Joint Statement

[avernite]

Considering that both Archon (in public) and Arsenal (in private) have admitted C&G has not achieved victory anymore than we have, it stands to reason that white peace is the most logical solution.

Given that said offer is rejected, we are looking into our options; exact numbers are no more forthcoming from us than they are from the other side. At least we actually have an offer on the table.

[joracy]

[quote name='Hydro' date='18 February 2010 - 04:00 PM' timestamp='1266526852' post='2190172']
Since when is white peace the same thing as surrender? 
[/quote]

If it has terms, it's not white peace, etc etc lets not play this silly semantical argument. This thread offers any alliance currently fighting on our side individual peace if they agree not to reenter the war.

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='Saber' date='18 February 2010 - 03:35 PM' timestamp='1266525324' post='2190129']
This is a genuine offer of peace, which will remain open throughout the conflict and which bounds all of our alliances to NOT push down terms on opposing alliances in any circumstances.
[/quote]
This is a genuine rejection of your offer of peace, which will remain rejected throughout the conflict and which bounds all of our alliances (at least C&G I won't speak for others) to push down terms on all aggressively opposing alliances in any circumstances.

maybe?

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='avernite' date='18 February 2010 - 09:14 PM' timestamp='1266527675' post='2190196']
Considering that both Archon (in public) and Arsenal (in private) have admitted C&G has not achieved victory anymore than we have, it stands to reason that white peace is the most logical solution.

Given that said offer is rejected, we are looking into our options; exact numbers are no more forthcoming from us than they are from the other side. At least we actually have an offer on the table.
[/quote]

Thanks for the reply avernite.

[Saber]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='18 February 2010 - 10:08 PM' timestamp='1266527287' post='2190185']
So in this thread we have established that TOP/RON wont get white peace. That arguement aside, the posts above hit on a good point, other than something thats not going to happen ie white peace what do Top/Ron deem as acceptable terms? You must realise by now that you wont get white peace, so your either willing to fight on until you all reach ZI and your treaty partners reach decimation, Or your willing to accept terms (reps) if its the later, what is acceptable in your eyes for you to surrender?
[/quote]
How am I supposed to know that? I am not supreme overlord of TOP (although TOPers, you can always make me ), and I really cannot know what we would find acceptable. However if offers of global peace are put on the table we will be able to find out.

Am I supposed to make a 10 hypothetical offers so Heptagon can vote on them so I can answer you here?

EDIT: Apologies if it sounded hostile but really we can't know until it happens. But my previous statement that it would have to be global peace stands.

TOP will not abandon anyone.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Saber

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='avernite' date='18 February 2010 - 04:14 PM' timestamp='1266527675' post='2190196']
Considering that both Archon (in public) and Arsenal (in private) have admitted C&G has not achieved victory anymore than we have, it stands to reason that white peace is the most logical solution.

Given that said offer is rejected, we are looking into our options; exact numbers are no more forthcoming from us than they are from the other side. At least we actually have an offer on the table.
[/quote]
I believe you've had an offer of white peace on the table since about 20 minutes after you attacked and NpO peaced with \m/.

To clarify, that was you offering us white peace, not us offering you white peace*

Edited February 18, 2010 by rsoxbronco1

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Saber' date='18 February 2010 - 09:19 PM' timestamp='1266527965' post='2190208']
How am I supposed to know that? I am not supreme overlord of TOP (although TOPers, you can always make me ), and I really cannot know what we would find acceptable. However if offers of global peace are put on the table we will be able to find out.

Am I supposed to make a 10 hypothetical offers so Heptagon can vote on them so I can answer you here?
[/quote]

Defensive sir, your far to defensive. Maybe your alliance leader might know? Maybe I was making that statement in the vain chance that your Government might have input on this thread? I don't think I was being offensive. Thanks for the sarcasm though. I'm not fighting TOP directly, whether you guys get smashed and hammered for reps really makes no difference to me. I was just curious that maybe your Government might have discussed such things. and have a rough number Tech/Money in mind.

You know you could have just said " I don't know I'm not government" instead of trying to look cool with the response you gave. hey ho, matters not.

[Saber]

[quote name='SonOfHoward' date='18 February 2010 - 10:06 PM' timestamp='1266527218' post='2190184']
I hope this is sincere for if it is I applaud you for taking this stance since I for one don't agree with reps period. However; if this some sort of trick for PR, or to allow you to rebuild so you can force reps back onto others in the event the tables are turned shame on you!

I encourage all leaders to take this seriously and talk it out.(Or hug it out whicever)

[img]http://images1.makefive.com/images/200840/549601ba133c661d.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
It's a genuine statement and offer.

Regardless of any changes to strategic situation undersigned alliance will not enforce any terms on the opposing alliance. This means even if the war suddenly took an unexpected turn and we had 2:1 or even bigger advantage we would still accept white peace on all fronts with all alliances.

No one needs to surrender separately even on your side. Instead if you find this war unnecessary and wish it to end put pressure on alliance on your side and leaders on your side to find a way to end this war. Instead of blaming it on other side, make genuine attempts to end this madness. We have done that.

[janax]

[quote name='joracy' date='18 February 2010 - 03:15 PM' timestamp='1266527705' post='2190197']
If it has terms, it's not white peace, etc etc lets not play this silly semantical argument. This thread offers any alliance currently fighting on our side individual peace if they agree not to reenter the war.
[/quote]

terms such as not re-entering the war doesn't make it surrender either.

surrender is not the same as white peace, which is not the same as off-white peace

[Crymson]

[quote name='Aeternos Astramora' date='18 February 2010 - 01:26 PM' timestamp='1266524798' post='2190120']
Il Impero Romano still appears to be bashing this announcement [i]despite the fact that a few small alliances on his side of the war have accepted these exact terms[/i].
[/quote]

Ah, yes---good old Impero, the fellow who did everything he could to prevent any agreement between OV and NPO before the Karma War, and then was probably one of those who acted to torpedo it behind the scenes.

His intentions have always been good.... errr.... no, not really.

[Steve Buscemi]

The sheer amount of bawing coming from Saber and Avernite in this thread is very disappointing. Act like the knights you claim to be.

Whether NpO started the war or TOP/IRON started a separate war, [b]your coalition is still the aggressor[/b]. To talk about white peace being fair is an insult to everyone's intelligence. You started this war and should justly pay damages for the unnecessary destruction you caused.

Please, please just stop making yourselves look foolish. You are dragging TOP's name through the mud and no member or ex-member can be proud of what you are turning TOP into.

edit:
[quote name='Crymson' date='18 February 2010 - 03:29 PM' timestamp='1266528544' post='2190230']
Ah, yes---good old Impero, the fellow who did everything he could to prevent any agreement between OV and NPO before the Karma War, and then was probably one of those who acted to torpedo it behind the scenes.

His intentions have always been good.... errr.... no, not really.
[/quote]
The irony of this statement is astounding.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Steve Buscemi

[skokie]

noob question... is this the first time TOP has been on the losing end of a war?

[Saber]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='18 February 2010 - 10:26 PM' timestamp='1266528416' post='2190222']
Defensive sir, your far to defensive. Maybe your alliance leader might know? Maybe I was making that statement in the vain chance that your Government might have input on this thread? I don't think I was being offensive. Thanks for the sarcasm though. I'm not fighting TOP directly, whether you guys get smashed and hammered for reps really makes no difference to me. I was just curious that maybe your Government might have discussed such things. and have a rough number Tech/Money in mind.

You know you could have just said " I don't know I'm not government" instead of trying to look cool with the response you gave. hey ho, matters not.
[/quote]
I'm Grand Chancellor (MoFA).

Sorry if it sounded hostile but I really don't know.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Saber' date='18 February 2010 - 09:31 PM' timestamp='1266528681' post='2190239']
I'm Grand Chancellor (MoFA).

Sorry if it sounded hostile but I really don't know.
[/quote]

No problems, I was just interested is all, i wasn't trying to have a dig at you contrary to what ppl may think I like you guys even though were on the opposite sides.

[tobiash]

[quote name='flak attack' date='18 February 2010 - 08:23 PM' timestamp='1266521034' post='2190031']
We have not said TOP and IRON won't be given peace for a long time. We have said they won't be given white peace. When IRON and TOP are willing to bite the bullet and accept terms, then we're willing to talk peace.
[/quote]

How can they bite the bullet when you have not been willing to offer any terms?

[SonOfHoward]

[quote name='Crymson' date='18 February 2010 - 01:29 PM' timestamp='1266528544' post='2190230']
Ah, yes---good old Impero, the fellow who did everything he could to prevent any agreement between OV and NPO before the Karma War, and then was probably one of those who acted to torpedo it behind the scenes.

His intentions have always been good.... errr.... no, not really.
[/quote]

According to public records it can be gleaned that behind the scenes Moo was telling TORN to sharpen their blades and prepare to attack imminently. Impero was pretty much front and center. Unless you have some new information you care to share with us. 

[Fallen Fool]

I'll never understand why people nowadays seem to think that "OMG WHITE PEACE" is how every war has to end.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Fallen_Fool

[mitchh]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='18 February 2010 - 03:26 PM' timestamp='1266528416' post='2190222']
Defensive sir, your far to defensive. Maybe your alliance leader might know? Maybe I was making that statement in the vain chance that your Government might have input on this thread? I don't think I was being offensive. Thanks for the sarcasm though. I'm not fighting TOP directly, whether you guys get smashed and hammered for reps really makes no difference to me. I was just curious that maybe your Government might have discussed such things. and have a rough number Tech/Money in mind.

You know you could have just said " I don't know I'm not government" instead of trying to look cool with the response you gave. hey ho, matters not.
[/quote]
Saber is in TOP government. Any votes on peace agreements falls to the Heptagon, of which he is not a part. What he meant was that he cannot know what terms TOP would find agreeable, as we haven't been offered even a ballpark, so he would have to be making arbitrary motions to the Heptagon to get an idea.

[Bob Janova]

[quote]Whether NpO started the war or TOP/IRON started a separate war, your coalition is still the aggressor. To talk about white peace being fair is an insult to everyone's intelligence.[/quote]
... except that it was fair for everyone else in the coalition

[quote]I believe you've had an offer of white peace on the table since about 20 minutes after you attacked and NpO peaced with \m/.[/quote]
Thanks for contradicting whichever C&Ger it was in the other thread who said that TOP was unlikely to have an interest in letting C&G have white peace when they first engaged

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='mitchh' date='18 February 2010 - 09:37 PM' timestamp='1266529022' post='2190255']
Saber is in TOP government. Any votes on peace agreements falls to the Heptagon, of which he is not a part. What he meant was that he cannot know what terms TOP would find agreeable, as we haven't been offered even a ballpark, so he would have to be making arbitrary motions to the Heptagon to get an idea.
[/quote]


Cool thanks for explaining to me, I was just curious if you guys had discussed it. No offence intended towards you guys.

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='skokie' date='18 February 2010 - 03:30 PM' timestamp='1266528649' post='2190237']
noob question... is this the first time TOP has been on the losing end of a war?
[/quote]
Yes it is. And they are struggling to find their way. Egos aren't always conducive to admitting defeat.

[Andre27]

[quote name='ironchef' date='18 February 2010 - 08:56 AM' timestamp='1266479802' post='2189283']
I can think of some that have been given whitish peace after coming in to this war on an oA. GGA was one of them as they came into this for IRON who they have a none chaining MDoAP with. Are you saying now that this has changed and any alliance with an oA treaty will be offered different terms than what MHA gave them? Then again we are talking ODN and not all alliance can have the level of honor MHA has.




So are you saying you consider some of the alliance at war in defense of their allies to be irrelevant alliances on your side of things? I know we count all our allies as relevant alliances and appreciate all they have given.
Looks like the meat shield mentality is strong in this one.
[/quote]

Nice try IC, but the GGA entered through our defensive clause not through a oA.

Having read through 5 out of a total 20 pages it seems clear that the C&G side does not want to give white peace which is disappointing because most of these alliances fought in Karma against "beatdown politics" and punishing reps. Now that they have a chance to do things different than the "Hegemony" they drop the ball.

Petty grievances take president again over principles. And so the circle continues...

[mitchh]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' date='18 February 2010 - 03:38 PM' timestamp='1266529120' post='2190258']
Cool thanks for explaining to me, I was just curious if you guys had discussed it. No offence intended towards you guys.
[/quote]
None taken.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='andre27' date='18 February 2010 - 04:39 PM' timestamp='1266529150' post='2190262']
Nice try IC, but the GGA entered through our defensive clause not through a oA.

Having read through 5 out of a total 20 pages it seems clear that the C&G side does not want to give white peace which is disappointing because most of these alliances fought in Karma against "beatdown politics" and punishing reps. Now that they have a chance to do things different than the "Hegemony" they drop the ball.

Petty grievances take president again over principles. And so the circle continues...
[/quote]
It's funny that you claim to know what Karma was about when you opposed it.

[Yevgeni Luchenkov]

[quote]The sheer amount of bawing coming from Saber and Avernite in this thread is very disappointing. Act like the knights you claim to be.

Whether NpO started the war or TOP/IRON started a separate war, your coalition is still the aggressor. To talk about white peace being fair is an insult to everyone's intelligence. You started this war and should justly pay damages for the unnecessary destruction you caused.

Please, please just stop making yourselves look foolish. You are dragging TOP's name through the mud and no member or ex-member can be proud of what you are turning TOP into.[/quote]
Steve, TOP could send ten billions to all alliances on Planet Bob, as a gift, and you would still call it bribery. Quit it with the hypocrisy, you hate us and have always worked to undermine our alliance.

As for the rest, people should keep in mind that the main alliances of this conflict are already down 50% in NS, or close.