Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

Ivan, could you answer my question, please?

[heggo]

[quote name='Tolkien' date='02 February 2010 - 12:39 AM' timestamp='1265092756' post='2152556']
@ Ivan: correct me if I am wrong, but from what I heard, you were offered (or in the process of being offered) white peace by SF. That's what I've been hearing, anyway. Can you confirm or deny.
[/quote]
If there was a white peace plan, FARK sure wasn't in on it.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='02 February 2010 - 01:40 AM' timestamp='1265092803' post='2152561']
No, I didn't. I counter declared on an alliance that had already declared and was attacking me. The number of wars didn't change. It was a matter of semantics to appease the e-lawyers because in order to secure peace for my allies that came to our aid I had to assure that they would not re-enter.

This has been discussed. It isn't hard to understand. Fabricating the situation so that the war wasn't already ongoing prior to my declaration is ignorant.
[/quote]
Well, Ivan, since you seem to generally have a level of discourse above the average, I'd like to hear your answer to the objection I raised earlier. I'll quote it for you so you don't have to go back:
[quote name='NoFish' date='02 February 2010 - 01:24 AM' timestamp='1265091875' post='2152494']
So, wait, let me get this straight. In an effort to try to get [b]Fark[/b] to peace out with NSO you decided to attack GOD, an alliance that was already willing to give white peace to NSO.

Does that make [b]any[/b] kind of sense to [b]anyone[/b]?
[/quote]

[Bob]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' date='02 February 2010 - 01:20 AM' timestamp='1265091646' post='2152478']
The alignment of CnG versus TOP/IRON and Co. would have happened regardless. Effectively, TOP/IRON and Co. decided to attempt to gain a tactical advantage. In doing so, CnG beleived, falsely of course, that we would come to their aid despite the grand amount of trolling we have received for stading for our values. Even though the treaty still exist, I dare say that the spirit of that treaty has long since faded away.
[/quote]
It is completely unfortunate that you disregard us as allies. I hope we can fix these relations, regardless of what may be said by both sides.

I would like to inform you that CnG is not one, but two treaties you hold. While MK may have posted in opposition at times, GR has done what exactly?

Edited February 2, 2010 by Penlugue Solaris

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

[quote name='heggo' date='02 February 2010 - 01:43 AM' timestamp='1265092999' post='2152572']
If there was a white peace plan, FARK sure wasn't in on it.
[/quote]
From what I've heard, there were simply no FARK government members online at the time.

Again, it's what I've heard, and I would like a response from someone intimately involved in the process.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='Tolkien' date='02 February 2010 - 01:39 AM' timestamp='1265092756' post='2152556']
@ Ivan: correct me if I am wrong, but from what I heard, you were offered (or in the process of being offered) white peace by SF. That's what I've been hearing, anyway. Can you confirm or deny.
[/quote]
No. I spoke to Randomly and was told I would not get peace. Heft spoke to Randomly later that same day and was told that he had not even talked to me, which is just weird. Peace was coordinated with GOD and GO for our allies in Terra Cotta but Fark did not accept peace with us so we were obligated to continue the war.

If Fark offered peace they didn't tell anyone in NSO government.

[Seerow]

[quote name='Tolkien' date='02 February 2010 - 01:43 AM' timestamp='1265092999' post='2152571']
Ivan, could you answer my question, please?
[/quote]

He did. And I'm pretty sure it's about the 4th time he's posted the explanation in this thread, let alone the times he explained it elsewhere.

[Il Impero Romano]

Understandable, but very unfortunate.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Il Impero Romano

[Earogema]

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='02 February 2010 - 12:42 AM' timestamp='1265092934' post='2152567']
You are not counting diplomacy/expected entrances...see that is where you fail. When I left TOP, I expected them to stay out due to Umbrella. I actually was wanting them to.



One more time..try again.
[/quote]
And you aren't counting on us not expecting FOK's entry as well as the fact that the peace terms were just "follow your own charter."

Polaris was in no position to "lose" anything.

However this is quite silly. I will repeat my actual point again, as I do have at least half a brain, and this is why it is my point: Unless I see concrete evidence of C&G's supposed entry, I have no reason to believe it. Either TOP/IRON needs to get better spies, or just shut up and admit it was paranoia.

[Tick1]

[quote name='DogeWilliam' date='02 February 2010 - 06:41 AM' timestamp='1265092913' post='2152566']
Good point. Both Poison Clan and \m/ ballooned in score when war broke out primarily due to SF and C&G nations freely leaving their alliances and joining on the \m/ side. Guess what, they are basically all back in their old alliances now. I don't see why NpO should be expected to be a friend of that side.

Also, I would like to add an o/ Polaris! Say what you want about TOP/IRON/NSO and co's entry into the war. But our membership truly agreed and believed in NpO's mission against alliances like \m/ and we are truly glad to see you won't allow the fight to be over until the fat lady sings.
[/quote]

Last I checked FoB's NS hasn't ballooned back up. Please let me use this as a datum, but if all the nations that left CnG to join the fight for something they believe in why is FoB's nation strength still lower than it was prior to the war? My application has been accepted in PC and I plan to remain here for time to be until I see something else worth fighting for. It's nothing against NpO, it's against their ideas. My opinions are not of CnG's which is why the members in FoB left to join up with our comrades in PC to fight for our own beliefs. If CnG was going to join the war on their own accord I believe I'd still be in FoB. Clearly you can see this is not the case and I therefor refute your logical idea.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

[quote name='Seerow' date='02 February 2010 - 01:45 AM' timestamp='1265093154' post='2152580']
He did. And I'm pretty sure it's about the 4th time he's posted the explanation in this thread, let alone the times he explained it elsewhere.
[/quote]
Sorry, I haven't been paying attention elsewhere. >_>

[brokenhead]

[quote name='Chickenzilla' date='02 February 2010 - 12:41 AM' timestamp='1265092869' post='2152563']

This saddens me. I was a member of GR and MK, and I still feel deep affection for Polaris.
[/quote]

I think it's safe to say we're all conflicted.

[Aurion]

[quote name='brokenhead' date='02 February 2010 - 01:37 AM' timestamp='1265092652' post='2152549']
And we hate you.
[/quote]

It's so nice when people state the obvious as though it's some great revelation.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Aurion

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='D34th' date='02 February 2010 - 01:09 AM' timestamp='1265090998' post='2152441']
Ready to apologize? I think we had prove you wrong.
[/quote]
I apologized to Grub in PM already, but I'm sorry I doubted you guys. I'm glad to be proven wrong and hopefully no hard feelings.

Now lets win this war, Onward to Victory!

[Ardus]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' date='02 February 2010 - 01:28 AM' timestamp='1265092109' post='2152508']
Up until very recently, I held Mushroom Kingdom in very high regard among our friends and allies, and was happy to maintain the illusion that MK was different than the general CnG group. However after seeing the vehement hatred that has been put forth in the past weeks by its members, and then the complete retraction and applaudations that we received for aparently pulling off the trick of the year, I can honestly say that as a matter of opinion, I have lost all respect for MK.
[/quote]
Polaris first launched a war that left CnG, and the Mushroom Kingdom specifically, in a horribly complex position and open to attack by hostile parties despite pleas to not do so. The "vehement hatred" should have been expected, especially when the eleventh hour peace negotiations fell through. Those hostile parties did attack, though in a manner that shot themselves in the foot as they did so. When Polaris withdrew upon that assault it appeared that perhaps Polaris hadn't forgotten us after all and was, when push came to shove, willing to put some things aside to defend us against an opportunistic attack by TOP & IRON. We took on our enemies with vigor and the confidence that close friends once set apart would no longer be so. The idea led to fervent celebration of Polar by some and reservation by others. I will admit to immediate jubilation followed by suspicion. We didn't simply cheer you for "pulling off the trick of the year".

The fact of the matter is that while we may rage and moan and cheer quickly like a pendulum as you move about this war, the Mushroom Kingdom has never backstabbed you. We haven't declared open war on your allies. We haven't worked to put ourselves in a coalition opposite you, despite my personal satisfaction in seeing it happen (and which those of you from the embassy are well aware of). You choose to be aligned with those who have. And you can state your friendship with the Sith as justification, but the option of a just and reasonable neutrality was there, a strong ally at the ready to rebuild and assist their allies as they deemed fit at the conclusion of hostilities. Instead you chose one over many. Your promotion of white peace is admirable, though I feel misguided. It's kind of hard to close Pandora's Box when it's been opened.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Lafayette

[sacramento]

Come on people, stop playing dumb. Everyone and their mommas knew Gramlins was joining against Polar. Connecting the dots is not that hard ...

[Budlight]

[quote name='D34th' date='02 February 2010 - 12:45 AM' timestamp='1265089547' post='2152341']
Is funny how people are easy to change their opinion here, they go from love to hate and vice-versa in light speed. That's funny.
[/quote]


Some of us were reasonable enough to withhold judgment against Polaris, and I think those of us who weren't are feeling a bit foolish right now.

[Bower3aj]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='02 February 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1265090452' post='2152404']
What about fighting along side your C&G allies who you just slapped in the face?

Would it be unnecessary, disrespectful, and downright dumb of me to wonder why you felt the need to leave them in the dust?
[/quote]

I'm getting in here a little late. but my bet as to why they aren't fighting along side their C&G allies is because they weren't leaving them in the dust as you suggest. Before Polaris joined in the C&G side had over a 2:1 advantage in this war. They didn't need the help.

[Hydro]

really late and this is what you get ...ignore me

Edited February 2, 2010 by Hydro

[NLights]

As I've said elsewhere: my sympathies for the situations you've found yourselves recently Polaris.

This is a tough situation for everyone but I would be lying if I said I wasn't happy to see this; good luck in your wars NpO & have fun

[Marty McFly]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='01 February 2010 - 10:29 PM' timestamp='1265092156' post='2152514']
You know, since it seems to be so much concern that Polar has attacked an ally of an ally or some such nonsense perhaps if the offended parties had spoken to their ally when they attacked an ally of Polar and settled this reasonably a few days ago this wouldn't be happening.
[/quote]

The problem occurred much earlier than NSO's entrance, if a certain ally of our ally hadn't attacked us then there wouldn't be a mess. I guess some people get less flak for doing the same deed.

[Ivan Moldavi]

[quote name='NoFish' date='02 February 2010 - 01:43 AM' timestamp='1265093026' post='2152573']
Well, Ivan, since you seem to generally have a level of discourse above the average, I'd like to hear your answer to the objection I raised earlier. I'll quote it for you so you don't have to go back:
[/quote]
GOD only entered because Fark declared on NSO. Perhaps if GOD is beaten down a bit they will appeal to their allies in Fark to reconsider peace with NSO, since peace between GOD and NSO was dependent on them to begin with. That is all I've got.

[deSouza]

[quote name='Lafayette' date='02 February 2010 - 03:49 AM' timestamp='1265093344' post='2152591']
Polaris first launched a war that left CnG, and the Mushroom Kingdom specifically, in a horribly complex position and open to attack by hostile parties despite pleas to not do so. The "vehement hatred" should have been expected, especially when the eleventh hour peace negotiations fell through. Those hostile parties did attack, though in a manner that shot themselves in the foot as they did so. When Polaris withdrew upon that assault it appeared that perhaps Polaris hadn't forgotten us after all and was, when push came to shove, willing to put some things aside to defend us against an opportunistic attack by TOP & IRON. We took on our enemies with vigor and the confidence that close friends once set apart would no longer be so. The idea led to fervent celebration of Polar by some and reservation by others. I will admit to immediate jubilation followed by suspicion. We didn't simply cheer you for "pulling off the trick of the year".

The fact of the matter is that while we may rage and moan and cheer quickly like a pendulum as you move about this war, the Mushroom Kingdom has never backstabbed you. We haven't declared open war on your allies. We haven't worked to put ourselves in a coalition opposite you, despite my personal satisfaction in seeing it happen (and which those of you from the embassy are well aware of). You choose to be aligned with those who have. And you can state your friendship with the Sith as justification, but the option of a just and reasonable neutrality was there, a strong ally at the ready to rebuild and assist their allies as they deemed fit at the conclusion of hostilities. Instead you chose one over many. Your promotion of white peace is admirable, though I feel misguided. It's kind of hard to close Pandora's Box when it's been opened.
[/quote]

Sad to see Archon is not a god emperor who won planet bob through a genious secret arrangement, are we?

Edited February 2, 2010 by deSouza

[Bob]

[quote name='brokenhead' date='02 February 2010 - 01:48 AM' timestamp='1265093290' post='2152587']
I think it's safe to say we're all conflicted.
[/quote]
Perfect. Right here. This man I can agree with.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='02 February 2010 - 01:51 AM' timestamp='1265093476' post='2152600']
GOD only entered because Fark declared on NSO. Perhaps if GOD is beaten down a bit they will appeal to their allies in Fark to reconsider peace with NSO, since peace between GOD and NSO was dependent on them to begin with. That is all I've got.
[/quote]
You've never spoken with Xiphosis, have you?