Unimportant Announcement

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Moridin' date='21 February 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1266811704' post='2196090']
Judging by the fact that white peace (or at least, peace without reparations) was offered earlier, it is clear that the reparations here are not about compensating Sparta for its losses - Sparta almost certainly took more damage from Legion leading up to that point than it has since. So the only conclusion left is that Sparta is punishing Legion for staying in the war, a war they only entered out of loyalty to their allies. It is disheartening then to see that Sparta finds loyalty to one's allies something worthy of punishment. For shame.
[/quote]Yes, it's clear that we don't like seeing our own generosity thrown back in our faces.


[quote name='kulomascovia' date='21 February 2010 - 11:11 PM' timestamp='1266811869' post='2196095']
I would hope that this payment of 40,000 tech would teach the leaders of Legion not to support their allies for such an extended period of time in a losing war.
[/quote]Yes, it's clear that we do not support Legion's attacks on us, since ya know, we were defending our allies from an aggressive strike.

The moral outrage...

[Ivan Moldavi]

Ultimately, The Legion could have said no. Complaining that Sparta et al did something bad by demanding and getting reps doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You don't have to agree with the reps themselves but it is up to The Legion whether or not it was worth it. Evidently it was.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' date='21 February 2010 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1266812047' post='2196109']
We did not take 40k tech. We took half of that. Honestly, I very much doubt you would be so vocal had you not have a personal connection to one of the alliances attached to this announcement. That's fine, most people still hold a fondness for their former alliance. Perhaps you would be so outraged had it been an alliance completely unrelated to you. Either way, I'd appreciate you get your facts right next time.

To address some others in here, I personally don't mind taking absorbing hard feelings from you if it's for our allies but I do find it amusing that we are usually the only target, no matter the situation, when our name is in an announcement (sort of like if no one else was involved).
[/quote]

You've got to be kidding me. I have EASILY been the most vocal anti-Legion person on these forums for the better part of two years now. Would you like to try again?

[logan1]

[quote name='Bernkastel' date='21 February 2010 - 11:08 PM' timestamp='1266811701' post='2196089']
The only ones "doin it rite" is the ones who did not ask for reps. The rest are taking severe PR hits. Ones that they don't need. At all.
[/quote]

just because past haters are hating as usual does not mean we are taking a pr hit.

if AAs i cared about were trashing us id be concerned, but its the usual suspects so it was expected and we would be sad if we were not important enough for you guys to whine?

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='21 February 2010 - 08:16 PM' timestamp='1266812167' post='2196121']
Ultimately, The Legion could have said no. Complaining that Sparta et al did something bad by demanding and getting reps doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You don't have to agree with the reps themselves but it is up to The Legion whether or not it was worth it. Evidently it was.
[/quote]

The alternative was getting pounded further into the ground.

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='kulomascovia' date='21 February 2010 - 09:11 PM' timestamp='1266811869' post='2196095']
I would hope that this payment of 40,000 tech would teach the leaders of Legion not to support their allies for such an extended period of time in a losing war.
[/quote]
Legion attacked Sparta, Legion is surrendering. If Legion had won the war they set out to win, then maybe white peace could have been achieved. My personal opinion is that those who declare war on us should be given an lesson to not attempt to hurt my fellow Spartans in the future.

Good fight Legion; i fought a couple good wars with you, and i admire the effort put forth from your propaganda team as well. You won't see me anymore in this thread. ;-)

Edited February 22, 2010 by Seth Muscarella

[kulomascovia]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='21 February 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1266812062' post='2196112']
Less to do with support and more to do with general idiocy and shenanigans from Legion me thinks.
[/quote]

Legion gets reps for some misunderstandings? That's even better.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='pezstar' date='22 February 2010 - 04:15 AM' timestamp='1266812108' post='2196114']
So... because an alliance you're at war with talked smack to you during the war, you decided to give them ridiculous reps? Well, at least we all know the price of Sparta's dignity is 40,000 tech.
[/quote]
my query offer is still open.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='21 February 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1266812224' post='2196127']
The alternative was getting pounded further into the ground.
[/quote]
I fail to see your point.

It still doesn't matter what any of the rest of us think about the terms. Legion accepted them. It was their choice to do so. The blame, if blame is needed, goes both ways. Legion could have said no and continued to fight. They didn't, therefore they decided that the terms were sufficiently "fair" to them. I may have thought differently if I were in their shoes but I am not, so it isn't my place to state how horrible either party is in the given circumstance.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Ivan Moldavi

[Ejayrazz]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='21 February 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1266812167' post='2196121']
Ultimately, The Legion could have said no. Complaining that Sparta et al did something bad by demanding and getting reps doesn't make a lot of sense to me. You don't have to agree with the reps themselves but it is up to The Legion whether or not it was worth it. Evidently it was.
[/quote]
Not agreeing with the complainers, but not agreeing with this. Last thing we need is old NPO stupefied rhetoric, because appliance only goes so far when people begin abusing it and using former-logical reasonings not applicable within the given situation(s).

Edited February 22, 2010 by Ejayrazz

[Kortal]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' date='21 February 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1266812008' post='2196106']
I find myself agreeing with pezstar again...I'll not comment further, save to say when members of STA and Valhalla agree on anything involving politics, it bears paying attention.

Good luck rebuilding, Legion.
[/quote]
I wholeheartedly agree. When you see Pezstar and ChairmanHal espousing the same views, [i]pay attention[/i]

fake edit: This could be too subtle. I AM IMPLYING THAT THEY ARE BOTH DUMB, OK?

[Matthew Conrad]

[quote name='pezstar' date='21 February 2010 - 11:16 PM' timestamp='1266812199' post='2196124']
You've got to be kidding me. I have EASILY been the most vocal anti-Legion person on these forums for the better part of two years now. Would you like to try again?
[/quote]

I'm not one to follow your posting much so I assume you're correct. Like I said, I said I may be wrong but drawing connections where they are makes on sense. Either one, you forgot to address my other point. You keep preaching we took twice the reps we took. I'd like to see you address your mistake.

[Jrenster]

The reps being paid are simply ludicrous. Total, it's about $112 billion (my math may be off). Punishing them this harshly just for trying to be loyal is simply outrageous.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='21 February 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1266812279' post='2196131']
I fail to see your point.
[/quote]

Some alliances occasionally consider alternatives to having every member ZIed. Weird, I know.

[Mussolandia]

[quote name='Ejayrazz' date='22 February 2010 - 04:18 AM' timestamp='1266812314' post='2196132']
Not agreeing with the complainers, but not agreeing with this. Last thing we need is old NPO stupefied rhetoric, because appliance only goes so far when people begin abusing it and using former-logical reasonings not applicable within the given situation(s).
[/quote]

He's just pointing out the risk/reward situation. Our alliance has never demanded war reparations.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='21 February 2010 - 08:17 PM' timestamp='1266812279' post='2196131']
I fail to see your point.
[/quote]

I'll rephrase it. The alternative was losing much more then is being asked of them and taking a much longer time to rebuild when they did get peace.

[pezstar]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' date='21 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1266812363' post='2196136']
I'm not one to follow your posting much so I assume you're correct. Like I said, I said I may be wrong but drawing connections where they are makes on sense. Either one, you forgot to address my other point. You keep preaching we took twice the reps we took. I'd like to see you address your mistake.
[/quote]

My mistake. The price of Sparta's dignity isn't 40,000 tech. It's 20,000 tech.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='pezstar' date='22 February 2010 - 04:15 AM' timestamp='1266812108' post='2196114']
So... because an alliance you're at war with talked smack to you during the war, you decided to give them ridiculous reps? Well, at least we all know the price of Sparta's dignity is 40,000 tech.
[/quote]

. The ridiculous reps came from agreeing to surrender then not agreeing to surrender and making SPARTA -who should not have posted the thread until they got a final verdict w. sigs- look like fools. This is not surprising for an enemy who obviously had no respect for them and snubbed their noses at every turn.

Edited February 22, 2010 by tamerlane

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='21 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1266812379' post='2196138']
The reps being paid are simply ludicrous. Total, it's about $112 billion (my math may be off). Punishing them this harshly just for trying to be loyal is simply outrageous.
[/quote]

Not sure where you got that. The slot usage is equal to $2.4 billion.

[Proko]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' date='21 February 2010 - 11:14 PM' timestamp='1266812047' post='2196109']
We did not take 40k tech. We took half of that. Honestly, I very much doubt you would be so vocal had you not have a personal connection to one of the alliances attached to this announcement. That's fine, most people still hold a fondness for their former alliance. Perhaps you would be so outraged had it been an alliance completely unrelated to you. Either way, I'd appreciate you get your facts right next time.

To address some others in here, I personally don't mind taking absorbing hard feelings from you if it's for our allies but I do find it amusing that we are usually the only target, no matter the situation, when our name is in an announcement (sort of like if no one else was involved).
[/quote]

I don't have a personal connection to the alliances attached to this announcement, and I still think this announcement and decision are stupid.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='21 February 2010 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1266812430' post='2196142']
I'll rephrase it. The alternative was losing much more then is being asked of them and taking a much longer time to rebuild when they did get peace.
[/quote]
I see your point.

We are definitely too cruel to have given them an easy alternative to getting pounded in to the ground.

Please keep in mind that white peace was on the table, and they threw it out the window.

[Moridin]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' date='21 February 2010 - 08:14 PM' timestamp='1266812047' post='2196109']
We did not take 40k tech. We took half of that. Honestly, I very much doubt you would be so vocal had you not have a personal connection to one of the alliances attached to this announcement. That's fine, most people still hold a fondness for their former alliance. Perhaps you would be so outraged had it been an alliance completely unrelated to you. Either way, I'd appreciate you get your facts right next time.[/quote]

While Pezstar may have a former connection to the Legion, there are others in this thread that are similarly vocal that have no connection to Legion. Don't be so quick to dismiss criticism just because of what you judge the motive is behind it.

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='22 February 2010 - 04:19 AM' timestamp='1266812379' post='2196138']
The reps being paid are simply ludicrous. Total, it's about $112 billion (my math may be off). Punishing them this harshly just for trying to be loyal is simply outrageous.
[/quote]
your math is off. In tech it's about 2.4 billion.

[Gopherbashi]

[quote name='Jrenster' date='21 February 2010 - 11:19 PM' timestamp='1266812379' post='2196138']
The reps being paid are simply ludicrous. Total, it's about $112 billion (my math may be off). Punishing them this harshly just for trying to be loyal is simply outrageous.
[/quote]
I believe it works out to $1.2b (at $3m/100t), but I do agree with you in that the specific amount of reparations could be described as overkill.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Gopherbashi

[Gunnar Griffin]

If the logs changed so many opinions by the way. Can I see them? No one showed them in the other thread when people repeatedly asked for them; yet you're showing them through PMs to people now. I'd like to see the logs in the open; if they are such a mind-changer.

Edited February 22, 2010 by Gunnar Griffin