre PR offensive...really? :S
[/quote]
Synth isn't in GRE

[shilo]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='22 April 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1271969648' post='2271055']
Does your remaining top end have the balls to come out of peace mode and try to finish the job tho,
Being as most of them (Bar Matt who despite everything has my utmost respect for his conduct on the field of battle) didn't emerge once in the recent conflict I doubt it
[/quote]
First you think TORN should be attacked for informing the members of gRAMlins about the actions of their government, now you try the peace mode propaganda. Sorry to have say this, but this is pretty outdated nowadays, but please, keep them coming, those rhetorical gems of yours

[tobbogon]

[quote name='shilo' date='22 April 2010 - 07:59 PM' timestamp='1271980732' post='2271306']
First you think TORN should be attacked for informing the members of gRAMlins about the actions of their government
[/quote]
You make that sound much worse than it really is. Our members are not banned from reading the OWF, asking government members what is happening, or even looking at some of the threads about the matter. TORN's message did not seem like a "Hey buddy, i just thought you should know..." kind of message. It was a "Hey, your government is full of idiots, and they're going to get your nation destroyed. You should leave asap" kind of message.

Just today NSO told me i should leave because my NS was at sake, so I should leave. Doppleganger told me that Gre has lost 1 million NS in about 2 weeks! Did you guys know it takes 23 days to count to a million? A million is a whole lot, isn't it TOP, MK, IRON? You've all lost a couple of those recently. I dont think anyone got too upset about their NS going away. I dont see why I should either.

[Lennox]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='22 April 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1271983687' post='2271354']
Just today NSO told me i should leave because my NS was at sake, so I should leave. Doppleganger told me that Gre has lost 1 million NS in about 2 weeks! Did you guys know it takes 23 days to count to a million? A million is a whole lot, isn't it TOP, MK, IRON? You've all lost a couple of those recently. I dont think anyone got too upset about their NS going away. I dont see why I should either.
[/quote]

I will take that as a drawn out thank you. So, you're welcome.

[Elderago]

this isnt't "the new gramlins" they have always been like this, it's just that there sphere of influence has increased over the years.

don't fool yourself

[The Big Bad]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='22 April 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1271983687' post='2271354']
You make that sound much worse than it really is. Our members are not banned from reading the OWF, asking government members what is happening, or even looking at some of the threads about the matter. TORN's message did not seem like a "Hey buddy, i just thought you should know..." kind of message. It was a "Hey, your government is full of idiots, and they're going to get your nation destroyed. You should leave asap" kind of message.

Just today NSO told me i should leave because my NS was at sake, so I should leave. Doppleganger told me that Gre has lost 1 million NS in about 2 weeks! Did you guys know it takes 23 days to count to a million? A million is a whole lot, isn't it TOP, MK, IRON? You've all lost a couple of those recently. I dont think anyone got too upset about their NS going away. I dont see why I should either.
[/quote]

Did you know you were on the side of a war that was won but, because your leadership is so completely incompetent you have managed to not only get your lower levels killed, turn everyone against you, are loosing members at a regular pace, are screwing the people that used to call you friends out of reps and now have no chance of ever getting unconditional surrender from anyone? Talk about snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. Also it appears TORNs messages were at least completely honest. You government is full of idiots,they're going to get your nation destroyed. You should leave asap.

[Lennox]

[quote name='sircrimson' date='22 April 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1271987913' post='2271447']
this isnt't "the new gramlins" they have always been like this, it's just that there sphere of influence has increased over the years.

don't fool yourself
[/quote]

Son what are you talking about?

[img]http://www.gifbin.com/bin/sw7yu299707.gif[/img]

Edited April 23, 2010 by Lennox

[Dochartaigh]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='22 April 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1271969648' post='2271055']
Does your remaining top end have the balls to come out of peace mode and try to finish the job tho,
Being as most of them (Bar Matt who despite everything has my utmost respect for his conduct on the field of battle) didn't emerge once in the recent conflict I doubt it
[/quote]

really? this is the best you got Synth. come on, this is just pathetic. considering that IRON have no nations over 100k compared to Gremlins 9 nations over 100k... then take into account the other 23 Gre nations between 50k and 100k compared to the 10 nations IRON has over 50k and it would be quite foolish for IRON to do such.

you should really look at some sort of CN tactical guide before attempting this line of thought. i know MK has quite a few top notch tacticians and strategists. i would suggest discussing such issues with them before opening your mouth again, lest you wish to just sound completely foolish.

[Baldr]

Right now, there is a line, apparently somewhere around 35k NS. Gramlins nations lower than that are either in peace mode, or they are getting beaten down.

As time goes on, that line is going to rise. Any Gramlin close to that line will have to either grow enough to stay above the line, wherever it happens to be, or they will have to go to peace mode (and stay there) or they will have to fight. And when they fight, they'll get knocked down, and IRON/DAWN will keep them in war until they are beat down near ZI and held there.

Oh - they have one other option, too. They can leave Gramlins and come to individual terms with IRON/DAWN.

As time goes on, the NS level that IRON/DAWN can hit will grow. I expect IRON to get quite a few nations near that NS line, ready for war, and then grow them enough to attack. Pick the next Gramlin on the list, beat him down. Rinse and repeat. Each time one Gramlins nation gets drug down, the NS line rises.

Gramlins can't win - Gramlins can't fight most of the IRON/DAWN nations without getting beat down.

IRON/DAWN aren't going to agree to unconditional surrender.

So I expect this to be a long process unless Gramlins either comes to their senses or falls apart.

And unless Gramlins get some allies who want to do the fighting in the range near that NS line, to keep IRON from growing enough to hit Gramlins lower end nations, I see it as inevitable that IRON/DAWN win this. Time consuming, and it certainly hurts IRON/DAWN to have to go through this process, but Gramlins really isn't in a position to stop it.

[Mussolandia]

[quote name='SirWilliam' date='21 April 2010 - 06:38 PM' timestamp='1271875093' post='2269336']
Matter settled. Our Sith Overlords have given judgment.
[/quote]

Well, considering how much you guys brag about our insolent, leeching selves being under your protection back then, you should also take credit for it. Enabler.

[shilo]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='23 April 2010 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1271983687' post='2271354']
You make that sound much worse than it really is. Our members are not banned from reading the OWF, asking government members what is happening, or even looking at some of the threads about the matter. TORN's message did not seem like a "Hey buddy, i just thought you should know..." kind of message. It was a "Hey, your government is full of idiots, and they're going to get your nation destroyed. You should leave asap" kind of message.

Just today NSO told me i should leave because my NS was at sake, so I should leave. Doppleganger told me that Gre has lost 1 million NS in about 2 weeks! Did you guys know it takes 23 days to count to a million? A million is a whole lot, isn't it TOP, MK, IRON? You've all lost a couple of those recently. I dont think anyone got too upset about their NS going away. I dont see why I should either.
[/quote]
No offense, but your government [b][u]is[/u][/b] full of idiots, and they are going to get your individual nation as well as your alliance destroyed. I know that sounds harsh, sadly it's the truth. But considering the motivational speeches given recently by your government, a glass of the harsh truth is exactly what you guys don't get from your government. So thank TORN for giving you the info you should have gotten from ram instead.


And I think it shows that NSO cares when they talk to you about what likely concerns you guys the most - your NS. You can be glad that there are alliances out there that take into consideration the individual's preferences.

[ojiras ajeridas]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='23 April 2010 - 02:48 AM' timestamp='1271983687' post='2271354']
You make that sound much worse than it really is. Our members are not banned from reading the OWF, asking government members what is happening, or even looking at some of the threads about the matter. TORN's message did not seem like a "Hey buddy, i just thought you should know..." kind of message. It was a "Hey, your government is full of idiots, and they're going to get your nation destroyed. You should leave asap" kind of message.
[/quote]
According to the statements of members of your alliance like "The interests of our members matter only during elections times" or "Our members don't get information because of OPSEC reasons" I really don't know how to read these lines....

[Azrael Alexander]

[quote name='Baldr' date='23 April 2010 - 05:20 AM' timestamp='1271996396' post='2271638']
Right now, there is a line, apparently somewhere around 35k NS. Gramlins nations lower than that are either in peace mode, or they are getting beaten down.

As time goes on, that line is going to rise. Any Gramlin close to that line will have to either grow enough to stay above the line, wherever it happens to be, or they will have to go to peace mode (and stay there) or they will have to fight. And when they fight, they'll get knocked down, and IRON/DAWN will keep them in war until they are beat down near ZI and held there.

Oh - they have one other option, too. They can leave Gramlins and come to individual terms with IRON/DAWN.

As time goes on, the NS level that IRON/DAWN can hit will grow. I expect IRON to get quite a few nations near that NS line, ready for war, and then grow them enough to attack. Pick the next Gramlin on the list, beat him down. Rinse and repeat. Each time one Gramlins nation gets drug down, the NS line rises.

Gramlins can't win - Gramlins can't fight most of the IRON/DAWN nations without getting beat down.

IRON/DAWN aren't going to agree to unconditional surrender.

So I expect this to be a long process unless Gramlins either comes to their senses or falls apart.

And unless Gramlins get some allies who want to do the fighting in the range near that NS line, to keep IRON from growing enough to hit Gramlins lower end nations, I see it as inevitable that IRON/DAWN win this. Time consuming, and it certainly hurts IRON/DAWN to have to go through this process, but Gramlins really isn't in a position to stop it.
[/quote]

If they coordinated well I'm sure they could bring the Gre's entire top end below that threshold and allow them to be pummled nicly in an IRON sandwich. It's happening to me right now and then hopefully we could end this war sooner rather than later .

[ojiras ajeridas]

[quote name='Shamshir' date='23 April 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1272022946' post='2271925']
If they coordinated well I'm sure they could bring the Gre's entire top end below that threshold and allow them to be pummled nicly in an IRON sandwich. It's happening to me right now and then hopefully we could end this war sooner rather than later .
[/quote]
For what I understood in this thread, the war could already be over - at least from IRON's side.

[Corinan]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='22 April 2010 - 08:48 PM' timestamp='1271983687' post='2271354']
You make that sound much worse than it really is. Our members are not banned from reading the OWF, asking government members what is happening, or even looking at some of the threads about the matter. TORN's message did not seem like a "Hey buddy, i just thought you should know..." kind of message. It was a "Hey, your government is full of idiots, and they're going to get your nation destroyed. You should leave asap" kind of message.

Just today NSO told me i should leave because my NS was at sake, so I should leave. Doppleganger told me that Gre has lost 1 million NS in about 2 weeks! Did you guys know it takes 23 days to count to a million? A million is a whole lot, isn't it TOP, MK, IRON? You've all lost a couple of those recently. I dont think anyone got too upset about their NS going away. I dont see why I should either.
[/quote]

Just doing my part. Glad you liked the messages.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]And I think it shows that NSO cares when they talk to you about what likely concerns you guys the most - your NS. You can be glad that there are alliances out there that take into consideration the individual's preferences. [/quote]
This has been a persistent misconception about Citadel alliances. I think TOP showed pretty clearly that NS is not the primary concern of Citadel membership, and if you talk to some of the Grämlins who have left recently, I doubt you'll find that losing NS was their main issue either.

Regarding Baldr's post, yes, I said something similar (either in this thread or on our boards, I forget). It will hold IRON's regrowth back and therefore leave them a month or two behind the curve in rebuilding and coming out of terms, but with time they can literally ZI every member of Grämlins, and more importantly, destroy most of their land and tech. A lot of them have quite large warchests, but not enough to rebuild into the top tier from ZI and maintain a workable one, and warchests can't replenish lost tech. IRON/DAWN will be set back a couple of months; Grämlins a couple of [i]years[/i] (and that's just militarily, not counting members getting sick of this government and leaving).

[Azrael Alexander]

[quote name='Corinan' date='23 April 2010 - 02:03 PM' timestamp='1272027809' post='2271965']
Just doing my part. Glad you liked the messages.
[/quote]

Hope you liked my Haiku

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Shamshir' date='23 April 2010 - 06:42 AM' timestamp='1272022946' post='2271925']
If they coordinated well I'm sure they could bring the Gre's entire top end below that threshold and allow them to be pummled nicly in an IRON sandwich. It's happening to me right now and then hopefully we could end this war sooner rather than later .
[/quote]
Your alliance could end the war tonight, very easily.

[amad123]

[quote name='Shamshir' date='23 April 2010 - 07:42 AM' timestamp='1272022946' post='2271925']
If they coordinated well I'm sure they could bring the Gre's entire top end below that threshold and allow them to be pummled nicly in an IRON sandwich. It's happening to me right now and then hopefully we could end this war sooner rather than later .
[/quote]
Sorry not interested in ending this quickly. Your fate is just the beginning and what all Gramlin's nations will face if the war goes on long enough.


[quote name='SynthFG' date='22 April 2010 - 04:54 PM' timestamp='1271969648' post='2271055']
Does your remaining top end have the balls to come out of peace mode and try to finish the job tho, Being as most of them (Bar Matt who despite everything has my utmost respect for his conduct on the field of battle) didn't emerge once in the recent conflict I doubt it
[/quote]

I think the above quote tends to show a common trait among the many younger players in the game. [b]Patience, brothers. Patience.[/b] IRON & DAWN are not going to defeat Gramlins in a week or two of rushed and crazy warfare.

No, the defeat of Gramlins, assuming no other outside alliances become involved will take between 12 - 18 months. That's assuming neither side surrenders to the other. IRON & DAWN control the battlefield. We fight the nations we want to and leave the ones that we are not ready to take on for another day. Once you have control of the battlefield the war is basically won. Now it's just a matter of time.

We have already created a safe zone by hitting and keeping all the Gramlin nations under 40k in war. IRON has had a long war and even her smaller nations need some time to recover so I see no point in subjecting these nations to continued warfare without a break. Let us clear out this bottom tier fully and completely, give everyone a rest and a few good 20 day collections and then raise the bar a little.

I wouldn't want too many Gramlin nations dragged down too quickly one might get overlooked and slip into pm and that just wouldn't do. Once the bottom end have been ZI'd and preferably bill locked we can have one of the lower end IRON PM nations come out and engage 3 Gramlin's nations. After a week of nukes they all will be considerably smaller and we can hit them with another nation and keep them at war and dropping in NS.

The beauty of this plan is there is no need to set three IRON nations on each Gramlin nation. One nation with nukes (especially with a WRC and tech) can quickly drop a Gramlin nation 20kNS or more in a week. So it won’t take us long to clear out up to 50k or 60k. You see we have no need to hit all the Gramlin nations at once. Three at time is plenty to keep us happy.

While we are at war we don't pay reps. So having a dozen nations fighting while over 300 rebuild is not a real hardship for us.

You might be worried about the top strength nations in IRON. Well if they ever get tired of staying in PM they are free to leave and join another alliance. There I assume they could rebuild in peace and gain strength. In fact since everyone seems to be okay with doing tech deals with alliances at war they could send aid to small IRON nations and be sent tech to help them grow. I was thinking that if they did that for a year or 18 months they would be large enough that should they choose to come back to IRON they would be powerful enough to take on the largest Gramlin nations and drag them down to where we could hit them and keep them in anarchy until they surrendered.

So one has to have patience to achieve one's goal. The defeat of Gramlins is all but assured. I'm sure IRON will bring the nations in PM out when the time is right. Doing it now would provide the Gramlins with a small battlefield advantage and why on earth should they do that.

While I'm at it I will also say that I have no problem personally (Can't speak for DAWN or IRON) on nations doing tech deals with Gramlins. They are going to lose it all if the war goes on long enough so the only ones that benefit are the tech sellers. However, as IRON & DAWN engage more and more nations and remove their infra the upper level Gramlin's nations will have to send more and more aid to the bottom end if they want to support them. Thus since your aid slots are limited at some point Gramlins will need to send so much aid to their lower end that they will have no slots left over to do tech deals. So the problem will take care of itself eventually.

Of course Gramlins could abandon their smaller nations and stop sending them aid so they could continue doing tech deals but what kind of alliance would do that? Sorry, I thought we were talking about alliances with honour and integrity, Gramlins might leave their small alliances to fend for themselves. In which case after a few months of being at ZI and with no help in sight and no end to the war in sight I suspect most of these alliances will delete or go POW.

How sure am I that IRON and DAWN will win this war? If neither side surrenders or agrees to a white peace I am positive that 333 nations can win against 59 nations (soon to be less as several are over 20 days inactive and will be deleting). To keep all nations under 40k at war all we need is 8 nations to keep them in anarchy. If you see more that 8 fighting then they are just doing it for fun. So to keep half of Gramlins in anarchy requires about 2.5% of our total nations to be at war. I think we can sustain that for a rather long period of time without even breaking a sweat. Once we get all 59 in anarchy all it will take will be 20 nations and you all know that we will never be required to keep all 59 at anarchy at once. By the time we get to the largest nations they will be lucky to have 20 nations left in their alliance.

We actually consider them more like a bad bunch of rogues then a problem alliance. In fact, to my knowledge, we aren't even interested in talking to Ramirus and we will wait until he comes to us. He must be getting close as I have seen confidential logs where he has discussed the terms he is considering and they pretty much support those that were posted on pastebin recently.

I think he leaked those documents on purpose as he really would like to save face somehow and end this war. But frankly I'm not interested. I've been playing this game for over three years and I have no desire to pay reps to anyone. If the war lasts a year or longer I see two things happening when we defeat Gramlins. A lot of nations that would have paid reps will have moved on to other alliances, some alliances that were owed reps will be no more. Yes I would be surprised to see anyone get reps due from this last war if it takes us 18 months to defeat the Gramlins.

Now we could defeat them quicker if we wanted too, but I see no point. There is and will be no lack of volunteer nations that want to join DAWN or IRON for a week or more to take a crack at Gramlins and to hone their battle skills. I know for a fact that we are suggesting to those that want to join and help out that now is not the time.

This is our war and we control the battlefield, so we will fight at our leisure everyone just needs to have patience this will be settled eventually, there is no need to rush it along.

[dvdcchn]

[quote name='tobbogon' date='22 April 2010 - 07:48 PM' timestamp='1271983687' post='2271354']
You make that sound much worse than it really is. Our members are not banned from reading the OWF, asking government members what is happening, or even looking at some of the threads about the matter. TORN's message did not seem like a "Hey buddy, i just thought you should know..." kind of message. It was a "Hey, your government is full of idiots, and they're going to get your nation destroyed. You should leave asap" kind of message.

Just today NSO told me i should leave because my NS was at sake, so I should leave. Doppleganger told me that Gre has lost 1 million NS in about 2 weeks! Did you guys know it takes 23 days to count to a million? A million is a whole lot, isn't it TOP, MK, IRON? You've all lost a couple of those recently. I dont think anyone got too upset about their NS going away. I dont see why I should either.
[/quote]

yes we have wonderful allies, a big thank you to TORN and NSO as well as everyone else who has shown us support. as do you. do you know how many times i get aqua allainces asking us to surrender, informing me they have been asked by ram to persuade us to surrender. well ram here is your lesson, i heard you are big on teaching lessons, when you are ready to end your arrogance, disrespect, and just plain ignorance, you know where the IRON council stands. we will accept you personally coming to us with your acceptance of white peace ( to honor your codex of no paper) and end hostilities, no questions asked. until then may admin have mercy on your allaince, similar to what we have shown your nations surrendering to us.

[shilo]

[quote name='dvdcchn' date='23 April 2010 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1272049196' post='2272213']
yes we have wonderful allies, a big thank you to TORN and NSO as well as everyone else who has shown us support. as do you. do you know how many times i get aqua allainces asking us to surrender, informing me they have been asked by ram to persuade us to surrender. well ram here is your lesson, i heard you are big on teaching lessons, when you are ready to end your arrogance, disrespect, and just plain ignorance, you know where the IRON council stands. we will accept you personally coming to us with your acceptance of white peace ( to honor your codex of no paper) and end hostilities, no questions asked. until then may admin have mercy on your allaince, similar to what we have shown your nations surrendering to us.
[/quote]
I support this statement, as does the rest of DAWN