The Future of Neo-Hegemony ?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Earogema' date='23 March 2010 - 01:42 PM' timestamp='1269369722' post='2234296']
I still think the name "Neo-Hegemony" is stupid. Call them like, "Fallen-Hegemony," or "Old Guard" or something else (Neither of those are very apt, but something in that vein).
[/quote]

Its all semantics bro, I wouldn't sweat it too much

[Roadie]

[quote name='rrkilledme' date='09 March 2010 - 03:36 PM' timestamp='1268166954' post='2219561']

And, as far as the whole create a rift between SF and C&G thing, sorry I just highly doubt that will happen under the current climate.. granted, who saw Karma's outcome coming?
[/quote]

Most of Hegemony saw it coming in the neighborhood of 6 months ahead of time. It was the reason I came back to Bob.

[Earogema]

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='23 March 2010 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1269370189' post='2234302']
Its all semantics bro, I wouldn't sweat it too much
[/quote]
Well I could always go and call you "The Pacifican Lapdogs extraordinaire!" It's all semantics right? What about, "A terrible group that nobody likes?"

Of course a name based on a definition is all semantics. Just how like a sentence is based on syntax. You can't just type a word, use its definition (incorrectly) and then go "It's all just semantics, I ignore definitions all the time!"

Edited March 23, 2010 by Earogema

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Roadie' date='23 March 2010 - 03:05 PM' timestamp='1269371090' post='2234311']
Most of Hegemony saw it coming in the neighborhood of 6 months ahead of time. It was the reason I came back to Bob.
[/quote]

"Hey guys we're gonna get killed in six months, let's just sit around and wait for it"?

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='23 March 2010 - 04:10 PM' timestamp='1269378641' post='2234425']
"Hey guys we're gonna get killed in six months, let's just sit around and wait for it"?
[/quote]


Ugh, you'd be surprised

/me shakes head

[Cortath]

[quote name='sethb' date='23 March 2010 - 10:31 AM' timestamp='1269354687' post='2234200']
I know as well anybody that more than likely not any Karma alliance outside of our direct allies were actually 'in it' for us, everyone had their own interests in that war, myself included that is pretty indisputable. Yes, I made mistakes over the course of my leadership but I did what I thought was right at the time and have learned from the experience. Now I fail to see what my personal history has to do with the subject at hand, but please carry on..
[/quote]

Sethb, I will continue to attack you, your past, your present, and your future (what there is of it), as long as you continue to make baseless claims about my alliance.

[sethb]

Alrighty lol. Sounds like fun.

[Cortath]

[quote name='sethb' date='23 March 2010 - 08:31 PM' timestamp='1269390694' post='2234636']
Alrighty lol. Sounds like fun.
[/quote]

*chuckles* That's the spirit!

[Doitzel]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' date='23 March 2010 - 05:10 PM' timestamp='1269378641' post='2234425']
"Hey guys we're gonna get killed in six months, let's just sit around and wait for it"?
[/quote]
It was all rather anticlimactic, wasn't it? We threatened to blow up parliament and they left the gates open.

[Lonely]

[quote name='Vladimir' date='24 March 2010 - 03:37 AM' timestamp='1269365837' post='2234257']
To clarify the situation since there seems to be some confusion: Qaianna and Comrade WalkerNinja are correct. Emperor Revenge offered a peace deal to FAN long before the war (exit peace mode for a couple of weeks), and it was a standing offer for the remainder. FAN held a position of 'nothing but white peace'. This was the regrettable impasse that led to war continuing as long as it did.
[/quote]

So wait, since when did Pacifica express regret at the horrendous length of time you spent curbstomping FAN? Oh ho ho. This is the sort of thing you’d never see when Pacifica ruled the world. Back then you justified that sort of crap with statements like ‘we’re not being evil, we’re merely acting in our interests (and how can you expect us to act against our interests?)’

[OOC] Nevermind that the Soviet Union used the same justifications for the imprisonment and mass murder of political dissidents, of course. [/OOC]

[WalkerNinja]

[quote name='The Lonely Man' date='24 March 2010 - 04:49 AM' timestamp='1269424152' post='2235104']
So wait, since when did Pacifica express regret at the horrendous length of time you spent curbstomping FAN? Oh ho ho. This is the sort of thing you’d never see when Pacifica ruled the world. Back then you justified that sort of crap with statements like ‘we’re not being evil, we’re merely acting in our interests (and how can you expect us to act against our interests?)’

[OOC] Nevermind that the Soviet Union used the same justifications for the imprisonment and mass murder of political dissidents, of course. [/OOC]
[/quote]

Since always. If you ever took a moment to ask NPO, no one wanted the stupid war to be over more than they did, but they weren't willing to give plain old vanilla white peace. They wanted 2 weeks of war before they would give white peace. Two weeks. Compared to a year in peace mode.

If MK wanted to be *as bad* as NPO and offer us two more weeks of fighting and white peace after, I daresay we'd take it in a heart beat.

Edited March 24, 2010 by WalkerNinja

[potato]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='24 March 2010 - 12:46 PM' timestamp='1269431197' post='2235156']
Since always. If you ever took a moment to ask NPO, no one wanted the stupid war to be over more than they did, but they weren't willing to give plain old vanilla white peace. They wanted 2 weeks of war before they would give white peace. Two weeks. Compared to a year in peace mode.

If MK wanted to be *as bad* as NPO and offer us two more weeks of fighting and white peace after, I daresay we'd take it in a heart beat.
[/quote]

I don't recall the deal offered by NPO to FAN being "two weeks of FULL war and white peace". But I could be wrong...

Edited March 24, 2010 by potato

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='24 March 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1269431197' post='2235156']
Since always. If you ever took a moment to ask NPO, no one wanted the stupid war to be over more than they did, but they weren't willing to give plain old vanilla white peace. They wanted 2 weeks of war before they would give white peace. Two weeks. Compared to a year in peace mode.

If MK wanted to be *as bad* as NPO and offer us two more weeks of fighting and white peace after, I daresay we'd take it in a heart beat.
[/quote]
Pretty much this. We would have given them peace had they come out of peace mode for that time. But in any case, we've paid for all our sins right?

[OOC]I like how we are compared to the Soviets now. Back in the day we were all Nazi's apparently. Oh how times change.[/OOC]

[potato]

[quote name='WorldConqueror' date='24 March 2010 - 01:05 PM' timestamp='1269432305' post='2235163']
Pretty much this. We would have given them peace had they come out of peace mode for that time. But in any case, we've paid for all our sins right?

[OOC]I like how we are compared to the Soviets now. Back in the day we were all Nazi's apparently. Oh how times change.[/OOC]
[/quote]

Peace or white peace?

[Bob Janova]

[quote name='potato' date='24 March 2010 - 11:53 AM' timestamp='1269431609' post='2235158']
I don't recall the deal offered by NPO to FAN being "two weeks of FULL war and white peace". But I could be wrong...
[/quote]
I'm not going to go back over two years of Atrophis and arguments, but that is what I remember too. Of course, similarly to this situation, that was offered by NPO at a point where they knew FAN would not accept it (during VietFAN II when the trust for NPO to keep its promises was gone) so they could say 'But ... but [i]we offered them peace[/i]!'.

[Doitzel]

[quote name='potato' date='24 March 2010 - 07:53 AM' timestamp='1269431609' post='2235158']
I don't recall the deal offered by NPO to FAN being "two weeks of FULL war and white peace". But I could be wrong...
[/quote]
I am pretty sure it was 2 weeks of war before negotiations would commence, wherein NPO would hand down more ridiculous terms that they could break (or push FAN into breaking) at will. Patented Pacifica diplomacy. That's how FAN got into that war in the first place, after all.

[WalkerNinja]

As one that negotiated with Emperor Revenge on FAN's behalf on multiple occasions: it was two weeks of war (no peace mode) then white peace.

FAN's argument against this was that NPO had already betrayed them once before, and they would not yield for anything less than a full and immediate white peace.

This didn't make much sense to me since if they were worried about more NPO betrayals, NPO could have just as easily betrayed them after a white peace was given. They didn't see it that way.

[Solaris]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='24 March 2010 - 02:58 PM' timestamp='1269435475' post='2235183']
This didn't make much sense to me since if they were worried about more NPO betrayals, NPO could have just as easily betrayed them after a white peace was given. They didn't see it that way.
[/quote]Certainly, but that betrayal would've not been in conditions where all their peace mode nations would had been subjected to two weeks of war, but rather a betrayal for which FAN could better prepare themselves.

[Doitzel]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='24 March 2010 - 08:58 AM' timestamp='1269435475' post='2235183']
As one that negotiated with Emperor Revenge on FAN's behalf on multiple occasions: it was two weeks of war (no peace mode) then white peace.
[/quote]
Considering how things turned out last time your alliance was involved in negotiating with NPO on another alliance's behalf, I'm simply amazed you can say that with a straight face and expect us to take it at face value. Even if by some astounding new feat of naivety that [i]could[/i] be taken at face value, the intent of that term was pretty obviously to exploit FAN's perceived weakness - their pride. FAN was thought to be a threat that had to be kept down, and whether they were curb-stomped for a couple weeks or rotted in peace mode NPO got what it wanted. The idea that forcing them out of peace mode to be bombed into oblivion could come to be called "white peace" at its conclusion is pretty laughable.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Doitzel

[WalkerNinja]

Normally your derision is top-notch, Doitzel. Simple, easily understandable, and biting.

But how WalkerNinja as a neutral party inquiring privately into peace options on FAN's behalf is in any way related to Crymson as GM of TOP publicly arbitrating between NPO and the trap that was laid for them (and which they walked into) is beyond me.

And frankly, FAN was far more threatening as aid thieves and spies than they ever could have been as a resurgent alliance, as Vox Populi quite adequately demonstrated. Pounding on their infra was never a solution.

[Earogema]

To the people saying FAN didn't fight-

You are full of it. Almost every single nation of FAN was engaged (if not all nations of FAN). I fought in the second VietFAN during their first blitz on TORN. Many, MANY FAN nations came out of peace mode.

I think the fact that FAN was around 600 members the first time, down to 200 members, then 200 to 70 is more than enough proof of that.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Earogema

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='WalkerNinja' date='24 March 2010 - 10:58 PM' timestamp='1269435475' post='2235183']
As one that negotiated with Emperor Revenge on FAN's behalf on multiple occasions: it was two weeks of war (no peace mode) then white peace.
[/quote]
This was pretty much common knowledge.

But FAN chose to stay in peace mode rather than swiftly end the war with 2 rounds of war and take moderate damage at most from this then rebuild in peace with no reps to pay.

So they are entirely responsible for the consequences of their decision.

[Qaianna]

In either case, the point I made was that 'But we offered a version of peace!' was not, in and of itself, considered a merciful thing--rather, the peace offer itself needed to be analysed, and many found it wanting as far as being a 'just' thing to do.

And Mr Aros..I don't think anyone here said the Federation never fought.

[p2die]

i can only say the the key AA's are iron, legion and UPN are the only things that connect the big red circle with the rest of cn with out them they would just be merer dots in a circle. the white/yellow circles are so close together that they are merging together witch is why i can see how they won some of the past wars. and pink i could see them coming closer to one of the 2 sides hard to tell

[Letum]

[quote name='The Lonely Man' date='24 March 2010 - 09:49 AM' timestamp='1269424152' post='2235104']
So wait, since when did Pacifica express regret at the horrendous length of time you spent curbstomping FAN? Oh ho ho. This is the sort of thing you’d never see when Pacifica ruled the world. Back then you justified that sort of crap with statements like ‘we’re not being evil, we’re merely acting in our interests (and how can you expect us to act against our interests?)’

[OOC] Nevermind that the Soviet Union used the same justifications for the imprisonment and mass murder of political dissidents, of course. [/OOC]
[/quote]

It is always regretful when the pride of some party gets in the way of both their and our interests. It is also regretful that you are so immature as to make such a blatantly provocative and irrational parallel just to get an implicit little dig. Shame on you.